Playoff Rankings!!!

Dbsmithegg83":1fr3fstk said:
I stayed off here prior to the game to avoid all the drama and I thought it would be ok to give kudos to Geneva on a great season and Harvest on a good one. Guess I was wrong.
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Dbsmith, you weren't wrong-just a little off base. I don't doubt that your intentions are honorable, but do you not see that you allude to unfairness in the same breath (thread) that you congratulate? Do you not see that as taking away from the accomplishments by Geneva? Insinuating that they significantly outnumbered Watauga as some sort of unfairness says that Geneva won on an uneven playing ground. Untrue and inappropriate. And...believe me, "unhappiest winners" could not be further from the truth if you had mingled with the fans, coaches, and players following the game. A mixture of relief, excitement, exuberance, pride, and a sense of awesome accomplishment all wrapped into one represented a whole heck of a lot of happiness. Then, within a couple hours, you allude to an unlevel playing field.

By the way, I do not know Da.Man.Fan, but I'm pretty sure he is impartial.

Finally, you obviously do not know GSB very well. He is one of the most genuine, passionate coaches in the game who was drawn back into coaching this year due to a late coaching vacancy. The coach that left has been missed, but what an outstanding job GSB did in his return! He is in private school athletics for all the right reasons and he is standing by GSB's accomplishments with no apologies. Geneva is blessed to have him. I like your passion, DB, but it is misdirected...just as GSB mentioned...focus on moving Watauga down, but let Geneva enjoy the fruits of victory! We can all go back and forth in an intended to be fun forum talking about winning and losing, but in the whole scheme of things, the ultimate victory was won a couple thousand years ago.
 
Can you guys really keep this up for the next 8 months. TAPPS 6 man football is over. Congratulations to all the teams that won and to the teams that made the playoffs.

Loveofthegame is correct or at least close. I've never researched it but I've heard its student enrollment or boys enrollment which I'm sure is an exact science. NOT.

Seems like Smith has made apologies for us losing our minds during awards.

I am tied to Harvest and will also offer my apologies. We never intended to show any disrespect to Boerne or their fans during awards. It was all new to us and we were excited and caught up in the moment. Timing was bad on our part. We as fans and parents just were trying to show our support to our boys who were disappointed after losing. We wanted them to know that they should hold their heads up after a tough loss. Its a chant that the boys have been doing all year to make the fans feel like part of the team.

As far as the rest of the banter I'm staying out of that. Seems pointless to hurl accusations, or attempt to levy insults about lack of knowledge about the game or to attack someones character.

My sons created memories that will last me a lifetime what do I to be unhappy about? Keep in mind my boys lost.
 
Honestly it seems that I've struck a nerve which leads me to believe that you saw the discrepancy in number of kids between the two sidelines, but don't want to admit that it was obvious. I'm not taking anything away from Geneva for winning State. They played great. Sometimes things get lost in translation via written word but You guys sure do like pointing out I don't know anything. I don't know football programming I don't know Geneva Program and I don't know GSB. All correct but the numbers that show maybe they lie maybe they don't. Take that up with TAPPS. I think in my original statement I said I didn't understand why the size difference was so apparent. It was an observation that I meant to ask in the form of a question. Not to get attacked.

I had no idea who had what numbers but since I didn't know anything I've did some research and found that you guys do have the numbers to play 11 man and that Harvest should consider playing in the proper classification by moving down. I've already said that its either TAPPS or maybe even Harvest. I never said it was Geneva.

Oh but wait what do I know?

Geez
 
We are in DIII now, I think TAPPS has a 2 year or more swing in there evaluation. When we won state in 2010 we had 22 players, in DII, far out numbering our opponents. Last year we could not field a team this year we had 8. The swing in private schools is fast. That is why when you see a year after year champion like Freddy or what used to be Greenville, thats a special program. Time will tell which is which. But numbers do make a difference. As a famous rapper once said "These are the breaks".
 
Box Dad":1oiib16m said:
As a famous rapper once said "These are the breaks".
Click to expand...

Well put, or...

"Them's the breaks,"
"That's how the cookie crumbles,"
"That's life,"
'That's reality,"
"That's the way the ball bounces,"

...any more?
 
I believe you'll see at least three D1 programs moving into TAPPS 11-man in the 2016-2018 realignment.

Dallas Covenant and Boerne Geneva are already playing 11 man junior high schedules.

I've also heard Rockwall Heritage is looking at the move for varsity (remaining 6 man at JH because of class and practice schedules).

I've always said you need to be able to consistently turn out numbers for football in the high 20s or better yet, low 30s to have a high school 11-man program. The worst thing you can be is in a state where you Ping-Pong back and forth between 6 and 11 man, as you can't successfully build a program at either level.

And part of the issue of numbers is the commitment of the school and the students to support ALL the athletic programs. There are schools with low numbers who have problems turning out enough boys to play 6 man football, but have long benches for basketball and baseball teams.
 
I would like to say from my perspective, I had no idea what Watauga was doing after they received their medals. I could not hear their band and they were certainly not a distraction for the Geneva coaches and players on the field. We were happy and enjoying the moment and our fans. This was not ever a topic of discussion by the players and coaches after the game and I didn't even know about it until reading it on this post. I can imagine it could have been a distraction for our fans as they were facing the Watauga stands; however, I hope our fans will understand that there is not a lot of practice for what to do at the state game, and there are a lot of individuals who the coaches have no control over who can do things like start up the band or start a chant in the stands. I am sure it was not meant as any disrespect to Geneva and was just a group of people trying to show their support for their team after a disappointing loss.

As for the 11-man issue, I don't understand why you would conclude I am bitter. You have presented an opinion and conclusion about our program that I believe is uninformed and I wanted to get facts out there. I believe no prudent AD would create a varsity 11-man team with 3 seniors, 5 juniors, 5 sophomores, and 9 freshmen (the TAPPS roster showed all boys who had signed up at the beginning of the year, and did not take into account those who did not continue with the team). What you cannot do is add up these numbers and conclude that each number is a player ready for varsity football play. When you have freshmen playing with seniors, you still have to manage drills and practice in a way that prevents upper-classmen from hitting the younger players. You cannot manage that in a varsity game. We do our best to get our freshmen and sophomores playing time in a JV schedule where they are usually playing other freshmen and sophomores. Our JV played I think just 4 JV games this year against FEAST, Water Valley, Medina, Emory-Weiner. We had more scheduled, but several were canceled because the JV teams did not make at many schools. We also played our JV boys almost exclusively in two of our varsity games where our opponents were down in numbers or talent, and we felt our JV kids could compete safely. I think playing roughly 12 boys at varsity games and 10-12 underclassmen at JV games, with a few kids being floaters on both rosters, is what a program should do if when they have these numbers and an underclassmen-heavy roster. It would make no sense to me to ask freshmen to be key contributors on a varsity 11-man football team.
 
I've always said luck goes a long way in to winning championships. It is not Geneva's fault that they have the numbers this year. I was not attacking Geneva. But some of you have gotten very defensive about a simple observation. As GSB has pointed out TAPPS used a roster from the beginning of the year. I will not argue that with him I am not in the know as has been pointed out time after time. All programs have kids quit during the year part of football. I have no idea if Harvest had any quit during the year I'm sure they did it always happens, but they listed 3 freshman on their roster who probably didn't play either.

Box dad says they won state with 22 players in DII. Again making a point that maybe Harvest should drop down. Finally I agree with Kee them are the breaks Geneva DID NOT do anything wrong for the last time.

If freeagent is right and 3 DI including Geneva are playing an 11 man junior high schedule with a vision of moving up after next year then why obviously I'm not far off base saying or as uninformed as GSB likes to think. When I said that Geneva has 11 man numbers obviously you think you do as well, again I am going off TAPPS roster numbers. some teams made the playoffs in 11 man DIII with those numbers. I'm guessing some were freshman.

Geneva has the benefit of having numbers to have a JV team. Harvest I think has 1 High School team because of lack of numbers. If I'm wrong any harvest dads can correct me. So Geneva has the advantage over smaller programs like Harvest and several others developing players I agree.

Katy had smaller and similar numbers to Harvest. Austin Hill had similar or smaller numbers than Harvest. I will get off the Harvest band wagon since your anger seems to directed at Harvest. Maybe numbers lie. But seems like a huge advantage that you're not willing to admit. Maybe they all 3 need to drop down that is a decision that TAPPS should consider. Its not Geneva's fault.

Bitter because you and others on here don't seem happy beating up on smaller teams I guess. And you begin making attacks on my lack of knowledge. And that's ok if it makes you feel better. And then some of you attack the Harvest fans for cheering their boys on during awards while I've admitted that was not cool on their part. At least one dad on here apologized for that. Then you bring up taping or something. You guys could not accept a heartfelt congrats. Harvest lost and they don't seem bitter. I've never said anything bad about Geneva or Harvest go back and look. I gave them both props on a wonderful season. Sorry Harvest but you guys are to small and need to drop down so I can find another underdog team to out for. To small to compete at this level? Maybe this will deflect some of the anger from the Geneva fans and you guys can attack me in a similar fashion.

Thought this was Christian school football?
 
C'mon, Db...it's time to move on. Granger says it best on another thread when it comes to someone being outspoken and someone being offended (see "Thanks" under "six-man football talk")

granger":2q8tfqzn said:
I've tried to sit by the sidelines and watch this play itself out.... these things usually do.

Here are a few thoughts:

1. Don't tell people to shut the hell up (that's not necessary)
2. Don't come in and expect everyone to agree with you
3. Wear some thick skin, this is a message board
4. Don't expect everyone to be as smart as you

Listen, I really appreciate all of you. You are all old enough to behave, but also old enough not to go crying if someone doesn't agree with you or hurts your feelings. Yes, people get out of line, but when they do, they usually look like asses.

Bottom line, this is a message board for six-man football fans. If you need a refresher on where the word fan comes from, read this from Wikipedia

Merriam-Webster, the Oxford dictionary and other sources define it as a shortened version of the word fanatic. The word first become popular in reference to baseball enthusiasts. (Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1550, means "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion". It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning "insanely but divinely inspired". The word originally pertained to a temple or sacred place [Latin fanum, poetic English fane]. The modern sense of "extremely zealous" dates from around 1647; the use of fanatic as a noun dates from 1650.) However, the term "fancy" for an intense liking of something, while being of a different etymology, coincidentally carries a less intense but somewhat similar connotation to "fanatic". The word emerged as an Americanism around 1889.

yes, that happens here sometimes.

Now go talk about football or something
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Honestly, I do not understand where you are seeing any anger. I am providing you an explanation of the thought process that went into how we set up our program, and why we concluded that we did not have the numbers for an 11-man varsity program. You are correct that we are close to having the numbers for an 11-man varsity team, but the process of moving from 6-man to 11-man is a difficult and tricky one, and being close to having enough is not enough. There is a team in Watauga's district that is a year ahead of us in this process and they had a difficult time with it this season. As directors of these programs, we try to make these moves in responsible ways; and it would have been irresponsible in my opinion for Geneva to field an 11-man varsity team with 3 seniors and 5 juniors (one of whom only kicks extra points) on the entire roster. This is not the "year" you move to 11-man. I can see you thinking it is unfair that we have 21 kids on the sideline when Watauga has 14, but I'd say about half of the schools in DI have about 20 or more kids on the sideline, if they let their freshmen suit up like we do. When it came down to playing in the playoffs, we played some combination of 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 3 sophomores, and 2 freshmen. I just don't see the big advantage that you seem to see. We played plenty of schools that had all juniors and seniors on the field. One team in our district had 9 seniors.
 
Just wondering, based on examining their respective styles and particular phrases used, if "Dbsmith" is also posting from a Verizon Fios account.

Inquiring minds, etc
TexianDoc

(The following was emailed to me as I was posting this. I submit without comment, other than to say that I hadn't noticed the "GEEZ," until it was pointed out to me.)

"Is this the Caprock Kid? Good one "DB". Ha Ha. The jig is up. Stop using a private school alias and go back to harassing those true 6 man West Texas folks. Leave us 6A 11-man bullies alone. GEEZ"

--signed, friend of TexianDoc
 
Kee I was never trying to take anything away from anyone especially Geneva who had an outstanding season. GSB I wish you guys nothing but the very best moving forward you guys have an outstanding program. Keep doing a great job. I've conceded that maybe its Harvest who needs to move down. I saw several teams who had similar or larger numbers than you guys playing D1 6 man. I understand that its very tricky moving from 6 to 11 man. I get it and was just saying that I thought you guys were close to having the numbers to move up, maybe Harvest is closer to moving down. My intention was never to be critical of you or your program at all. You have that luxury of having kids who want to play and that's great.

I say angry and bitter because some responses begin hurling accusations and insults about fans and parents from the other school or my lack of knowledge. To do that seemed unnecessary. Almost as if offended you guys for trying to give the other team props. I never once implied that your group of boys or parents weren't. I was trying to stay positive in regards to behavior and character for all involved. Nothing more.
 
Dbsmithegg83":2tw6g0bj said:
Thought this was Christian school football?
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I usually hate it when people refer to one of their older posts, but given that little nugget from "DBsmith," my wife thought it would be appropriate to re-post something I'd said last year regarding Christian schools and their athletic programs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a father of three somewhat athletic children, here's what I want out of a school athletic program:

1. I want the program to teach my sons and daughter that strength is a Christian character trait that is only peripherally related to the size of your muscles, that honor is a private issue that usually shows itself publicly, that courage means being scared but doing it anyway, that loyalty can be invisible until it gets painful and that winning with grace is no less important than losing with it.
2. Their coaches should strive to do EVERYTHING IT TAKES to make them stronger, faster, smarter and better...without sacrificing the tiniest whiff of morality to do it - no gray areas, no corner-cutting, no loop-holes, no rationalizing.
3. They and their teammates must demonstrate leadership, commitment, and diligence while improving their speed, agility, strength and "brains," about whatever sport they're playing at the time. When (not if) they fail in applying their Christianity to their athletics, I want coaches who will re-train them as aggressively as if they had failed to make a tackle, a cross-court pass or a throw to home from center field.
4. If they win, I want them to KNOW that it's because of gifts they got from God and acknowledge that because they mean it - not because it's popular to say. When they lose, I want them to know that it's because they either made too many mistakes, took too much for granted or DIDN'T HAVE THE SUPERIOR SKILL SET ON THAT DAY IN THAT ARENA.
5. Being at a school that teaches from a Classical and Christian point-of-view, I expect coaches that are fully on board with the ideals of that philosophy: namely, that a strong mind and strong spirit in a strong body are the MINIMUM requirements for serving God.
6. Winning should be a measure of how well you are doing all of the above items: an increasingly successful program should mean the coaches are getting better at teaching, and the athletes are getting better at doing, all of the little and big things.

So, winning isn't the most important thing, but it serves a purpose.
Schools that lose because they don't have the athletes should not be ashamed (though a lot of heart can beat a lot of muscle).
Conversely, schools that win without honoring God are getting their accolades here and should expect no others.

TexianDoc

_________________________________________________________________

I can honestly say that Geneva's coaches and administration - from the AD, all the way down - fulfill all of the ideals that I had outlined above. They deserve all the credit for building a team of hard-working and talented FRIENDS, who play well together and will treasure this moment for the rest of their lives.
The lesson these boys get to learn from reading the posts on this forum will ALSO help build them into the men that GOD has already been developing them into.
TD
 
And it keeps on going. I think the message should be that they were all given a gift from god for having the ability to play a GAME. Not that they won because of God. The winner of a contest usually wins because they were better or better prepared. We all need to keep things in perspective. I'm not sure if you were trying to say that we at HCA are are winning without honoring God and getting our accolades here. Winning serves a purpose but so does overcoming adversity and relying on your faith to get us through the tough times. Lets all take the high road by honoring God, our families, friends and teammates. This discussion is not productive for anyone. Hope everyone has a wonderful Holidays.

Merry Christmas
 
Maroon, NOTHING in that post was written to denigrate WHCA: the post was originally written last year about Christian School hiring practices. I only re-posted it today in response to "Dbsmith" -- who is NOT affiliated with Watauga -- questioning the attitudes of "Christian" schools.

It's hard to have a conversation on-line, and it's made worse by the emotions of watching your kids win or lose. Unintended insults can be given...and can be heard even when they aren't made.

If you see your kids in my post, I hope it will be as an example of the RIGHT things that your program is doing. Because what I saw...and what my player-son confirmed...was a group of well-coached, Christian young men who out-performed everyone's expectations all season and played 13 great games. Watauga coaches and parents should be very proud of their kids and have nothing to be down about.

Congratulations to BOTH teams and good luck moving forward,
TexianDoc
 
Thank you Thank you Thank you for the clarification. You are right about emotions especially when it comes to ones family. Things get taken out of context and trying to explain ones position on a message board isn't always easy. Both communities should be thrilled with the season their teams just completed.

Happy Holidays
 
Amen is usually the last word, but just for clarification,
Maybe they all 3 need to drop down that is a decision that TAPPS should consider.
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I believer it is just a clear cut number of how many boys are AVAILABLE to play not the amount that do play, that is how you are set in the Divisions by TAPPS. Maybe someone said that, long posts, hard to read everything.
 
You are correct. TAPPS takes entire high school enrollment and boy-only numbers of each school in the fall and spring of the first year of a classification, then again in the fall of the second year of a classification period. They add the first two numbers to double the third number and divide by four for the entire school enrollment numbers and then do the same for the boy-only numbers. I believe they then they put all the schools in order from biggest to smallest and create classifications that will give roughly the same number of schools in each classification. Of course they now have numbers from over the years, so the ranges stay pretty much the same; but that is what I understand the process to be. They do the same thing with the boy-only numbers to come up with the various football classifications. This past year they added another classification level to 6-man. I don't recall the numbers for this current classification, but in years past the numbers were 0-30 boys was DII 6-man and 30-60 boys was DI.
 

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