Strongly disagree with this statement. I know a lot of guys have been working out year around for football the last couple of years, plus great coaches come into play here to. They inspire players to reach their full potential. Savoy passed on a older coach that had won a state championship in 6 man, when they started playing 6 man, if I remeber correctly. Very dumb move. If we could have gotten four or five years out of him with the current staff as a assistant it could have been extremely beneficial long term to the program. Instead we will probably be stuck in a rut of being average under the current staff. It's about priorities, does the supt and school board care enough to give the kids the best chance to reach their full potential? I would say no. Because if you do you try to put the best man in place you can to build the program. Do you think that RS is just blessed with freak athletes year after year? I don't. Look at their enrollment numbers. It's a commitment from the school board and community to play at the upper level on a consistent basis. Same with Crowell, Valley and others who consistently field top 10 teams or produce state champions.CowboyP":1e4l54t8 said:
STATE FOOTBALL GAMES 12/12/15
- Thread starter jtspitzer
- Start date
You coached at RS and you say bull butter? You will agree that RS has a talented well coached team. So, just how many of these high school football players went to school at RS as 1st graders? How many have been "encouraged" to transfer or move to RS because they are talented? While you are answering that question honestly, I will rest my case.
truthhurts04
11-man fan
Savoy fan your part of the problem...ownership is never put on the athlete anymore..Seems to be the new norm of entitlements and selfishness....lets always put it on the Coach and take no responsibilities on ourselves. Its the Coaches job to "inspire" an athlete to show up to practice? To pass his classes? to stay out of trouble? to care about anyone other then himself? to show everyone respect? "Bull Butter" Its the parents job to instill those values, its the communities job to set expectations, its the players job to show respect and except those lessons, and its the coaches job to fill in the holes! Stop putting everything on the coaches...An artist is only as good as the clay in which he molds!
Johnny South
Six-man pro
Blue Bird":2ihk2lfh said:
BlueDuck,This same old story comes up every year. You used to claim that the RS athletes were Foster children who were recruited into the community. lol. Now, since there are no Foster children at all in the school, you accuse RS of encouraging transfers. lol. I know for a fact that one or maybe two of the High School boys did not start to school in first grade at RS. What percent of your school's boys did not start there in first grade? You are such a hypocrite!
smokeyjoe53
Six-man pro
You are absolutely correct. No other school accepts transfers. San Saba County has a booming economy to support all the families that transfer into the districts. Richland Springs is the industrial center of this area so families all move here to enjoy the economic success of the area.........Blue Bird":3sttwak8 said:
Johnny South
Six-man pro
And by the way Savoyman, you are absolutely correct in your line of thinking. 99.8% of all high school coaches are really great guys. The percentage of consistent motivators and winners is considerably less. I would estimate about 5%, maybe. There are some 'flash in the pan' coaches who stumble into the big games sometimes, so be careful in your selection process. If you have the will to get it done, stay after it and get the ball rolling.(get out the old checkbook) and maybe go visit over around Hamilton.
reddogblitz
11-man fan
This argument is made in about every sport at all levels, the material fact is you have to have talent to compete then the coach has to be good enough to coach that talent from the game level [not sport level]
Game level means moves made within the game and preparation leading up to it, now can a team be loaded with talent and still lose yes it can, its not enough to simply have a talented team, good college point south Carolina had a good coach but not enough team talent result they couldn't compete every week the same holds true for even six man ball. The rule in coaching known to be truth is you have to have blue ribbon players in 11 man the magic number is 7 six man at minimum 3, how many six man teams have won state with just 1 blue chip the numbers won't be high.
Game level means moves made within the game and preparation leading up to it, now can a team be loaded with talent and still lose yes it can, its not enough to simply have a talented team, good college point south Carolina had a good coach but not enough team talent result they couldn't compete every week the same holds true for even six man ball. The rule in coaching known to be truth is you have to have blue ribbon players in 11 man the magic number is 7 six man at minimum 3, how many six man teams have won state with just 1 blue chip the numbers won't be high.
Little Doc
11-man fan
Savoy Fan, why don't you just move. You will be happier and probably the community as well. The job of administrators and coaches is to educate. Football is not the end all.
tx6man4life
11-man fan
Johnny South":1if9hoyu said:
As a parent of a couple young kids who love football and are going to be pretty salty... We live 30 miles northwest of RS and are currently in another school, I will tell you this..my wife and I discuss moving our children there atleast once a week....they have a supportive community,administration,faculty and fantastic coaches. They believe in working hard and play with class. They also are led by a very Christian man who puts god first even before football....so my point is this don't fault RS for being the kind of program that parents want there children to be involved in...They produce hardworking respectful driven prayerful young men....so change your school district if you want the same type results, if you can't move to one that believes in success..
I want to admit two things that might upset some parents and fans.
First, established coaches who possess a goal to build a top level program, who are seeking a position with that mission in mind, do not apply for jobs that have little or no measurable chance of reaching such a goal. In other words, they rarely pursue positions they evaluate as less than capable of reaching the goal of competing for championships.
If Follett has a coaching job open, and between a job-seeking coach and Follett are two or three other schools seeking coaches, that guy will go after the position he thinks has the best opportunity to be a strong team--Follett. He will not apply for the closer jobs, and if he does it will be his second and third choice. Now, that school, in this case Follett, likewise, wants the best candidate they can find. Well, most of the time they do. Those in charge of hiring will determine the best two or three coaches they feel have the best background and credentials. Its a two-way street. If I am a newby coach with little experience, or virtually no past successes in coaching, an administrator would be ill-advised to hire me as the Head coach at BC, Follett, Valley or Richland Springs type programs. It would be irresponsible to hire me for the lead position. Now, it might be okay to bring me in as an assistant, of course.
If you hire a Brett Tyler or Shane Mallory, the payoff is immediate. If you hire a typical coach fresh out of college or with limited experience, it will take years for him to get to the level he needs to be. If a school can find a coach with limited experience, but that experience was gained at one of those schools mentioned, under established coaches, hiring him would be advantageous.
Now, what does that say about the ability and influence of having a coach like Burkhart, Lee, Crawford and the two I mentioned before. To under estimate that established truth is ridiculous. If you want to win a war you assign the job to a Patton, an Eisenhower, a U.S. Grant type. How many generals were fired until those guys were put in place. Same principal.
The other point I must save for later...got to watch Tantaros and Trump on Fox.
First, established coaches who possess a goal to build a top level program, who are seeking a position with that mission in mind, do not apply for jobs that have little or no measurable chance of reaching such a goal. In other words, they rarely pursue positions they evaluate as less than capable of reaching the goal of competing for championships.
If Follett has a coaching job open, and between a job-seeking coach and Follett are two or three other schools seeking coaches, that guy will go after the position he thinks has the best opportunity to be a strong team--Follett. He will not apply for the closer jobs, and if he does it will be his second and third choice. Now, that school, in this case Follett, likewise, wants the best candidate they can find. Well, most of the time they do. Those in charge of hiring will determine the best two or three coaches they feel have the best background and credentials. Its a two-way street. If I am a newby coach with little experience, or virtually no past successes in coaching, an administrator would be ill-advised to hire me as the Head coach at BC, Follett, Valley or Richland Springs type programs. It would be irresponsible to hire me for the lead position. Now, it might be okay to bring me in as an assistant, of course.
If you hire a Brett Tyler or Shane Mallory, the payoff is immediate. If you hire a typical coach fresh out of college or with limited experience, it will take years for him to get to the level he needs to be. If a school can find a coach with limited experience, but that experience was gained at one of those schools mentioned, under established coaches, hiring him would be advantageous.
Now, what does that say about the ability and influence of having a coach like Burkhart, Lee, Crawford and the two I mentioned before. To under estimate that established truth is ridiculous. If you want to win a war you assign the job to a Patton, an Eisenhower, a U.S. Grant type. How many generals were fired until those guys were put in place. Same principal.
The other point I must save for later...got to watch Tantaros and Trump on Fox.
Got a PM wanting me to explain how any coach determines the difference between schools that he thinks can offer the best opportunity to win at the highest level, versus schools he thinks have less capability. There are several ways.
One is obviously tradition. Some schools have built a habit of hiring top guys to maintain a winning sports program. Another way is the community situation. They are located in areas that provide good numbers of kids and that will not change in the foreseeable future. Some coaches have knowledge of schools who have upcoming talent in the lower grades. A friend or friends in the community have informed that coach of talented or large classes at a particular school. They have watched those kids and classes experience successful junior high seasons in football and basketball. One high level coach told me he knew a certain school was going to break over the horizon based on the success of their junior high track teams, A year later he secured that job and led them to football success. Coach Campbell told me in 2000 that Gordon always had plenty of kids to field strong teams across the board, all they needed were good coaches.
My dad hired Campbell away from Strawn because he realized a top coach was all Gordon needed to be in the running for a state championship. Yes, you will eventually have a talented group of kids who will be better than most. But when they run into a team with similar ability the better program prevails most of the time. Never underestimate that truth. Lincoln knew it and fired five or six commanding generals until he found one equal to Robert E. Lee. And that hire turned the tide of the war at Vicksburg. Gettysburg was a different situation. Nonetheless, Grant was promoted to the top.
One is obviously tradition. Some schools have built a habit of hiring top guys to maintain a winning sports program. Another way is the community situation. They are located in areas that provide good numbers of kids and that will not change in the foreseeable future. Some coaches have knowledge of schools who have upcoming talent in the lower grades. A friend or friends in the community have informed that coach of talented or large classes at a particular school. They have watched those kids and classes experience successful junior high seasons in football and basketball. One high level coach told me he knew a certain school was going to break over the horizon based on the success of their junior high track teams, A year later he secured that job and led them to football success. Coach Campbell told me in 2000 that Gordon always had plenty of kids to field strong teams across the board, all they needed were good coaches.
My dad hired Campbell away from Strawn because he realized a top coach was all Gordon needed to be in the running for a state championship. Yes, you will eventually have a talented group of kids who will be better than most. But when they run into a team with similar ability the better program prevails most of the time. Never underestimate that truth. Lincoln knew it and fired five or six commanding generals until he found one equal to Robert E. Lee. And that hire turned the tide of the war at Vicksburg. Gettysburg was a different situation. Nonetheless, Grant was promoted to the top.
Second point. Player influence is vital, no denying that fact. If players like Miles, Campbell, Ethridge and Parsley had moved to another strong team, that team would have been more capable of winning a championship.
Had Miles moved away from six-man his final year, I doubt they could have been the same caliber team. Had Lyle played for RS or Covington in 1999, those teams would been the favorite to win state. Tyler at May, Calvert or Trinidad would have shifted the balance of power in favor of any of those already good teams. If he had moved to Brownwood or Lampasas, cause they were courting him, Richland's chances would have been considerably less. Parsley leaving Crowell would have meant that Valley or May being the favorite to win the championship. But despite all that, had those guys relocated to average teams, winning it all is doubtful.
Again, to restate, yes kids are a strong and obvious reason for team success. But had Abbott possessed an average coach, some other team would be in the state game.
Had a coach with less talent taken the job at Brownwood in 1960, they would not have seven championship football trophies in their trophy case today.
Had Miles moved away from six-man his final year, I doubt they could have been the same caliber team. Had Lyle played for RS or Covington in 1999, those teams would been the favorite to win state. Tyler at May, Calvert or Trinidad would have shifted the balance of power in favor of any of those already good teams. If he had moved to Brownwood or Lampasas, cause they were courting him, Richland's chances would have been considerably less. Parsley leaving Crowell would have meant that Valley or May being the favorite to win the championship. But despite all that, had those guys relocated to average teams, winning it all is doubtful.
Again, to restate, yes kids are a strong and obvious reason for team success. But had Abbott possessed an average coach, some other team would be in the state game.
Had a coach with less talent taken the job at Brownwood in 1960, they would not have seven championship football trophies in their trophy case today.
SPREAD
11-man fan
IMHO
To win state, I think you have to have.
1. Good, dedicated, hard working Coaching staff..
2. Good, dedicated, hard working, Athletes, with a burning desire, to learn and win,
3. Good Support from parents and the community,
4. A little Luck. ( As Arnold Palmer once said, when a reporter ask him how he is lucky, He said "The harder I work the luckier I get."
RS by 45
To win state, I think you have to have.
1. Good, dedicated, hard working Coaching staff..
2. Good, dedicated, hard working, Athletes, with a burning desire, to learn and win,
3. Good Support from parents and the community,
4. A little Luck. ( As Arnold Palmer once said, when a reporter ask him how he is lucky, He said "The harder I work the luckier I get."
RS by 45
BE I think your statements are all pretty spot on. My point was not to bash our coach. Like was stated most coaches are great guys. BUT most of not all championship teams and consistently top programs have Coaching in place like the scenario you laid out. Savoy has had good kids, behavior and attitude wise, so for now that's not really the issue. Just need the staff to move the program to the next level.
Blue Bird":1nudg18s said:
Im not denying the impact kids make on sports teams. I have mentioned more than once how move ins helped us on that 2012 football team that played (a little) in the state game . We had some really good transfers that made that possible.
Chris Bechthold was from Booker and was our fastest and second most talented player.
Errol Ormesher (Colorado) was our best RB and second best Rusher.
Patrick Weist was the glue (character) who stuck all of the team together. He was from East Texas and Darrouzett.
Nick Maxwell transferred from Darrouzett in junior high.
All four of those guys wanted to attend Follett and play football.
I did not recruit any of them. To be totally transparent
I did speak to Patrick while he was in the process of moving. His sister and mother said he might attend Darouzett. His folks lived in Follett, though.The 2004 through 2007 RS teams had kids from other places. Most of the impact players were foster kids from Austin. They had no choice in where they lived. The foster family always had ten or twelve foster-kids. Most of them were not athletes, had no physical ability. But both Foxes, Shelby Smith, Abraham Ahumadah, Coey and Jeremiah were pretty fair athletes. Tyler Fox and Shelby were exceptional athletes. All of them were tough as horse shoes. And they all appreciated everything you did for them. They were old school in many ways. They had their negatives, but so did Tyler Earl, Patrick Couch and Logan Lewis who were not foster kids.
Everybody realizes many people want to be a part of a winning school. Girls and boys. It just so happens that in RS it is boys mostly. Had my girls wanted to, I would have transferred them to Rochelle to play for Jym Dennis. Even Zephyr, but they were too far away.
Do parents and kids of school A try to convince people from other schools to attend school A, of course they do. That is not against UIL rules. However, it is against UIL rules for any person to move to a school just because they want to play for one of their sports teams. So what is the teeth behind that rule. They have to sit out varsity competition for one calendar year...one year. Doesn't affect junior high or JV competition.
Here's one more point. And it will get me slammed behind the scenes more than anything said.
Many, perhaps most schools either don't care enough or don't realize enough to recognize the importance of hiring a top coach. Why? How could that be?? I don't know. I have a few ideas. Schools that fit all the attributes I mentioned earlier, at the end of the day still can't find the road to creating an athletic program second to none.
My dad and another coach I respect always said that most of us choose to do far less than what it takes to be one of the best. In essence we choose to lose against those who are building top programs.
But for those schools who haven't done it in the past, for whatever reasons, it's an easy fix. Get a good candidate, if you can find one. Board members at Panther Creek wanted a change back in '96 or '97, so they went to Ropes and courted Mitch Lee. They found him painting the Field House. It took considerable effort and time, but he was persuaded. And the rest is history. His "Unbalanced I", (JayBird) was state-of-the-art six-man football at the highest level, and remains so to a great degree. Others used it, Mitch made it an institution.
If and when he suffered defeat, it was against a team who usually included the J'bird as part of their offense.
Borden County, Gordon, and Woodson ran much Unbalanced offense. May probably did some. They used a lot of Spread.
Many, perhaps most schools either don't care enough or don't realize enough to recognize the importance of hiring a top coach. Why? How could that be?? I don't know. I have a few ideas. Schools that fit all the attributes I mentioned earlier, at the end of the day still can't find the road to creating an athletic program second to none.
My dad and another coach I respect always said that most of us choose to do far less than what it takes to be one of the best. In essence we choose to lose against those who are building top programs.
But for those schools who haven't done it in the past, for whatever reasons, it's an easy fix. Get a good candidate, if you can find one. Board members at Panther Creek wanted a change back in '96 or '97, so they went to Ropes and courted Mitch Lee. They found him painting the Field House. It took considerable effort and time, but he was persuaded. And the rest is history. His "Unbalanced I", (JayBird) was state-of-the-art six-man football at the highest level, and remains so to a great degree. Others used it, Mitch made it an institution.
If and when he suffered defeat, it was against a team who usually included the J'bird as part of their offense.
Borden County, Gordon, and Woodson ran much Unbalanced offense. May probably did some. They used a lot of Spread.
truthhurts04
11-man fan
There is a problem with your theory...you say all you need is good coaching to be a contender!? Pretty sure yourself, Burkhart, Mitch Lee, Dwayne Lee, Mallory, and all the other "greats" have been at schools where you werent contenders. You didnt have success until you went somewhere else... Soooo not the right kids? Community? Etc? With that fact couldnt it be possible there are other good coaches (you are quick to criticize) that are at places that just isnt "right"? Maybe they het everything they can out of the situation they are in?
Truthhurts, I just said how important good football players are to being successful. I admitted that. Giminey Christmas. How is that spelled? And it's not a theory. It be da gospel truth. The best programs have the best coaches.
Anyone know where Crawford learned his potent brand of football. Ask him. It was from another top football coach. Before he went to Abbott, had any of us ever heard of Abbott football? Ooooh, what a bigoted thing to say!
And I have stated in the past I thought I was a decent coach before RS. But my frame of reference was limited. I played 11-man football. And looking back I now realize I had some very mediocre coaches. Great people, good men, pillars in the communities. But not guys who coached at the highest level. Those guys were at Celina, Big Sandy, Breckenridge, Brownwood, Abilene and San Angelo. Odessa Permian and Plano. Gorman and Wheeler. Other places.
I know now I didn't know sheet! I came to realize that while at Novice. And I was hungry to fix my weaknesses. But I knew I was absolutely not going to improve my profession at Novice.
Still am hungry. I watched 15 games this year on Friday nights and Saturday so I could pick up better ideas and info to use next year. I have two more boys who might play. I will coach another Tyler Fox, Shelby Smith, Dakota Woods and Cole Freeman, and I want to be better with those in the future than I was with those in the past.
I was tricked into the football job at Hermleigh. I wanted the assistant job, thought that was what I had. When I got there I was the Head football coach. What??? They had to drag me to Hermleigh. I knew I didn't know enough six-man to give those kids their best shot at winning. Of course I learned a lot while there. Talked to Mr. Spieker several times. He proposed I use the Spread offense. So I found Campbell and Clawson.
The first day I watched Clawson lead his team in practice, I was flabbergasted. When Jerry did his first day at RS, he walked over to me and whispered, "is this what ya'll always do in practice?", I grinned and said Yep. I had been watching him all day to see if I could recognize the same reaction I had on my first day. It was the same surprised look. It didn't take him long to realize the truth.
Anyone know where Crawford learned his potent brand of football. Ask him. It was from another top football coach. Before he went to Abbott, had any of us ever heard of Abbott football? Ooooh, what a bigoted thing to say!
And I have stated in the past I thought I was a decent coach before RS. But my frame of reference was limited. I played 11-man football. And looking back I now realize I had some very mediocre coaches. Great people, good men, pillars in the communities. But not guys who coached at the highest level. Those guys were at Celina, Big Sandy, Breckenridge, Brownwood, Abilene and San Angelo. Odessa Permian and Plano. Gorman and Wheeler. Other places.
I know now I didn't know sheet! I came to realize that while at Novice. And I was hungry to fix my weaknesses. But I knew I was absolutely not going to improve my profession at Novice.
Still am hungry. I watched 15 games this year on Friday nights and Saturday so I could pick up better ideas and info to use next year. I have two more boys who might play. I will coach another Tyler Fox, Shelby Smith, Dakota Woods and Cole Freeman, and I want to be better with those in the future than I was with those in the past.
I was tricked into the football job at Hermleigh. I wanted the assistant job, thought that was what I had. When I got there I was the Head football coach. What??? They had to drag me to Hermleigh. I knew I didn't know enough six-man to give those kids their best shot at winning. Of course I learned a lot while there. Talked to Mr. Spieker several times. He proposed I use the Spread offense. So I found Campbell and Clawson.
The first day I watched Clawson lead his team in practice, I was flabbergasted. When Jerry did his first day at RS, he walked over to me and whispered, "is this what ya'll always do in practice?", I grinned and said Yep. I had been watching him all day to see if I could recognize the same reaction I had on my first day. It was the same surprised look. It didn't take him long to realize the truth.