UIL State Exec Committee to Meet on Rankin

[Jones26]

The UIL is a Political Body. Pure and simple. It is untouchable, uncontrollable, and without oversight, much like the FISA Court. You don’t have to believe me, but contact your elected legislator or State Senator and ask them what their experience, knowledge and opinion of the UIL is. The majority that have ever dealt with the UIL before will probably use the same word;
FRUSTRATION.
Go ahead, make a appointment and ask.

The UIL is run by the member schools and the superintendents of those schools. It is not a political body, which is the very reason senators and reps get frustrated with the UIL....they can't control it. I don't always agree with every ruling that they make, but I'm glad we are governed by them and not the government. That's why rules are in place, they are set by the schools. Schools need to follow those rules, and accept the consequences when they don't.

We do not want to be like other states where privates and publics participate for the same championships. If that were the case, you would really see what recruiting looks like.

All government is subjected to oversight, even the darn Federal Reserve. It's true that big government wants you to think there is no way around it, but there has to be given that, at the end of the day, the UIL gets its power from the legislature as an agency of the state.

As far as the guy that quoted Reagan, Ronald would agree that due process should be apart of any and all hearings held by the government whether it's impeaching the president or deciding if someone moved for athletic reasons.

This is false. The UIL exists only to provide competition between schools in a number of contests....period. It is not an agency of the state. But, I doubt my words will convince you, I was just hoping to clarify some things on this thread with facts about the UIL. Everyone have a Merry Christmas!

Then why can't I open my own UIL competitor? The government gives the UIL legitimacy. Merry Christmas, Coach!

Who says you can't? (and please don't say "the Government").

 

[Deleted member 21909]

You answered your own question....

 

[rainjacktx]

You answered your own question....

Show me any law even hinting that you can't start your own public school sports governing body. Ever heard of the THSRA? Evidently they haven't heard of any such law either.

Now, is it feasible to start an organization in direct competition with the UIL? Not at all. It's not the legalities of starting one up that will kill you. It's the incestuous cronyism you would have to overcome.

 

[Old Bearkat]

We do not want to be like other states where privates and publics participate for the same championships. If that were the case, you would really see what recruiting looks like.

Illinois is a perfect example of what you are thinking.

 

[LBK6manFan]

You answered your own question....

Show me any law even hinting that you can't start your own public school sports governing body. Ever heard of the THSRA? Evidently they haven't heard of any such law either.

Now, is it feasible to start an organization in direct competition with the UIL? Not at all. It's not the legalities of starting one up that will kill you. It's the incestuous cronyism you would have to overcome.

*well said rainjack! Could t have said it better. You are a legend on this site. Please keep commenting.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

You answered your own question....

Show me any law even hinting that you can't start your own public school sports governing body. Ever heard of the THSRA? Evidently they haven't heard of any such law either.

Now, is it feasible to start an organization in direct competition with the UIL? Not at all. It's not the legalities of starting one up that will kill you. It's the incestuous cronyism you would have to overcome.

You are trying to tell me the UIL doesn't get its power from the government!?!?

 

[smokeyjoe53]

Perhaps this will clarify how the UIL came to be:
“The University Interscholastic League was created by The University of Texas at Austin to provide leadership and guidance to public school debate and athletic teachers. Since 1910 the UIL has grown into the largest inter-school organization of its kind in the world. The UIL continues to operate as part of the University of Texas, under the auspices of the Vice President for Diversity & Community Engagement.
The UIL exists to provide educational extracurricular academic, athletic, and music contests. The initials UIL have come to represent quality educational competition administered by school people on an equitable basis.”

RJ, I think your example of THSRA is a great example of an alternative to such an all-encompassing organization such as the UIL. Maybe it is time to explore more ways to promote youth activities instead of imposing arbitrary “one size fits all” rules and regulations.
It appears to the layman that UIL Executive hearings are little more than formalities, the decision having already been decided.

 

[rainjacktx]

You are trying to tell me the UIL doesn't get its power from the government!?!?

I merely challenged you to find any law that says there can't be a competing governing body for public school athletics. I gave you an example of you being wrong on this whole "power from the government" thing.

I also think I was fairly clear in how governing bodies work. This "power" you refer to comes from member schools agreeing to the terms of membership in the UIL. UIL gets its power from the same place Facebook does - by consent.

Short of you citing chapter and verse the exact laws you are referring to when you say the UIL gets it's power from the government, your argument just doesn't hold any water.

 

[LBK6manFan]

You are trying to tell me the UIL doesn't get its power from the government!?!?

I merely challenged you to find any law that says there can't be a competing governing body for public school athletics. I gave you an example of you being wrong on this whole "power from the government" thing.

I also think I was fairly clear in how governing bodies work. This "power" you refer to comes from member schools agreeing to the terms of membership in the UIL. UIL gets its power from the same place Facebook does - by consent.

Short of you citing chapter and verse the exact laws you are referring to when you say the UIL gets it's power from the government, you're argument just doesn't hold any water.

* Dang Rainjack, you couldn't have it explained it any better. Much respect. I love it

 

[Jones26]

You answered your own question....

Sort of. I didn't give an answer, but you are correct, nobody is saying you can't go start your own league. There are already other competing leagues for schools (in fact, Granger ranks their teams if those leagues offer sixman football). Each league has their guidelines and rules to follow. The UIL has a Constitution and Contest Rules that has all the rules and consequences listed out. All of this is done without government input. The UIL does not get its power from the government, all power in the UIL lies in the member schools. School administrators wrote the rules long ago, and they are changed/added to every year by vote of all superintendents of member schools.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

While I am really really trying hard to be nice to you, I hope you never taught any social studies class.

Although I try not to spend a lot of time researching for sixmanfootball.com, I feel like I am going to teach you and many other people a lot of good social studies content. For that, I thank you for your ignorance.

I merely challenged you to find any law that says there can't be a competing governing body for public school athletics. I gave you an example of you being wrong on this whole "power from the government" thing.

No, there is no law that says a person cannot open a sports league for schools. This is a purely semantics argument, meaning that it really does not matter at the end of the day, because public schools (government institutions) play under the UIL that the Texas State Government created (more on this later) to govern public school athletics. In contrast, TAPPS (or any other governing body for private schools) does NOT have the force of the government behind them.

Can a public school join TAPPS (or any other governing body for private schools?) The answer is no because the government wants them playing under the UIL. Can a private school join the UIL? The answer is yes because TAPPS cannot force them to stay.

People, especially in this part of the United States, think Texas and/or all the Confederates States "had the right to secede from the union." Here the truth: if you can beat the government (like the United States did in the American Revolution) then your actions are "legal" while if you cannot beat the government, then your actions are illegal. This is the same reason why some objected to the government running healthcare; although you can choose not to pay a private business or not listen to them, the government can do things to keep you in line.

I also think I was fairly clear in how governing bodies work. This "power" you refer to comes from member schools agreeing to the terms of membership in the UIL. UIL gets its power from the same place Facebook does - by consent.

You basically described social contract theory, we [the people] give up power for essential needs, [establish domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, etc] but the Founders gave us the rights described in the Bill of Rights, particularly amendments 4-8, to balance against this power.

Short of you citing chapter and verse the exact laws you are referring to when you say the UIL gets it's power from the government, your argument just doesn't hold any water.

Have you ever looked at the UIL's website? Sheesh.

1. Created by the University of Texas in 1910 (last time I checked the University of Texas is part of the government)

https://ibb.co/dQwbzqj

2. The UIL posts budgetary and board minutes in the same way as a public school, TCEQ, the LCRA, a local government, a police department, etc. as required by the Open Records Act. (I used Garden City's similar posting to make my point, I hope Coach Jones doesn't mind.)

UIL: https://ibb.co/6szkqzT

Garden City: https://ibb.co/55k2rNw

3. The Commissioner of the Texas Education Agency appoints the State Executive Committee. The current commissioner, Mike Morath, was appointed by Governor Greg Abbott (I seem to remember his name on the ballot 2 years ago) at the end of 2015/2016. Citation: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ion+Agency.

https://ibb.co/QXPrm5m

4. The UIL has a section called "The UIL/TEA Side by Side" that I took a screenshot for you below.

https://ibb.co/VBY5gsw

Do I need to keep going? While I have no problem with the UIL and the government overseeing the sports, they need to follow the Bill of Rights. That's all I am trying to say here.

 

[rainjacktx]

I would put my knowledge of civics and the constitution up against anyone on here. There's no need to get snarky.

If you want to have a reasoned factual debate I am game. If you want to get into a snarky little insult contest - I can do that as well.

The fact is you have changed your position at least twice. You gave up on the constitutional thing, which was wise on your part. The you went to UIL gets its power from the government. I quite clearly and factually proved you wrong. Now you are saying that consent is a "social contract".

I would suggest you learn the actual meanings of words before misusing them so blatantly. Clicking an ' I agree to the TOS' button is an actual contract. Not a social contract. Signing a legal and binding membership agreement is not a social contract.

So maybe try again, and learn your subject matter a little more thoroughly next time.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

I would put my knowledge of civics and the constitution up against anyone on here. There's no need to get snarky.

If you want to have a reasoned factual debate I am game. If you want to get into a snarky little insult contest - I can do that as well.

The fact is you have changed your position at least twice. You gave up on the constitutional thing, which was wise on your part. The you went to UIL gets its power from the government. I quite clearly and factually proved you wrong. Now you are saying that consent is a "social contract".

I would suggest you learn the actual meanings of words before misusing them so blatantly. Clicking an ' I agree to the TOS' button is an actual contract. Not a social contract. Signing a legal and binding membership agreement is not a social contract.

So maybe try again, and learn your subject matter a little more thoroughly next time.

Can you read? I've been arguing that the Bill's of Rights should apply to the UIL since Landon got ruled ineligible last year. While my mommy told me not to be mean to people, hooked on phonics worked for me.

 

[rainjacktx]

Can you read? I've been arguing that the Bill's of Rights should apply to the UIL since Landon got ruled ineligible last year. While my mommy told me not to be mean to people, hooked on phonics worked for me.

I can read just fine. I think the problem is on your end. The bill of rights does not apply to the UIL, nor should they. The UIL is God, judge and jury. Neither your feelz, nor your mommy's parenting ability matter.

I don't like it as I think that top to bottom, the UIL is corrupt and far too centralized. And, as has been mentioned - the one-size-fits-all mentality is antithetical to us as Texans.

But just a little tidbit on Texas History - we absolutely had the right to secede during the civil war. I believe Texas was the only state in the Confederqacy who had that right as a condition for statehood. We supposedly ceded that right back to DC in order to rejoin afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

Can you read? I've been arguing that the Bill's of Rights should apply to the UIL since Landon got ruled ineligible last year. While my mommy told me not to be mean to people, hooked on phonics worked for me.

I can read just fine. I think the problem is on your end. The bill of rights does not apply to the UIL, nor should they. The UIL is God, judge and jury. Neither your feelz, nor your mommy's parenting ability matter.

I don't like it as I think that top to bottom, the UIL is corrupt and far too centralized. And, as has been mentioned - the one-size-fits-all mentality is antithetical to us as Texans.

But just a little tidbit on Texas History - we absolutely had the right to secede during the civil war. I believe Texas was the only state in the Confederqacy who had that right as a condition for statehood. We supposedly ceded that right back to DC in order to rejoin afterwards.

If I may, do you think applying the Bill of Rights to the UIL would help the situation? I think they are "too centralized" as well, I won't even say corrupt because I think they are pretty mean to everyone, because no one holds them accountable. In the most plain terms, the Bill of Righta keeps the government honest due to its extra power.

 

[MA1984]

This topic has gone so far over my head I’m just a football guy trying to be a football coach someday. I don’t really care about all the rest of that stuff. Learn the rules don’t break them simple solution. I don’t need to get into the Bill of rights to coach a game.

 

[MA1984]

To be honest both of you sound like you know what you are talking about in my opinion but like I said before way over my head.

 

[rainjacktx]

If I may, do you think applying the Bill of Rights to the UIL would help the situation? I think they are "too centralized" as well, I won't even say corrupt because I think they are pretty mean to everyone, because no one holds them accountable. In the most plain terms, the Bill of Righta keeps the government honest due to its extra power.

Not really. Given how litigious our society is, and how myopically ignorant some parents can be, if the UIL were apply the Bill of Rights, they would spend more time in court than they would doing their jobs.

I would not be opposed to having the UIL - and the TEA - under very strict oversight. The TEA is a tax dollar siphon and cares nothing about education. Same could be said about the UIL. I was listening to Cowboy do his state game broadcast, and they were forced to run these crap UIL ads in addition to paying a fee just to do their webcast. Much like The Federal Reserve, I want to see the UIL audited.

 

[FCSA football]

Like I said the UIL is a Political Organization. Appointments are not conducive or accepting of oversight. Any organization that is not held accountable by the public it “serves” becomes arrogant, belligerent and ultimately a “Star Chamber” to judge the “little people”.
As far as Tebow goes, I agree with his thought process. I’ll submit this for your consideration: Directly or indirectly the UIL has a Iron Grip and control on certain Public School expenditures. I’ll not argue this point with you but I will say this: Ultimately a challenge will arise that will put the UIL and its members on the defensive as to their rules and guidelines (dictates) as to how public schools spend public funds.
That’s when they will lose. While I don’t have a law degree, over the years I know I’ve paid for several.
If you don’t believe me, check out the political pressures that were exerted to effect the changes that benefited some SWC schools to the detriment of others. ( can you say T U ? ). As a result the current status quo of of the UIL will change. If they don’t change, they ultimately will be replaced. That’s just a fact of living today. Change or become extinct. There used to be a PVIL, it had a special purpose, but it’s gone. Change or perish, change or become extinct, nothing lasts forever. The UIL can change or become extinct. First and foremost they have to WANT to change. I don’t see that happening.

Just saying........

 

[Deleted member 21909]

If I may, do you think applying the Bill of Rights to the UIL would help the situation? I think they are "too centralized" as well, I won't even say corrupt because I think they are pretty mean to everyone, because no one holds them accountable. In the most plain terms, the Bill of Righta keeps the government honest due to its extra power.

Not really. Given how litigious our society is, and how myopically ignorant some parents can be, if the UIL were apply the Bill of Rights, they would spend more time in court than they would doing their jobs.

I would not be opposed to having the UIL - and the TEA - under very strict oversight. The TEA is a tax dollar siphon and cares nothing about education. Same could be said about the UIL. I was listening to Cowboy do his state game broadcast, and they were forced to run these crap UIL ads in addition to paying a fee just to do their webcast. Much like The Federal Reserve, I want to see the UIL audited.

This is your most sensible post in my opinion, and I apologize for saying you can't read. We differ because I would be fine with lax or strict enforcement as long as it is fair. Landon couldn't play because people in the past complained about his dad at Richland, yet it would have bern fine if his dad were a banker or a baker. Applying the Bill of Rights would probably create apply a lax standard, so I can see why you disagree with that now.

I still think, however, forcing the UIL to prove someone moved for athletic reasons beyond a reasonable doubt would make them more transparent and less arbitrary and capricious.

As far as FSCA comments, I think the UIL is the least of our worries in terms of the stuff your talking about. While big business gets the brunt of criticism, big government presents problems, like the ones you mentioned, that I have no idea how it will be resolved in the future.