The rankings in T*CAL mean alot to teams because of playoffs. I'm not one to complain about rankings but today I will. First off D1. How can a team who has never played a game (Dallas Jehovah Jireh Prep) be ranked number 3 with a 122.29 rating? In D2 how is Stephenville Faith number 5? No disrespect to them but they have a forfeit win and beat a 0-3 team. The only T*CAL team they played they lost to 48-0. By the way they also lost to a j.v. team. You also have a 0-2 Williamson County Home School and 1-3 Marshall Christian ahead of SA River City who is 3-1. Maybe someone can help me understand this.
T*CAL Rankings
- Thread starter spread14
- Start date
knightsfball
11-man fan
I'm assuming you are from River City, if not I'm sorry, and I understand how you can be frustrated with this deal. I'm from Stephenville Faith and you are correct by us beating a 0-3 team and a forfeit, and losing to a jv (by 1 point) and getting shut out 48-0 down in San Marcos. But from what I understand is how the rating works is form the begining of the season it takes the team with the harder schedule and puts their rating higer, if I am wrong at this I apologize and would like to know how the rating works. But if this is the case then you can see why we are rated so high, because we as a first year program have set up 4 UIL public school teams and can't help that Strawn J/V had to forfeit. I know that this can be frustrating but I just wanted to make sure that I knew why are rating was this way and hopefully you understand why we are rated this way. Good Luck on the rest of the season and God bless.
This is where I really feel sorry for TCAL teams. The rankings are always messed up. There is all kinds of things that really has no base for this year. How your team did last year will have an effect on your teams ranking this year. Later on in the season that should fix it self. However there are always questions about the rankings. I have seen it where you can beat a team and they are still ranked higher after you beat them. Now every other league the rankings dont matter, but like you said in TCAL the rankings do matter. The good thing is that you still have a playoff game. However the seeds do make a difference. Homefield advantage does make a difference. If my team was in TCAL I would be very concerned. Back in 2006 my team was in TCAL and they used a point system to determine the seeds for playoffs. I thought that was a way better way to do it.
Just because you put UIL schools on your schedule does not mean it is a strong schedule. Especially when we are talking about some of those teams being a j.v. team. I understand my good friend spread14 frustrations with this system. Not the rankings but the system TCAL is using. Knightsfball I don't think you are rated this high because of your schedule. I think you are rated that high because you are a new program. I say that because as I look at all the new programs in private sixman football it looks like they are all ranked higher than they should be.
OK gentlemen, let me help out here. All of the teams on this thread are DII teams. Win your district or come in second and you are in! Give the ratings another week or so and they will straighten out. I keep up with all the scores and how the rankings and ratings change. Though it is not perfect, it's very close!
Let me give you a good example! Three weeks back, Team A was picked to be 45ed by Team B. Team A ended up 45ing Team B. Team A moved up and Team B moved down. Team B then played Team C. Team B was picked to 45 Team C but only won by 12. Team B then moved down again and Team C moved up a few points. Team A then played team C and 45ed them. This caused both Team B and C to go down. Team C was ranked very low because of last years season (I think). I hope that made sense!
I agree with flyright. I believe that new teams somehow end up higher than they should be. Thats why we give the program 4 or 5 weeks to figure everyone out!
spread14, keep winning and beat the spreads and you will move up. Your game against CCA and SARC will determine you play off chances. I believe you will beat the spreads and have a very good chance of upsetting both teams. SMACC will help you by winning their district! Because of your close game with SMACC, if they win all their district games, this will benefit your team greatly. There is a chance that your district will send three teams. This will depend on how well the teams in your district finish out. SMACC needs to beat CCA to strengthen your district rating. CCA is currently on top and will be hard to move.
As far as TCAL DI, yes they will advance by ranking. Look at Waco Live Oak! They were at the bottom and have moved right on up. They have beat teams that were ranked higher (except for last week) beating the point spreads along the way. I will check with Granger to see what effect Jehovah Jireh has on the ratings.
Give the system another week or two. I can see the improvements all ready!
Blessings to all!
Let me give you a good example! Three weeks back, Team A was picked to be 45ed by Team B. Team A ended up 45ing Team B. Team A moved up and Team B moved down. Team B then played Team C. Team B was picked to 45 Team C but only won by 12. Team B then moved down again and Team C moved up a few points. Team A then played team C and 45ed them. This caused both Team B and C to go down. Team C was ranked very low because of last years season (I think). I hope that made sense!
I agree with flyright. I believe that new teams somehow end up higher than they should be. Thats why we give the program 4 or 5 weeks to figure everyone out!
spread14, keep winning and beat the spreads and you will move up. Your game against CCA and SARC will determine you play off chances. I believe you will beat the spreads and have a very good chance of upsetting both teams. SMACC will help you by winning their district! Because of your close game with SMACC, if they win all their district games, this will benefit your team greatly. There is a chance that your district will send three teams. This will depend on how well the teams in your district finish out. SMACC needs to beat CCA to strengthen your district rating. CCA is currently on top and will be hard to move.
As far as TCAL DI, yes they will advance by ranking. Look at Waco Live Oak! They were at the bottom and have moved right on up. They have beat teams that were ranked higher (except for last week) beating the point spreads along the way. I will check with Granger to see what effect Jehovah Jireh has on the ratings.
Give the system another week or two. I can see the improvements all ready!
Blessings to all!
knightsfball
11-man fan
Thank you for clarifying this, I 'm glad to know that rating has more to do with spreads then scheduling, that will make a difference in future years. Thanks again.
knightsfball
11-man fan
spread 14, just wondering why you decided to use that we beat a team that was 0-3 when two of the teams you have beat are that way and one is 1-3? just wondering, trying not to be rude or anything, but was just wanting to know why. Thanks
Let me start out by saying Flyright we are not good friends. I just kinda like you. Every since you picked us to lose last week our friendship is in question. Second I was not trying to throw Stephenvill Faith under the bus. Your team just was a good example of my point. By the way I am not from River City. I am at Sunnybrook. Sunnybrook is a good case for another point I saw on here. Last few years Sunnybrook was the worst team around. I knew we would start off at the bottom of the rankings. I had no problem with that as a matter of fact I was happy about it. Before the season started I told the Pastor of the church here that by week 3 the kids would learn the offesne and we would start something great. I think we did jsut that and will continue to do so. So with that being said I am not upset about where we are in the rankings. My point was about other teams who were ranked higher and they have not done anything to deserve their ranking. In the end it could really mess up a team who belong in the playoffs. It also makes me feel like I have to beat people by a certain amount of points to help myself as well as our district. Last Friday night we played John Paul II we were picked to lose by 19. We won 80-33. One of the guys holding the chain keep yelling at me about running up the score. I was then ask by a fan from our school why two of our starters played the whole game. Truth is I feel like I have to beat teams like this when I can to move up and make sure we get in the playoffs. I don't like doing it but I feel the need to do so. I think we have a good district and it will be a good gamke each week any of the teams play. I don't know how it will end up so we will just keep doing our part and trying to get better each week.
Oh yeah Flyright I am jk I love you dude. Keep picking us to loseI think it works out better for us. :lol: We are 45 point underdogs this week. SMH not going to happen. Good luck everyone
Oh yeah Flyright I am jk I love you dude. Keep picking us to loseI think it works out better for us. :lol: We are 45 point underdogs this week. SMH not going to happen. Good luck everyone
Correct me if I am wrong--
But I have heard that Granger's Rating/Ranking system works on a 'Degrees of Separation' process. Meaning the longer we play during the season, the more common opponents we all have, meaning we have a better understanding around week 7 of who should beat who and by how many.
Is this correct?
Is there a place where I can look at the break down of how he does it? Not to criticize, just curious.
But I have heard that Granger's Rating/Ranking system works on a 'Degrees of Separation' process. Meaning the longer we play during the season, the more common opponents we all have, meaning we have a better understanding around week 7 of who should beat who and by how many.
Is this correct?
Is there a place where I can look at the break down of how he does it? Not to criticize, just curious.
Thanks, Spread14, for bringing this up. I appreciate all of the work Granger and Co. do, but I'm with you. In District 1 this year, every game is going to count - no doubt about it. Non-conference/non-district games are now counting more than ever. Acknowledging that . . .
I'd like to know the explanation for why River City Christian has about the same power ranking number every week. If I didn't know any better, I would think that RCCS is some kind of median score and will stay that way. It has become THE team that destroys other teams' power rankings, but gets no reward for it. RCCS beats Believers' Academy and the spread, and they drop below RCCS - RCCS stays about the same. Tomball beats RCCS by 42 (the spread was 45 and TCHE was definitely trying to get the 45) and both Tomball and RCCS gain nothing by it. (That's somewhat understandable, but RCCS gets no reward for playing a bigger, better team and beating the spread?)
RCCS then beats Lutheran by 48-0 and RCCS actually drops by tenths of a point, while Lutheran goes to the bottom. Out in Houston, Tomball beats Living Stones by 32 and neither Tomball nor RCCS gets a boost from the win. A team that is 3-1 and beats three TAPPS teams (two of which were ranked higher than RCCS at some point) is now ranked 11th out of 16 teams in T-CAL Division II, behind SIX teams that have records of .500 or worse. Then the teams that play RCCS and lose end up on the bottom of the rankings, while other teams with equally bad records stay put. What gives?
Just for "grins," I pulled up the MaxPreps rankings this morning. I don't know how their system works, but my guess is that their system is also intended to be objective. Compare the results:
SixManFootball.com:
1 Corpus Christi Annapolis
2 Bastrop Tribe Consolidated
3 San Marcos Homeschool
4 Tyler King's Academy
5 Bryan Christian Homeschool
6 Stephenville Faith
7 Decatur Wise County Home School
8 Cleburne Christian Academy
9 Williamson County Home School
10 Marshall Christian Academy
11 SA River City
12 SA Sunnybrook
13 Greenville Phoenix
14 Humble Christian Life
15 Boerne Vanguard
16 Bell County Central Texas Christian Home School
MaxPreps.com:
1 Corpus Christi Annapolis
2 San Marcos Homeschool
3 River City Christian
4 Tyler King's Academy
5 Bastrop Tribe Consolidated
6 SA Sunnybrook Christian
7 Wise County Christian Homeschool
8 Marshall Christian Academy
9 Cleburne Christian Academy
10 Stephenville FAITH
11 BVCHEA Homeschool
12 Vanguard Christian
13 Bell County Homeschool
14 Phoenix Charter
15 Humble Christian Life
16 Williamson County Homeschool
If both systems are objective, then how do you get a significant discrepancy between the two? And why is it River City Christian and Sunnybrook Christian that are the only ones pushed down the list? Keep in mind that MaxPreps.com has all of the stats as required by T-CAL rules, just like Granger.
I am sure that this is NOT some attempt to discriminate against RCCS or Sunnybrook by any means. However, I think it indicates there are some problems inside the system. I think that MaxPreps.com does their system right by not giving power rating scores until a team has played three games. There's a reason the NCAA BCS football system waits as well. They also don't give teams a "starting score," which appears to be the core problem here.
Again, I'm with Spread14 on the spirit of what's being caused here. I don't like the fact that now T-CAL Division II teams that think they could be "on the bubble" at the end of the season (read: District 1 teams) are now going to have to be concerned about point spreads and the like. What this means is these teams are going to appear like they are running up the score, when all they are trying to do is protect their position in the playoffs. I've seen it on the middle school level here in San Antonio and it was a bad, bad deal with negative results.
I think someone from T-CAL may need to look at the MaxPreps.com system and see if there are facets to that system that could be used in the current one. Otherwise, a team that is deserving to be in the playoffs will miss out in place of one that was perceived to be better than they are.
And, again, I appreciate Granger's work. I am sure he did his system for "entertainment purposes only." He probably never intended it to ultimately determine a team's destiny.
Sorry for the long post . . .
I'd like to know the explanation for why River City Christian has about the same power ranking number every week. If I didn't know any better, I would think that RCCS is some kind of median score and will stay that way. It has become THE team that destroys other teams' power rankings, but gets no reward for it. RCCS beats Believers' Academy and the spread, and they drop below RCCS - RCCS stays about the same. Tomball beats RCCS by 42 (the spread was 45 and TCHE was definitely trying to get the 45) and both Tomball and RCCS gain nothing by it. (That's somewhat understandable, but RCCS gets no reward for playing a bigger, better team and beating the spread?)
RCCS then beats Lutheran by 48-0 and RCCS actually drops by tenths of a point, while Lutheran goes to the bottom. Out in Houston, Tomball beats Living Stones by 32 and neither Tomball nor RCCS gets a boost from the win. A team that is 3-1 and beats three TAPPS teams (two of which were ranked higher than RCCS at some point) is now ranked 11th out of 16 teams in T-CAL Division II, behind SIX teams that have records of .500 or worse. Then the teams that play RCCS and lose end up on the bottom of the rankings, while other teams with equally bad records stay put. What gives?
Just for "grins," I pulled up the MaxPreps rankings this morning. I don't know how their system works, but my guess is that their system is also intended to be objective. Compare the results:
SixManFootball.com:
1 Corpus Christi Annapolis
2 Bastrop Tribe Consolidated
3 San Marcos Homeschool
4 Tyler King's Academy
5 Bryan Christian Homeschool
6 Stephenville Faith
7 Decatur Wise County Home School
8 Cleburne Christian Academy
9 Williamson County Home School
10 Marshall Christian Academy
11 SA River City
12 SA Sunnybrook
13 Greenville Phoenix
14 Humble Christian Life
15 Boerne Vanguard
16 Bell County Central Texas Christian Home School
MaxPreps.com:
1 Corpus Christi Annapolis
2 San Marcos Homeschool
3 River City Christian
4 Tyler King's Academy
5 Bastrop Tribe Consolidated
6 SA Sunnybrook Christian
7 Wise County Christian Homeschool
8 Marshall Christian Academy
9 Cleburne Christian Academy
10 Stephenville FAITH
11 BVCHEA Homeschool
12 Vanguard Christian
13 Bell County Homeschool
14 Phoenix Charter
15 Humble Christian Life
16 Williamson County Homeschool
If both systems are objective, then how do you get a significant discrepancy between the two? And why is it River City Christian and Sunnybrook Christian that are the only ones pushed down the list? Keep in mind that MaxPreps.com has all of the stats as required by T-CAL rules, just like Granger.
I am sure that this is NOT some attempt to discriminate against RCCS or Sunnybrook by any means. However, I think it indicates there are some problems inside the system. I think that MaxPreps.com does their system right by not giving power rating scores until a team has played three games. There's a reason the NCAA BCS football system waits as well. They also don't give teams a "starting score," which appears to be the core problem here.
Again, I'm with Spread14 on the spirit of what's being caused here. I don't like the fact that now T-CAL Division II teams that think they could be "on the bubble" at the end of the season (read: District 1 teams) are now going to have to be concerned about point spreads and the like. What this means is these teams are going to appear like they are running up the score, when all they are trying to do is protect their position in the playoffs. I've seen it on the middle school level here in San Antonio and it was a bad, bad deal with negative results.
I think someone from T-CAL may need to look at the MaxPreps.com system and see if there are facets to that system that could be used in the current one. Otherwise, a team that is deserving to be in the playoffs will miss out in place of one that was perceived to be better than they are.
And, again, I appreciate Granger's work. I am sure he did his system for "entertainment purposes only." He probably never intended it to ultimately determine a team's destiny.
Sorry for the long post . . .
The bottom line is that rankings are to give us something to talk about. They should not be used to determine playoffs. If college football has controversy with thier billion dollar system, how do you think some guys personal system is gonna work. I dont care how many games you play. The rankings will never be right.
I'll get into a bit of this... First off, I have made a few changes to the rankings since this morning. 1) I removed Dallas Jireh 2) some of the schools, especially Stephenville Faith have been adjusted. The reason for this was the need to remember tying in the JV team to their varsity. I had forgotten to fix the JVs over the past two weeks and need to get that worked out. I want to that the people of this board for reminding me on both points.
Next. In response to the above post, you cannot compare what you saw last week to this week. The entire year has been reworked using the ratio adjustments I have bee retooling. Based on the number of teams a few of the ratios had to be adjusted. I knew the fixes had to be done, but waited until this weekend to implement them.
Now, as far as the rankings go, let me sort out a few things.... the system can only work with the information it is given. People seem to be honing in on River City and Stephenville Faith. Let's take a closer look at those.
River City is 3-1, Stephenville Faith is 2-2 (1 via a forfeit) if you dig deeper you see that the three wins for RC are teams ranked in the Bottom 10 out of 251 teams and are a combined 1-10 (New Life, Believers and Lutheran have an average rating of about -15). Stephenville Faith has played a couple of newer schools and two JVs.
Not a whole lot to tell here for either. It will sort itself out as games are played... play the games and people will go where they need to be.
BTW, I don't determine a team's destiny.... they do.
Next. In response to the above post, you cannot compare what you saw last week to this week. The entire year has been reworked using the ratio adjustments I have bee retooling. Based on the number of teams a few of the ratios had to be adjusted. I knew the fixes had to be done, but waited until this weekend to implement them.
Now, as far as the rankings go, let me sort out a few things.... the system can only work with the information it is given. People seem to be honing in on River City and Stephenville Faith. Let's take a closer look at those.
River City is 3-1, Stephenville Faith is 2-2 (1 via a forfeit) if you dig deeper you see that the three wins for RC are teams ranked in the Bottom 10 out of 251 teams and are a combined 1-10 (New Life, Believers and Lutheran have an average rating of about -15). Stephenville Faith has played a couple of newer schools and two JVs.
Not a whole lot to tell here for either. It will sort itself out as games are played... play the games and people will go where they need to be.
BTW, I don't determine a team's destiny.... they do.
TCAL leadership reviews both sixmanfootball.com and maxpreps.com daily. TCAL has spent hours upon hours trying to accommodate and do what's right for the different programs that have joined our great league. It was said by many that it would never work, bringing in the home schools and charter schools. It has worked and will continue to work! There will always be challenges and unhappy people no matter what we do. We (TCAL) believe in what we are accomplishing and are constantly working on improving the structure of our league.
Only DI is determined by the PRS (Power Ranking System). A perfect example is Tomball Home School. They are a great bunch of folks who gladly moved up when their enrollment doubled in just a few months. Had we stuck with DI district play, Tomball would not have been able to take in the new students who desired to play our great game. TCAL will re-evaluate every year and make decisions that are best for everyone. As we continue to grow, it will be easier to place teams accordingly, hopefully one day in three divisions!
As far as Grangers ranking system, I believe it is by far the most accurate out of the two. Not because my team is ranked higher! It's because I have seen how it always plays out at the end of the season. My team always starts at the bottom or very close to the bottom and the ratings have never effected our team in the post season in any way! By the way, not everyone uses max preps!
Keep up the good work Granger! Thanks for all that you do!
Only DI is determined by the PRS (Power Ranking System). A perfect example is Tomball Home School. They are a great bunch of folks who gladly moved up when their enrollment doubled in just a few months. Had we stuck with DI district play, Tomball would not have been able to take in the new students who desired to play our great game. TCAL will re-evaluate every year and make decisions that are best for everyone. As we continue to grow, it will be easier to place teams accordingly, hopefully one day in three divisions!
As far as Grangers ranking system, I believe it is by far the most accurate out of the two. Not because my team is ranked higher! It's because I have seen how it always plays out at the end of the season. My team always starts at the bottom or very close to the bottom and the ratings have never effected our team in the post season in any way! By the way, not everyone uses max preps!
Keep up the good work Granger! Thanks for all that you do!
I agree 32! TCAL and TCAF should join together. However, there are several things that would need to happen for the two to merge.
1. Forget the past!
2. Agree on the home school and charter school involvement! :shock:
3. Put people in leadership that refuse failure and that are in one accord! :idea:
In my opinion, these three are the big ones. I have visited with TCAF and TCAL coaches that would like to merge together. It's the people at the top that make those decisions. This is a great time to start talking about joining our efforts! TCAL will continue to grow in the years to come. We have several things in place to reach out to those who will never be excepted in TAPPS or the current TCAF. If you haven't noticed, TCAL has doubled in size the past year and will hopefully hit the 80 school mark this spring.
As I have said many times on this site, the Texas Christian Athletic League is not in composition with other leagues nor are we trying to recruit schools from TCAF. We at TCAL pray blessings over TCAF and TAPPS and know that they serve a great purpose in our state. It is a shame that at least the two that have a "C" in their name aren't doing what they should to join together (just my opinion!)
TCAL is very dear to me and our school/organization. Though they are not batting 1000 at everything, we are working very hard to improve in the areas we are lacking in. I feel that TCAF would only improve those efforts and help give both/one organization a better foundation to serve others in the name of Christ! God will bless the coming together of His people!
1. Forget the past!
2. Agree on the home school and charter school involvement! :shock:
3. Put people in leadership that refuse failure and that are in one accord! :idea:
In my opinion, these three are the big ones. I have visited with TCAF and TCAL coaches that would like to merge together. It's the people at the top that make those decisions. This is a great time to start talking about joining our efforts! TCAL will continue to grow in the years to come. We have several things in place to reach out to those who will never be excepted in TAPPS or the current TCAF. If you haven't noticed, TCAL has doubled in size the past year and will hopefully hit the 80 school mark this spring.
As I have said many times on this site, the Texas Christian Athletic League is not in composition with other leagues nor are we trying to recruit schools from TCAF. We at TCAL pray blessings over TCAF and TAPPS and know that they serve a great purpose in our state. It is a shame that at least the two that have a "C" in their name aren't doing what they should to join together (just my opinion!)
TCAL is very dear to me and our school/organization. Though they are not batting 1000 at everything, we are working very hard to improve in the areas we are lacking in. I feel that TCAF would only improve those efforts and help give both/one organization a better foundation to serve others in the name of Christ! God will bless the coming together of His people!
The problem is I know what the C stands for in TCAF but I am not sure if it stands for charter or christian in TCAL. How can ou be a christian league whe you have non-chrisatian schools in it? I don't have a problem with TCAL allowing charter & home schools but if you're going to do so maybe you should change your name to TCCHSAL. Kinda long but I am sure it will work.
I am not trying to be funny but I am sure this is why alot of schools will not join TCAL.
I am not trying to be funny but I am sure this is why alot of schools will not join TCAL.
Coach, with all do respect, should we ask the people who don't believe in Jesus, not to enter the church? TCAL is a Christian league which also makes it a ministry. We can agree to disagree on this topic, only making my point that Jesus Himself said "love your neighbor as yourself". Jesus did not conform nor did He separate, He was relevant to those around Him.
If a christian schools only reason not to come into TCAL is that we allow charter schools...no comment. And you are right Coach, TCAL is not for everyone!
By the way folks, many charter schools were at one time christian schools who could not make it on tuition. I have a dear friend who coaches at a charter school and he and his bunch are christians who are happy to be in TCAL.
Please don't take my comments in the wrong way. I respect everyones views and opinions and I am very aware that it know that it takes all kind of people to make this world go around! Only God can change mens hearts! Not coachbill!
Have a good day!
If a christian schools only reason not to come into TCAL is that we allow charter schools...no comment. And you are right Coach, TCAL is not for everyone!
By the way folks, many charter schools were at one time christian schools who could not make it on tuition. I have a dear friend who coaches at a charter school and he and his bunch are christians who are happy to be in TCAL.
Please don't take my comments in the wrong way. I respect everyones views and opinions and I am very aware that it know that it takes all kind of people to make this world go around! Only God can change mens hearts! Not coachbill!
Have a good day!
I agree with you christians should reach out to others. BUT I don't think allowing them to play in TCAL is the way.If they are going to allow it they schould put them in there on class. I am not trying to get in a debate or cause any problems. I just look at the number of christian schools in TCAL and think it could be so much more if the charter and home schools were not in with them.
freeagent
Six-man pro
the_coach":2607llu0 said:
I love my good brother Billy, but the inclusion of charter schools and home schools in T-CAL may become a problem over time. But right now, at least the league offers both of those groups an umbrella for competition and the accountability of a league (elgibility, academics).
It may be a problem they will have to deal with at a future date. And Billy and I have had that discussion and I wish them well.
TAPPS definitely has no interest in charter schools and I was on the losing side of the home school participation issue several years ago (and kinda predicted the increase in home school sports teams based on that decision) and a number of those schools (especially in TCAF) withdrew from TAPPS to join that league and there are some issues there. From what I've heard from my TAPPS leadership friends, they look at TCAF and T-CAL as leagues that need to exist for those schools that are unable or unwilling to participate in a "true" high school fashion and that both of those leagues priovide a needed outlet for those schools.
A TCAF/T-CAL combination makes sense, but I'm not sure that TCAF wants to go as deep into home school and charter school participation as T-CAL has done.. Both fill a niche in school extracirccicular participation needs.
