On side kicks

[Rcblank85]

I am sure this has been a topic in the past. I just have to ask the coaches or folks that are really in the know why the onslaught of onside kicks? I played sixman many many years ago and we never did that...i refereed for some time in late 90's and early 2000's. i was out of the loop for many years until my nephew was playing and the norm was onside kicks...so someone please explain to me how giving the opposing team the ball at mid field on a regular basis is a good thing..

 

[CW06]

I personally think it's stupid unless your really good at it or there is a returner that your scared of

 

[CleverUsername1]

I think it's fear of giving up return touchdowns. It doesn't make sense against teams with no return threat though.

 

[Rcblank85]

It's puzzling to me..

 

[Rcblank85]

I think it's fear of giving up return touchdowns. It doesn't make sense against teams with no return threat though.

If they have a kid that is a return threat, wouldn't he be an offensive threat as well? So,why give that kid half the filed...again I'm not a coach I,don't pretend to know it all by no means, it's just it don't make sense to me..

 

[coachsatcher]

I get asked this question all the time. My personal reason behind the onside kick, is because it limits the options for success for the receiving team. If you don't have a kicker who can kick the ball deep - with adequate hang time, and I mean endzone deep, it really doesn't make sense to allow the returning team that much space to operate. Think of it in relation to open space. An eleven man team has 50 yards across the field to cover with 10 men, (typically the kicker remains behind and is the safety valve). Kicking it deep in 6-man, or with no hang time, asks the kicking team to cover 5 yards less on each side (40 yards), with half the players. Teams that don't have a solid kicker, but continually kick deep, still allow the returning team to reach the 30 yard line or better; however, the possibilities of a touchdown increase exponentially with every kick.

I had the luxury, in Mount Calm, to kick out of the endzone whenever I liked, but still had the option to onside kick. This is optimal, as it doesn't allow the best receiver to know where the ball is going. Unfortunately, a kicker like that isn't in every town, so it only makes sense to optimize your field position, while limiting the possibilities of success for your opponent. It's not as flashy, and doesn't offer the bone crushing hits; but's it's safe. It's really no different from walking a good hitter with first base open, or fouling someone to make them shoot free throws rather than giving up an easy layup. They're not always the popular choice, but if they offer your team the highest opportunities for success, it's really an easy choice for me.

 

[Blue Bird]

In sixman, field position means little or nothing, your number of possesions means everything. There is usually about ten to fifteen yards field position difference between a good short kick and a deep kick. If you are playing a really good team that will mean one more play on their scoring drive. The exception to all of this is if you have a kicker that can boom the ball out of the end zone where there is no possibility of a return for a TD, then by all means boom away.

I was in Blackwell watching Water Valley and Ira in a playoff game a few years back. Water Valley boomed the ball on their opening kickoff but did not quite clear the end zone. The older Morris caught the ball over his shoulder going away from the kicker, tip toed to keep from running out of the back of the end zone, got turned in the right direction and took it to the house. Not something any Coach or team wants to have happen in a playoff game.

The other end of the equation is your kick coverage. This boils down to math. In the crowded field you have 11 guys covering a 50 yards of width. That works out to about 4.5 yards a man. In sixman you have 6 covering 40 yards of width. That works out to about 6.66 yards a man. If the other team's deep receiver has any speed at all it will only take one good block to get him to midfield. So much for field position. Two good blocks and he scores.

 

[Rcblank85]

I get asked this question all the time. My personal reason behind the onside kick, is because it limits the options for success for the receiving team. If you don't have a kicker who can kick the ball deep - with adequate hang time, and I mean endzone deep, it really doesn't make sense to allow the returning team that much space to operate. Think of it in relation to open space. An eleven man team has 50 yards across the field to cover with 10 men, (typically the kicker remains behind and is the safety valve). Kicking it deep in 6-man, or with no hang time, asks the kicking team to cover 5 yards less on each side (40 yards), with half the players. Teams that don't have a solid kicker, but continually kick deep, still allow the returning team to reach the 30 yard line or better; however, the possibilities of a touchdown increase exponentially with every kick.

I had the luxury, in Mount Calm, to kick out of the endzone whenever I liked, but still had the option to onside kick. This is optimal, as it doesn't allow the best receiver to know where the ball is going. Unfortunately, a kicker like that isn't in every town, so it only makes sense to optimize your field position, while limiting the possibilities of success for your opponent. It's not as flashy, and doesn't offer the bone crushing hits; but's it's safe. It's really no different from walking a good hitter with first base open, or fouling someone to make them shoot free throws rather than giving up an easy layup. They're not always the popular choice, but if they offer your team the highest opportunities for success, it's really an easy choice for me.

I can respect that answer.. thanks coach..

 

[freeagent]

At a clinic once, we did a breakout on special teams.

One of the coaches brought up this fact ... on kicks, think about each player responsible for a "lane" down field. In 11 man, each kid is responsible for a lane about 5-1/2 feet each side of him, or 11 feet total. Even with the narrower field, in 6 man, those lanes increase to 10 feet on each side, or 20 feet total.

That's a pretty big difference and much more difficult to defend. Unless you have a kicker who can consistently kick the ball through the end zone and set up the opponent on the 20 yard line, you're better off kicking short and maybe get a turnover or two.

 

[Blue Bird]

There are quite few crowded field high school coaches and college coaches who employ the pouch kick in a effort to avoid the big return.

 

[Oldiebutagoodie]

I think it makes since in 6man to Onside, unless you have kicker that can kick touchbacks. Think about it, You're asking your 6 guys to cover 40+ yards of field(laterally speaking). That's really a tough thing to do. Odds are a returner of avg ability is at the very least going to bringing it back to the 30.. so is the risk of him housing it really worth it? Plus the ball hops funny you always have a chance to recover it.

 

[Rcblank85]

I understand the explanation..however I guess it comes down to the kicker and the athletes on the field.

 

[coachsatcher]

That's exactly right. With a kicker, who can put it out of the back of the end zone, it's not as important who is on the field. With a kicker who can't, you better have disciplined athletes, who will maintain their zone responsibility, or even a mediocre athlete will make you look silly.

 

[Priceless]

I think it's fear of giving up return touchdowns. It doesn't make sense against teams with no return threat though.

Well I think it comes down to the fact that most six man teams I have seen from the stands barely have someone who can kick PAT's, so you do not have the threat of a long distance field goal and you are getting the added bonus that maybe 1 out of 5 times you get the onside and a extra possession. With this understanding you basically are going the same distance as 11-man teams to score. Only difference is they go 45-55 yards dependent on the return for 3 points and in six man football you go 45 yards to get 6 points. It would be interested to see the percentages of times that a onside actually works in the six man game. Also what is everyone's opinion on the best way to onside? I have seen teams go to the corners as well as up the middle.

 

[coachsatcher]

My personal preference is to kick to a side, because you can use the sideline as an extra defender. Also, this season, we recovered around 15% of our onside kicks. A much higher percentage than the number of turnovers collected on a deep kick.

 

[Rcblank85]

15% that's pretty darn good. Ok my old school brain is beginning to see the reasons...but like you said earlier coach it's definitely not the popular choice...however us fans are not signing your check and you gotta win to have a job so I get it...good luck coach thanks for the explanation..
looking back at days gone by...way by... we were a loaded team and nobody did onside against us which now seeing the % results was probably a bad choice for them. Just a testament to how the game and coaching has evolved....I am just a fan now and I love seeing the long kicks and returns for the excitement but again I'm not being paid to coach a team..once again good luck to all the coaches and teams in the playoffs...

 

[Batmazz]

Works both ways
onside will give field position away if you are not attempting to recover i.e. trying to keep from getting burned on a return.
we directional kick my last year in six man
this year we kick deep because of ability to cover
coverage personal makes a difference
lack of time spent by programs is the main reason onside has become so popular in todays game

 

[coachsatcher]

The best way to kick, outside booting through the end zone, is a very high, directional kick. This typically will be fair caught around the 20-25. You can work on special teams until you're blue in the face, but if you don't have a kicker on the team, you're limited on your options.

 

[CleverUsername1]

Well I think the Blum-Aquilla game showcased the importance of the onside kick. Blum tied the game up with approximately 15 seconds left in the 4th. They onside kicked it and recovered with 12 seconds left on the opponents 25. Two plays later they scored to win the game. Had they kicked it long, the game would've gone into overtime, or worse Aquilla would've returned it for a touchdown.

 

[freeagent]

My personal preference is to kick to a side, because you can use the sideline as an extra defender. Also, this season, we recovered around 15% of our onside kicks. A much higher percentage than the number of turnovers collected on a deep kick.

The sideline always plays excellent defense.