Can someone please enlighten me on the rules for refs at junior high games. Should they be taso or not. The head ref at the Ira ACMS game said he was but doesn't wear his patch or carry any ID to signify that he is. Then when someone asked his name he asked if they were going to turn him in. The other 2 refs were kids who didn't know the rules. One blew the whistle and stopped the play for a holding call. One of them was even the coaches kid. Is it that tough to find competent refs
Refs at Ira JH games.
- Thread starter 1987
- Start date
Billy_Hoyle
Six-man fan
Please get out there yourself. We can always use more officials.
I'm sure with your infinite knowledge of the game, you would make a fine ref.
I'm sure with your infinite knowledge of the game, you would make a fine ref.
Mr. Hoyle I usually don't have problems with officials to the point I feel the need to rant on here. But when the home team doesn't bring in officials and pulls a couple of teenagers out the stands (one of which is the coaches son) and they think that's okay, that's where I have a problem.
By your wording I assume you are an official. You have a thankless job. I appreciate the time you put into it. I know it's not for the pay.
By your wording I assume you are an official. You have a thankless job. I appreciate the time you put into it. I know it's not for the pay.
Legacy Zebra
Six-man fan
In short, yes it actually is that difficult to find officials. The chapters around Ira's area are hurting for officials right now. The chapter I'm a part of has had to ask schools to move games to either Thursday or Saturday and we've also told schools that we just can't cover their sub varsity games because we just don't have the man power to cover everything. If they didn't have officials there, it more than likely wasn't Ira's fault. There just wasn't anybody left to call.
Little Doc
11-man fan
Be glad you got to play the game. I know kids are whether they won or not.
biggernbetter
11-man fan
Speaking from a coaches standpoint, when you are on the outer edges of the chapters coverage area you are the first ones to not get officials. We have always had to scrape up our own officials for at least 2 or 3 sub varsity games a year. Luckily we have a big enough coaching staff we can manage. Schools with small coaching staffs do the best they can. Regular officials blow inadvertent whistles as well. Just because they are members of the TASO does not mean they wont blow a call or know all the rules. The refs you usually get at JH games are newbies or green officials with very little or no experience. If you had one official, I would say you were lucky. Your team, whether they won or lost, learned some valuable lessons. Adversity builds character. Its all in how you as the parents reacted after the game. Did you blame the officials and gripe about that or tell your sons, You did a great job. I really loved watching you give your best effort out there and explain that sometimes things happen in a game because the officials are human and everyone makes mistakes. Its not about the mistakes of the official. Its about the effort and sportsmanship that was displayed by the young men that represent you as the parent, the community and everyone that makes up the name on the front of the jersey. OK, Ill get off my soap box now.
smokeyjoe53
Six-man pro
I hope you stay up on that soap box coach. We need to hear that message often.............
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We were extremely proud of our boys last night. And we all told them that. They showed that they are the real deal and came close to beating a team that churns out power house high school teams. But when the penalties go against us 6 or 7 to 1 and the majority of the calls are coming from the coaches kid who is also on the same side of the field as his dad what are we suppose to expect. As a coach I know you probably work the refs at games. If their coach is yelling #0 is holding and his son is the one on that side what do you think is going to happen. The refs did not lose the game for us. Our two turnovers hurt us and probably did the trick. Ira is the only place that I have seen this situation and I just wanted to know if my expectations were unreasonable. Just because they are jr.high kids does not mean they deserve less. I appreciate all the refs that work the games. I have 3 friends that do it. I also know that 6man games are the least attractive, and I have no problems with them using people who are not "official" officials. I just question their choice of the two they picked.
As for your soap box stance as a whole, I could not agree more, but don't stop with just the parents and players. I was sitting around a couple of coaches from the the more prominent programs at the last Don Hardin bowl. It seems they might want to take heed to your advice also.
As for your soap box stance as a whole, I could not agree more, but don't stop with just the parents and players. I was sitting around a couple of coaches from the the more prominent programs at the last Don Hardin bowl. It seems they might want to take heed to your advice also.
Refs are hard to get for JH games for us too...be thankful that those kids are willing to come out of the stands and do it...because your not playing that game if they dont....we hardly ever can get refs for jh games either. I have to use asst coaches and former players (if they are not at work or class).. bad calls are going to be made regardless if they are kids out of the stands or real officials...just line up and play the next play...just like coaches make bad play calls and players mis-execute...officials are going to make bad calls...no big deal, move on and play the next play and be thankful someone is willing to step out there and put themselves in that thankless position in order to get your JH kids some snaps.
Coach Linman
Anton ISD
Coach Linman
Anton ISD
justobserving
11-man fan
The ref situation is really tough right now from what I have heard.
I know of one school that has offered to move game days. They have already started one game at 8:30 to allow a ref crew to finish an early game and travel to do theirs.
It is a thankless job ( for the most part ). From the math I do with the travel price of fuel it is almost a losing proposition from an economic stand point.
Jr. High games are just a hoot to ref. No where can you get the experience of being that close to shear terror, over whelming excitement, massive confusion, deer in the headlights looks, coaches exasperation and pride and just plain fun.
I really would jump in right now and do a little Zebra work if the body would allow. Theez hear golddin yerz iz sew mutch phun ...
I know of one school that has offered to move game days. They have already started one game at 8:30 to allow a ref crew to finish an early game and travel to do theirs.
It is a thankless job ( for the most part ). From the math I do with the travel price of fuel it is almost a losing proposition from an economic stand point.
Jr. High games are just a hoot to ref. No where can you get the experience of being that close to shear terror, over whelming excitement, massive confusion, deer in the headlights looks, coaches exasperation and pride and just plain fun.
I really would jump in right now and do a little Zebra work if the body would allow. Theez hear golddin yerz iz sew mutch phun ...
Since this thread is in the Sixman Football topic I feel inclined to bring up an observation.
Good sportsmanship must be instilled at the Jr High level of sports (if not before). I don't think I have to elaborate on what occurred since 87' was at the game but half of those "penalties" you are referring to happened on the last few kneel down plays of the game. Good sportsmanship is critical to the development of football players and most importantly Sixman football players of our great communities.
I didn't even want to include this observation in this thread but just wanted to point out some of the penalty situation. I had no dog in this fight just a fan and I believe the refs did a good job with the circumstances before them. Good football to you and ACHS, see you at your place tonight.
Good sportsmanship must be instilled at the Jr High level of sports (if not before). I don't think I have to elaborate on what occurred since 87' was at the game but half of those "penalties" you are referring to happened on the last few kneel down plays of the game. Good sportsmanship is critical to the development of football players and most importantly Sixman football players of our great communities.
I didn't even want to include this observation in this thread but just wanted to point out some of the penalty situation. I had no dog in this fight just a fan and I believe the refs did a good job with the circumstances before them. Good football to you and ACHS, see you at your place tonight.
Cardinal Dad
11-man fan
Are the playoffs on the line? Seriously though, I can be critical of refs on occassion but not on the JH level. Fortunately the coaches of both teams at our game last night were cordial and even if a call was missed they were talking to their players and telling them how to do the job correctly. I am not saying that it isn't with your teams, but learning the game, how to work as a team, to never give up, and how to play with character is what JH should be about.
1st down - play ball!
1st down - play ball!
HP Drifter
11-man fan
Having been on dark side, am familiar with both sides. What I find odd is that most of the time the sixman schools are the ones asked to change the day they play. How about the larger schools (and yes know in big cities some play on Thursday and Saturday to accomodate facilities. Have more of them do it. Just saying and giving Big Un Coach Steele his soap box back.
Little Doc
11-man fan
I bet if the game had been played at ACHS, and the same scenario occurred there with the ref situation, we wouldn't be reading about it on this site.
Shane
11-man fan
I wasn't at the JH game last night, so I don't have an opinion on that. Just a comment...
I take pictures on the sidelines at the HS games. I have the gear for it, and it's fun. I'm glad to share the pics with the families of all the players. But one of the main reasons I do it is because it gets me out of the stands. When I'm on the sideline standing next to the refs, it keeps my mouth shut. If I were in the stands, it would be really, really hard to avoid opening my mouth too much. I'm competitive. That's great, but it can lead to problems sometimes. So I stand next to the ref and take pictures. I'm not always quiet even then, but I do a lot better than I'd probably do in the stands. LOL
Anyway, a couple things I've noticed from being on the sidelines taking pictures the last few years....
1. I hear a lot of cheering and encouragement for the players coming from both sides of the field in every game. That's very cool. The players and coaches and refs can hear that too.
2. I hear some mouthing and things that just make me cringe coming from both sides of the field in every game too. Some games it's worse than others, but it's there in every game on both sides. It's usually just a small number of fans, but it's always there somewhere. That's unfortunate. The players, coaches and refs can hear that too.
3. I hear what the players, coaches, and refs are saying on the field. Sometimes in the stands, when you don't hear everything, some plays/calls can appear to be terrible when in fact they were great calls when you have all the information. Sometimes there are just gonna be terrible calls too. That's just gonna happen. But sometimes you can get the wrong impression from the stands because you can't hear the explanations and everything.
Bad calls and a few mouthy fans are, unfortunately, unavoidable. And it often affects the game. It has an effect on the players and the refs more than anything, I'm convinced. When the players hear their parents and fans ripping the refs, the players start mouthing at the refs too. When the refs hear all of that, they often start looking for penalties to call on the mouthy team. When it comes from a school with Christian in the name, it usually only takes one or two loud comments to get on the officials' bad side. Whether it's fair or not, we're held to a higher standard. The same loud and rude comments from another school are usually tolerated by refs longer. I'm not whining about that. That's just the way it is. In fact, I think that we should be held to a higher standard, and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard if we're going to make "Christian" our middle name. Sure, most of the fans from all the other schools are Christians too, and they should hold themselves to that same high standard. But, like it or not, there is always gonna be a different standard applied to fans of a Christian school. It just comes with the territory.
It sure is hard sometimes though.
I take pictures on the sidelines at the HS games. I have the gear for it, and it's fun. I'm glad to share the pics with the families of all the players. But one of the main reasons I do it is because it gets me out of the stands. When I'm on the sideline standing next to the refs, it keeps my mouth shut. If I were in the stands, it would be really, really hard to avoid opening my mouth too much. I'm competitive. That's great, but it can lead to problems sometimes. So I stand next to the ref and take pictures. I'm not always quiet even then, but I do a lot better than I'd probably do in the stands. LOL
Anyway, a couple things I've noticed from being on the sidelines taking pictures the last few years....
1. I hear a lot of cheering and encouragement for the players coming from both sides of the field in every game. That's very cool. The players and coaches and refs can hear that too.
2. I hear some mouthing and things that just make me cringe coming from both sides of the field in every game too. Some games it's worse than others, but it's there in every game on both sides. It's usually just a small number of fans, but it's always there somewhere. That's unfortunate. The players, coaches and refs can hear that too.
3. I hear what the players, coaches, and refs are saying on the field. Sometimes in the stands, when you don't hear everything, some plays/calls can appear to be terrible when in fact they were great calls when you have all the information. Sometimes there are just gonna be terrible calls too. That's just gonna happen. But sometimes you can get the wrong impression from the stands because you can't hear the explanations and everything.
Bad calls and a few mouthy fans are, unfortunately, unavoidable. And it often affects the game. It has an effect on the players and the refs more than anything, I'm convinced. When the players hear their parents and fans ripping the refs, the players start mouthing at the refs too. When the refs hear all of that, they often start looking for penalties to call on the mouthy team. When it comes from a school with Christian in the name, it usually only takes one or two loud comments to get on the officials' bad side. Whether it's fair or not, we're held to a higher standard. The same loud and rude comments from another school are usually tolerated by refs longer. I'm not whining about that. That's just the way it is. In fact, I think that we should be held to a higher standard, and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard if we're going to make "Christian" our middle name. Sure, most of the fans from all the other schools are Christians too, and they should hold themselves to that same high standard. But, like it or not, there is always gonna be a different standard applied to fans of a Christian school. It just comes with the territory.
It sure is hard sometimes though.
Nobody blamed the refs for our loss last night. Not one parent that I know of did and I certainly not me.
Nor did we tell the kids that the refs was the reason for the loss. If you have read my previous post I said we had a couple of turnovers that done us in. I was just asking what the protocol was when it came to jr. high games. Now I know middle school games don't count as much but let me tell you why it did to our kids last night. Our middle school program had not won a game till this year in over two years. We won our first two this season and last night game was a test to see if they were for real. I'll admit it probably meant more to our side than anyone else. More than anything this season our boys are having fun and a few of the boys who said they were not going to play in high school are starting to change their mind. That's a good thing, and believe me we are going to need them.
Little Doc. when it happens at ACS coaches step in. Not once in the six years my boys have been there that I know of have they let teenagers call games.
ryry. Unfortunately last night jr. high game is going to be the better of the two. We have three starters out tonight and honestly even if they were playing it wouldn't be close. I just hope none ya'lls players suffer an injury in what is really just a scrimmage. Safe travels to you and your team and fans
Nor did we tell the kids that the refs was the reason for the loss. If you have read my previous post I said we had a couple of turnovers that done us in. I was just asking what the protocol was when it came to jr. high games. Now I know middle school games don't count as much but let me tell you why it did to our kids last night. Our middle school program had not won a game till this year in over two years. We won our first two this season and last night game was a test to see if they were for real. I'll admit it probably meant more to our side than anyone else. More than anything this season our boys are having fun and a few of the boys who said they were not going to play in high school are starting to change their mind. That's a good thing, and believe me we are going to need them.
Little Doc. when it happens at ACS coaches step in. Not once in the six years my boys have been there that I know of have they let teenagers call games.
ryry. Unfortunately last night jr. high game is going to be the better of the two. We have three starters out tonight and honestly even if they were playing it wouldn't be close. I just hope none ya'lls players suffer an injury in what is really just a scrimmage. Safe travels to you and your team and fans
CoachJackson1
11-man fan
Here is thought. Anybody ever think of contacting the local universities and jr colleges. They have officiating classes. Those kids need experience.
I was a ref for 10 years and most smaller schools only paid one chapter official. He was in charge of the other officials (locals). It's just the way it is. Shortage of officials available and also cost is an issue. If there was a chapter official at the game then he should have taken charge and asked the coaches son to leave the field. I've called games by myself before because a "local" official got pissed because I waved off his flags. But also look at it as a learning step for the young men. Things won't always go their way and sometimes you just gotta step up and play your game even if you feel the refs are against you.
