I am ashamed to be from El Paso right now.

[amdnarg2010]

I have to post on here just to clear my heart and mind. Today I am having such mixed emotions. I am happy because Faith made it to the state game, however I am sorry to say that they are not the team that should be going. I sat and watched a team play their heart out and everytime a key play was made they were not given credit for it. Trinity Christian played not only against Faith but against the ref's. Call after call was made against this team and everytime they came back and tried again they were ruled against. This could have been a game for the record books, but the ref's showed such favoritism to Faith that it will now be a game that we will never know how is should have ended. TCAF really needs to look into this because it's just not fair for the ref's to decide who wins the game. I would like to see this game replayed with ref's that have nothing to gain and call it fair. To Trinity Christian: you are a class act and I hope you get your chance at a rematch. To play the state game without replaying this game would be a crime.

 

[MetroEagles32]

If you ask me, you're making a lot of very strong statements that would require backing up...are you entirely positive that the refs were biased?

What specificially happened?

 

[freeagent]

If you ask me, you're making a lot of very strong statements that would require backing up...are you entirely positive that the refs were biased?

What specificially happened?

Yes ... I'm assuming that the officials came from a recognized TASO chapter and frankly, although Faith and Trinity are fine schools, I doubt most officials would really think it's their job to favor one school over another.

As I once told a basketball team we had a number of years ago when they told me how the officials were biased against them, I said if you think that these officials are meeting over in Jim's Coffee Shop in San Antonio and thinking how to screw the Lifegate basketball team, you are overestimating the value of this team to the game of basketball.

But there are instances where some schools have been known to hire officials that are not in a TASO chapter or are in groups that only cover a few schools ... some of those officials tend to call games to the benefit of their home team and regular employer (for example, there is a basketball officials organization here in San Antonio that I refused to use or ever allow to call games against us for that reason).

What's the "rest of the story?"

 

[amdnarg2010]

If you ask me, you're making a lot of very strong statements that would require backing up...are you entirely positive that the refs were biased?

What specificially happened?

It was very clear that the ref's were going to make sure Faith won. These are the ref's that do all of Faiths games, so I am sure they were partial to Faith. Trinity scored 2 touchdowns that were clear touchdowns and both were waived off. These touchdowns would have put trinity in the lead or tied both times. Faith even recovered a so called fumble to get one of their touchdowns, this was not a fumble. I have seen a bad call or two in my time. But I covered my face and walked out after this game. I was so ashamed. They called everything against Trinity and nothing against Faith.

 

[coachgilbert]

I want to thank amdnarg2010 for this post. Not because you are taking up for my boys and for what happened at the game yesterday, but because it takes a lot of courage to post something like this.

Let me start by saying that Coach Croyle and the Faith Lions played their hearts out. It was smashmouth football at its best. Truly a test of both teams abilities. I commend him and his team for a game well played.

I'll not go into particulars about what happened at the game on this forum because that isn't, in my opinion, what this forum is all about. Flame wars benefit no one and it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome of the game.

To answer a question from metro, however, yes we have proof. The league will be informed and provided with the proof we have. But my reasons for doing so are not to try to change the outcome of the game nor to complain about Faith, but to make the league aware of situations that can easily be avoided in the future. I realize that this statement may be cryptic. See the above paragraph for an explanation as to why. If you would like to email me I'll be happy to explain what I mean but, again, this isn't the place for things of that nature.

So thank you, whoever you are amdnarg2010, for your support, honesty and courage. I know that my boys will appreciate it tremendously, as do I.

I wish Coach Croyle from Faith and Coach Jauz from Midland the best of luck this Saturday in the title game.

Matt Gilbert
Head coach
TCA Aledo

 

[Dman292]

, i attend all the Faith games and i believe that is probably the first time ive seen that officiating crew reffing a Faith game. #2, just to say that the refs were in Faith's side the whole entire game is completely naive. There are also times on key plays for Faith like spots where it looked like he got the first down but they made a bad spot and there were also a couple of pass interference calls that would of favored faith that werent called. And that fumble you were talking about, he fumbled the snap and if that isnt a fumble... what is? So just to say that the refs were on faith's side is naive.

 

[freeagent]

Maybe here's a lesson to be learned ... selection of officials, especially in playoff games, is done by the MUTUAL CONSENT of the two teams.

Just because you're playing at West Muleshoe Christian doesn't mean that ol' West Muleshoe automatically gets to pick the refs.

If you're worried about "home cookin'" by the refs, arrange for another chapter to call the game. Maybe in this case, refs could have come from the Midland chapter. Yes, you'd pay more (travel time) for the officials, and each school might have to pitch in a few bucks, but you can do it.

I know of a UIL 5A district that decided that they would not use the local TASO basketball chapter for their varsity game for various reasons (conflicts, etc.). They would bring in officials from other chapters and instead of refs costing $150-200 per game, it was $300 plus travel and meals. Admittedly, they would have larger gates to cover the cost, but it was a district decision.

I really don't think "ref bias" comes to play that often -- if an official has a conflict that would question his partiality, he shouldn't call the game.

For example, when I was in high school, we played (in basketball) the champion of another conference in a regional final at the old Green Bay Arena. The head official in the game also happened to be the COMMISSIONER of that conference. There were some bad calls, and they came from that guy. Talk about apperance of impropriety ...

John T.

 

[coachgilbert]

You hit the nail on the head John, as usual.

 

[freeagent]

You hit the nail on the head John, as usual.

Seems the only place I bat 1.000 is on the message board ...

 

[amdnarg2010]

I want to thank amdnarg2010 for this post. Not because you are taking up for my boys and for what happened at the game yesterday, but because it takes a lot of courage to post something like this.

Let me start by saying that Coach Croyle and the Faith Lions played their hearts out. It was smashmouth football at its best. Truly a test of both teams abilities. I commend him and his team for a game well played.

I'll not go into particulars about what happened at the game on this forum because that isn't, in my opinion, what this forum is all about. Flame wars benefit no one and it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome of the game.

To answer a question from metro, however, yes we have proof. The league will be informed and provided with the proof we have. But my reasons for doing so are not to try to change the outcome of the game nor to complain about Faith, but to make the league aware of situations that can easily be avoided in the future. I realize that this statement may be cryptic. See the above paragraph for an explanation as to why. If you would like to email me I'll be happy to explain what I mean but, again, this isn't the place for things of that nature.

So thank you, whoever you are amdnarg2010, for your support, honesty and courage. I know that my boys will appreciate it tremendously, as do I.

I wish Coach Croyle from Faith and Coach Jauz from Midland the best of luck this Saturday in the title game.

Matt Gilbert
Head coach
TCA Aledo

Your boys held their heads high and gave a new meaning to sportsmanship, they deserve the chance to have a fair game. All the best to you and your team.

 

[hcroyle]

To set the record straight Faith did use TASO refs. These were not officials that we pickup off of the streets. Despite what is said we did not hand pick the officials. We did call TASO and told them it was a playoff game and requested officials with experience. As a private school we normally get the refs that do not have very much experience.

This was a very hard fought game by both teams. The refs called it the way all playoff games should be called. There was minimal penalties called. If fact I can only remember one a delay of game on Faith. There was no holding penalties on either team. There were no personal fouls on either team. There was no passing interference calls on either team.

GAMES ARE WON AND LOSS BY PLAYERS AND COACHES. TO SAY A REF LOST YOU A GAME IS AN EXCUSE. ONLY LOSERS LOOK FOR EXCUSES.

amdnarg2010,
I wonder why you are so against Faith. Maybe could it be that we beat your team. There is nothing worst than a sore loser. Your football season is over. You should be concentrating on basketball. That is obviously the sport for you.

Homer Croyle
Head Football Coach
Faith Christian Academy

If there is any problems with this give me a call 915-269-3450

 

[awesomeness20]

Hmmmmm

 

[Dman292]

Just cuz we won and got beat by us AT your own field doesnt mean that you have to have hard feelings about us and beating u guys. Im sorry... correct that. i am not sorry that you guys lost to us. We won fair and square. If you think that us at Faith pays refs to win then u are entitled to your own opinion (which is stupid by the way). Just remember... Were the one's going to state and not you. Remember. Last year, we went 10-0 beating Austin Hill Country and Chapel which are both TAPPS Teams so Austin Hill Country was ranked high at the time. So when you start bashing us, research the facts first. My coach has every right to be offended. Stop hating just cuz you guys lost. Once again we won FAIR AND SQUARE.
PS: Stop making lame excuses about the ref's dictating the game. If you were a good team (and by the way you bash us on the internet you probably aren't) you would overcome the bad calls. Get over it. Besides, if ur such a big and bad tapps team, get off the TCAF FORUM!!!

 

[CoachSobey]

Hey, people, enough with the Faith bashing!! It is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

The only people getting hurt by any of this are the people who organized and made TCAF into a potential league of (soon to be) statewide proportions. The only "punishment" that will ever be given will be the poor opinions made (erroneously) about an organization that is really doing an excellent job of providing a place for "the other guy" to play and participate in a statewide organization.

Be assured that an appropriate investigation into the claims about the game last Saturday will be had. Be equally assured that steps will be taken to prevent the same problems in the future.

What kind of Christian looks at someone or something that is on fire and then squirts more lighter fluid into the flames "just for fun"? The ones getting burned will seldom be the ones who deserve it.

Dang!! You know there's a problem when I am the voice of reason...!! :shock:

Coach Sobey

 

[jtazz21]

ICS Coach,
thanks for calming things down a bit!!

awesomness20,
i agree, it would be nice to see Faith playing some real teams out there? yeah Austin and Chapel are good teams but who is in the district??

hcroyle,
you know that was some messed up things to say about being a sore loser! way to be HUMBLE about a big win!! and you know TASO refs are the worst in the world. but whatever.

As for everyone else, lets all stop that bashing and just enjoy some good six-man football. Good luck to both teams at state!!


EP Brawlers #25 8)

 

[Dman292]

awesomness20,
i agree, it would be nice to see Faith playing some real teams out there? yeah Austin and Chapel are good teams but who is in the district??

EP Brawlers #25 8)

You don't call Fort Davis or Richland Springs real teams???

 

[jtazz21]

yeah they are real teams but then i asked who is in your district worth watching other than Midland?

 

[freeagent]

Post by LSCSN.com ... moved to this topic by poster's request

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: Refs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
GAMES ARE WON AND LOSS BY PLAYERS AND COACHES. TO SAY A REF LOST YOU A GAME IS AN EXCUSE.

I don't think you can make such a blanket statement. Refs "do" have a say in the outcome of games, because calling a game is subjective at best.

I know the Oklahoma Sooners would disagree with you, because a ref DID in FACT cost them a game against Oregon.

Now you can say all you want to about well they shouldn't have been in that situation, which is true, but the facts are still the facts. There "were" in that situation and because of a "blown" call they lost.

I don't know if it was "deliberate" or not, but when you watch the tape one has to wonder.

As for a personal example we had a set of "hometown" refs that actually didn't like our school so they went out of their way to call against us. It was better for us to play on the road than it was to play at home.

One call in particular that I remember was in a close game and our girl drove the lane for a layup and the ball had already gone through the hoop and the ref called her for three seconds in the lane.

So yes you get bad refs. It's a shame, but it happens.

I would agree with John that officials should be from somewhere else when calling important/playoff games if at all possible. Calling the game is still subjective no matter who's calling it, but at least with refs from outside the area, hopefully it truly is the players and the coaches that are deciding the games!

 

[CoachSobey]

LSCSN.com,

In a game played by two teams wherein each team runs approximately 50 to 60 plays, played over a clocked time period of 60 minutes (NFL), 48 minutes (College), 40 minutes (HS), or 24/32 minutes (JH) -- it IS absolutely absurd to credit one or two poor calls by officials for the outcome of a game. You are saying that in less than 2% of the time period allotted for playing and in less than 5% of the plays performed on the field, the whole value of the game becomes bogus. Simply ridiculous.

It is time for all of us to grow up a little bit, take responsibility for failing to prepare and to stay focused, and stop looking for someone else to blame when what we want does not happen the way we want it to.

Coach Sobey

 

[LSCSN.com]

it IS absolutely absurd to credit one or two poor calls by officials for the outcome of a game. You are saying that in less than 2% of the time period allotted for playing and in less than 5% of the plays performed on the field, the whole value of the game becomes bogus. Simply ridiculous.

Again just ask the Oklahoma Sooners how ridiculous it is.

Everyone in the nation, INCLUDING Oregon knew that the ref(s) blew that game. That game was CLEARLY not decided by the players and/or coaches but by the refs.

Surely you are not going to dispute that are you?

Again you can "argue" all day long that the team should not have been in that situation, and I would wholeheartedly agree with you, but those aren't the facts of the matter. The facts of the matter were that they were in the situation and had the ref made the right call the Sooners would not have lost that game.

It is time for all of us to grow up a little bit, take responsibility for failing to prepare and to stay focused, and stop looking for someone else to blame when what we want does not happen the way we want it to.

And it's time for some of us to wake up to the "reality" of the world and realize that some folks aren't trying to "blame" anyone, but merely looking at the reality of the situation.

To say that Oklahoma was not prepared and was not focused is absurd.

The reality is there are bad refs that shouldn't be calling games. They are power hungry and they don't get to take that out in their "day" life so they ref to get that fix where they can't get it elsewhere legally.

Now I would agree that a blown call impacting the outcome of a game is an exception rather than a rule, but to say that it doesn't happen or that it has never happened and won't happen in the future is short-sighted at best with all due respect.

We just need to get rid of the "coach" talk and talk "reality." And that's coming from an ex-college and high school coach .