Newcastle #2 in DII?

[51eleven]

I can hear the screaming, gnashing of teeth, someone yelling "your nutty as a fruitcake" (Merry Christmas to you all too). I realize the final rankings are based on rating, strength of schedule, won-loss record and?
I know they lost to overall #7 Jonesboro early in the season by 12 and almost lost to # 75 Gold-Burg in a shootout in district only winning by 4, 78-74. Then they lost in the second round of the playoff's. They ended up ranked # 44 overall and # 11 in DII.
So where would I get such a crazy idea? Some will remember they were bumped out of the playoff's in the second round by Benjamin. Benjamin 45'd everybody they played, except Newcastle. #7 Jayton put up 40 point's on Benjamin, before being 45'd, the most of anybody all season including Oglesby in the state game, except Newcastle. Who more than doubled Jayton's output with 84 points scored on Benjamin. Newcastle was also the only team all season to give Benjamin a full game, loosing to them by 28, 112-84. I've read NC missed 13 or 14 extra points. I.E., if, if, if (if if's and butt's were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas), if they had made them all they would have lost by 2 or been tied and went into overtime. So, bottom line they are the only ones to put up anywhere close to that many points on Benjamin, the only team to play them this year and not get 45'd or play them a whole game.

 

[SixManNewb]

I can hear the screaming, gnashing of teeth, someone yelling "your nutty as a fruitcake" (Merry Christmas to you all too). I realize the final rankings are based on rating, strength of schedule, won-loss record and?
I know they lost to overall #7 Jonesboro early in the season by 12 and almost lost to # 75 Gold-Burg in a shootout in district only winning by 4, 78-74. Then they lost in the second round of the playoff's. They ended up ranked # 44 overall and # 11 in DII.
So where would I get such a crazy idea? Some will remember they were bumped out of the playoff's in the second round by Benjamin. Benjamin 45'd everybody they played, except Newcastle. #7 Jayton put up 40 point's on Benjamin, before being 45'd, the most of anybody all season including Oglesby in the state game, except Newcastle. Who more than doubled Jayton's output with 84 points scored on Benjamin. Newcastle was also the only team all season to give Benjamin a full game, loosing to them by 28, 112-84. I've read NC missed 13 or 14 extra points. I.E., if, if, if (if if's and butt's were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas), if they had made them all they would have lost by 2 or been tied and went into overtime. So, bottom line they are the only ones to put up anywhere close to that many points on Benjamin, the only team to play them this year and not get 45'd or play them a whole game.

“Second place is just the first loser.”​

― Dale Earnhardt

 

[Zebra Watcher]

I can hear the screaming, gnashing of teeth, someone yelling "your nutty as a fruitcake" (Merry Christmas to you all too). I realize the final rankings are based on rating, strength of schedule, won-loss record and?
I know they lost to overall #7 Jonesboro early in the season by 12 and almost lost to # 75 Gold-Burg in a shootout in district only winning by 4, 78-74. Then they lost in the second round of the playoff's. They ended up ranked # 44 overall and # 11 in DII.
So where would I get such a crazy idea? Some will remember they were bumped out of the playoff's in the second round by Benjamin. Benjamin 45'd everybody they played, except Newcastle. #7 Jayton put up 40 point's on Benjamin, before being 45'd, the most of anybody all season including Oglesby in the state game, except Newcastle. Who more than doubled Jayton's output with 84 points scored on Benjamin. Newcastle was also the only team all season to give Benjamin a full game, loosing to them by 28, 112-84. I've read NC missed 13 or 14 extra points. I.E., if, if, if (if if's and butt's were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas), if they had made them all they would have lost by 2 or been tied and went into overtime. So, bottom line they are the only ones to put up anywhere close to that many points on Benjamin, the only team to play them this year and not get 45'd or play them a whole game.

You may be onto something. Stats don't lie.

 

[Dale Miller]

You may be onto something. Stats don't lie.

Nope, stats tell the absolute truth. Because I can twist and cherry pick to make stats prove any given point.

 

[Zebra Watcher]

Nope, stats tell the absolute truth. Because I can twist and cherry pick to make stats prove any given point.

You can't tell me 51eleven doesn't have a few valid points. In the sports world we live in, being the only team that Benjamin didn't 45, Newcastle could be considered State Runner-Up.

 

[SixManNewb]

You may be onto something. Stats don't lie.

Stats absolutely lie, especially in six man. The only stat that doesn’t is wins. I’m not saying Newcastle is not number two. I’m just saying stats don’t come close to telling the whole story. You may be talking about wins and losses and strength of schedule. Those are certainly more reliable than individual stats.

 

[Dale Miller]

You can't tell me 51eleven doesn't have a few valid points. In the sports world we live in, being the only team that Benjamin didn't 45, Newcastle could be considered State Runner-Up.

I had a discussion with a South Dakota buddy on how the Texas bracket can sometimes cause the 2 "best" teams to meet in the early rounds. The loser is not the state runner up.

 

[Dale Miller]

You can't tell me 51eleven doesn't have a few valid points.

BTW, for a late blooming 6-Man fan, 51eleven knows the game pretty well. Even if he is a Strawn guy....

 

[Zebra Watcher]

Stats absolutely lie, especially in six man. The only stat that doesn’t is wins. I’m not saying Newcastle is not number two. I’m just saying stats don’t come close to telling the whole story. You may be talking about wins and losses and strength of schedule. Those are certainly more reliable than individual stats.Stat

Stats are what make up our lives. Stats are how we decide rankings of teams on this information bank. There has to be a significant importance on stats.

 

[Zebra Watcher]

Strawn knows Stats.

 

[Dale Miller]

Stats are what make up our lives. Stats are how we decide rankings of teams on this information bank. There has to be a significant importance on stats.

Only a significant importance on stats is needed if the games are played on paper, not the field.

 

[SixManNewb]

Stats are what make up our lives. Stats are how we decide rankings of teams on this information bank. There has to be a significant importance on stats.

I’ve stated this before in other threads. Stats are skewed in six man because of the mercy rule. Personal experience in TAPPS D3…the south teams didn’t play a lick of defense. As a result of playing 4 quarters every week against terrible defenses, stats would tell you offenses in the south were as good or better than the north. Then when they faced each other in the final, the south champs scored half their average while the north scored a season high in points.

Individual stats are a joke too. Most teams have one kid monopolizing touches. Just using stats, you’d deduce that those kids were better than the kids on teams sharing touches. Anyone that watches the film would know that’s simply not the case.

So no…stats are not important in six man football. They’re just a way for teams who can’t win on the field to prop up their players.

 

[Tough Enough]

Newcastle would beat at least 5 teams ranked ahead of them easily. They lost 2 games all year.
State champs D2
State Semi finalist D1
That being said Rankings really do not mean anything. Just something to look at. They had a really solid team but met up Benjamin early. If you look at Klondike who only put up 4 points against Benjamin they are ranked a head of Jayton who beat them earlier in the year. The machine has the number 1 spots correct. Congratulations Benjamin and Gordon

 

[That1fan]

I can hear the screaming, gnashing of teeth, someone yelling "your nutty as a fruitcake" (Merry Christmas to you all too). I realize the final rankings are based on rating, strength of schedule, won-loss record and?
I know they lost to overall #7 Jonesboro early in the season by 12 and almost lost to # 75 Gold-Burg in a shootout in district only winning by 4, 78-74. Then they lost in the second round of the playoff's. They ended up ranked # 44 overall and # 11 in DII.
So where would I get such a crazy idea? Some will remember they were bumped out of the playoff's in the second round by Benjamin. Benjamin 45'd everybody they played, except Newcastle. #7 Jayton put up 40 point's on Benjamin, before being 45'd, the most of anybody all season including Oglesby in the state game, except Newcastle. Who more than doubled Jayton's output with 84 points scored on Benjamin. Newcastle was also the only team all season to give Benjamin a full game, loosing to them by 28, 112-84. I've read NC missed 13 or 14 extra points. I.E., if, if, if (if if's and butt's were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas), if they had made them all they would have lost by 2 or been tied and went into overtime. So, bottom line they are the only ones to put up anywhere close to that many points on Benjamin, the only team to play them this year and not get 45'd or play them a whole game.

I honestly believe they should be #2.... Rankings don't matter( remember Gordon's strength of schedule).... BUT Newcastle no matter what anyone says went the distance with the NIL Mustangs.... Dern autocorrect

 

[51eleven]

BTW, for a late blooming 6-Man fan, 51eleven knows the game pretty well. Even if he is a Strawn guy....

Thanks Dale, and Zebra too for your comment. I still can't claim to know it very well, I finally learned the difference between spread and tight. But Not the X's and o's, I can tell they are different formations when pointed out, but I can't tell you the difference in the Jaybird and O'Brien. I've been out of the loop on Strawn over a dozen years now having moved away.
I was just trying to give Newcastle a little recognition as being maybe a little better than some give them credit for, given their ranking. I didn't want to take anything away from Oglesby's accomplishment. That said, since Zebra mentioned "state runner up", I had the passing thought that in terms of competition Benjamin faced this was the biggest game they had all year. Did anyone else even take them to the 4th quarter before being 45'd? Maybe the only time the Mustang's sweated a little bit all year? Hey, we might not 45 them in the 3rd. Hey we better keep the hammer down in the 4th. They won by 28, probably not much sweat. Though nice to see GR & Co. have to work through a whole game once in the season. More than anyone can say about Gordon's opponents this year.

 

[Zebra Watcher]

I’ve stated this before in other threads. Stats are skewed in six man because of the mercy rule. Personal experience in TAPPS D3…the south teams didn’t play a lick of defense. As a result of playing 4 quarters every week against terrible defenses, stats would tell you offenses in the south were as good or better than the north. Then when they faced each other in the final, the south champs scored half their average while the north scored a season high in points.

Individual stats are a joke too. Most teams have one kid monopolizing touches. Just using stats, you’d deduce that those kids were better than the kids on teams sharing touches. Anyone that watches the film would know that’s simply not the case.

So no…stats are not important in six man football. They’re just a way for teams who can’t win on the field to prop up their players.

Then what information do we use to determine who is the best all-time player(s) and team(s)? Ethridge vs Rigdon vs Rameriez vs Miles? RS vs Throckmorton vs Strawn vs Fort Hancock? Like it or not, Stats give justification for this whole message board otherwise we are keyboard warriors yelling down a black hole.

 

[SixManNewb]

Then what information do we use to determine who is the best all-time player(s) and team(s)?

First and foremost wins (rings). If you’re not the best player on the best team, you’ve got no claim to that title. Grayson Rigdon is 45-0 in HS. Can you imagine if some kid whose team was barely over .500 but racked up insane yardage totals tried to claim he was better? He’d be a laughing stock. I’m a Texas Tech fan. Under Leach, we consistently had the nations passing leader…but nobody actually believed we had the best QB.

Outside of wins, you really have to look at the environment as a whole. How strong was the opposition? It’s one thing to run for 300 yards against a nobody and quite another to do it against a top 10 defense. If someone only wants to compare stat sheets, they’re either lazy or not very bright or have a personal agenda.

 

[Cowboy1234]

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics!!!

 

[Zebra Watcher]

Would you dare to say if Rigdon had stayed at Strawn, that he would be 45-0? If so, the kids in his grade would also be 45-0 with 3 three rings. Are they better than Ethridge? I venture to say no, so stats still make an argument for validity.
"Environment" is determined by the competitive nature of both teams (talent). Not everyone can be at every game to view the "environment", so we have to have stats to better understand the "environment" with context. I wouldn't call anyone lazy, dim, or biased who uses stats.
Its stats + context = reasoning.

 

[SixManNewb]

Would you dare to say if Rigdon had stayed at Strawn, that he would be 45-0? If so, the kids in his grade would also be 45-0 with 3 three rings. Are they better than Ethridge? I venture to say no, so stats still make an argument for validity.
"Environment" is determined by the competitive nature of both teams (talent). Not everyone can be at every game to view the "environment", so we have to have stats to better understand the "environment" with context. I wouldn't call anyone lazy, dim, or biased who uses stats.
Its stats + context = reasoning.

You're twisting my words to make it sound like you're refuting my point, but all you're doing is reiterating it. I clearly said best player best team, which Rigdon would have been if he'd stayed at Strawn. I also clearly said "only" when talking about stats.