Non-UIL players who can start on a UIL Team?

[justobserving]

Forget the Valley comment - do you not thing that there are guys in 6-man that could play 11 man UIL??? My logic is that if you take the top 40 teams, then you equal the size of an average 5A school. I think you could get enough players from the top 40 6-man teams to compete - don't you?? I wouldn't mind trying to coach that group of kids....

Yes, as I have already stated that there a few 6 man players that could play in the UIL. That being said I don't believe you have a real grasp here of the talent level you are talking about.

I was put in a position last Friday night where I attended a ball game between two 3A schools. Neither world beaters. Both have 5-3 records. I will guarantee you that no six man player I have seen this year could have started for either of those two teams. I don't know of any sixman player I have seen in the past few years could have just stepped in and started for these two teams. My home town high school, the smallest 2A in the state would be able to use a very good six man player at this time. They have the worst talent pool I have seen in years.

You have to realize the "space" that sixman players operate in puts their physical abilities in a whole different environment from the 11 man world. Also the talent levels they compete against in their league is a an entirely different world. The overall speed of the players in the 11 man game in the 3A and above level is way beyond the 6 man game but the appearance because of all the bodies involved seems to slow the game. Not as many big an exciting plays because a kid in sixman with a little bit of speed gets out in a large open area void of any tacklers ( just a fact of the 6 man game • a lot of area and not enough bodies to cover it ) and motors to the end zone.

As far as taking the 40 top schools athletes and competing in 5A - I really don't think so. You really need to get some 3A - 5A game programs and look at some heights and weights. And when you look at the "little" guys in 3A - 5A you will want to get some 40yd and 100 meter times. In this league you are talking "the real deal" athletes and not the 7-15 boys in school you try as a coach to mold into a team. The 3A-5A teams have kids standing on the sideline sixman coaches would nearly kill to have on the field. They probably have water boys on the sideline they would like to have in uniform.

This applies across the spectrum. My alma mater West Texas A&M is about to be elevated to a rating in the top 6 in the nation in Division II football. I am an avid fan and follower. They have some phenomenal athletes. They are 7-1. I surely would not want to see them on the field with an Oklahoma - Alabama - Texas or even the 4-3 or 3-4 teams in NCAA Div I. These DI guys just have more so in the phenomenal athletes category.

Perspective .... Perspective .... Perspective .... Perspective .... and REALITY.

 

[letgoo]

The whole Waco Methodist could start on a UIL team

Tyrone Smith could make impact on the run game of any team
Dalton Sparks is a force in the back passing the ball
Jordan Phillips can snatch over a CB if needed in cluth moments
Ty Kinnard is an overall athlete and can play and POS. most likley
Chris McCloud is also an athlete and can throw if needed and has quick speed and great stength with size

 

[justobserving]

The whole Waco Methodist could start on a UIL team

Tyrone Smith could make impact on the run game of any team
Dalton Sparks is a force in the back passing the ball
Jordan Phillips can snatch over a CB if needed in cluth moments
Ty Kinnard is an overall athlete and can play and POS. most likley
Chris McCloud is also an athlete and can throw if needed and has quick speed and great stength with size

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZ !! Another REALITY CHECK:

• • Waco Methodist is the 95th ranked team by the TOY. They have a 5-3 record
  • They would be a 45 point underdog to 46 SIXMAN teams in the overall rankings. They would be a 5 touchdown underdog to 63 teams in the overall rankings.
  • The highest ranked team they have played is the 45th ranked team who they lost to. Their other opponents are Ranked 69 (loss), 71 (loss), 116 (W), 123 (W), 169 (W), 173 (W), 215 (W)
  • They have not won a game with anyone ranked above 116. The combined records of those teams 15 - 18. Not even .500

* Note - they have not played a UIL team.

You need to carefully read this entire thread and then heed the advice given to Cherry5 .....

 

[eaglesnest]

Forget the Valley comment - do you not thing that there are guys in 6-man that could play 11 man UIL??? My logic is that if you take the top 40 teams, then you equal the size of an average 5A school. I think you could get enough players from the top 40 6-man teams to compete - don't you?? I wouldn't mind trying to coach that group of kids....

Mr. Jsheley,

Coming from someone who played for a highly respected tapps sixman teams, there is no arguement for why or how a private school sixman player could ever step on the field with a 5A public school team. Shane will back me up in the fact that two (maybe three?) of ACHS's players from last season came from Abilene High (5A 11man football) and dominated sixman football. That right there is proof that coming from a 5A 11man program to sixman is a force to be reckoned with, but unless you can give any of these guys a prime example of a TAPPS player going from sixman to 5A school and actually doing something in their football program, then you are wasting your time. I have seen DC play this year. Great sixman team, indeed. But I can assure you, unless it is as a kicker, there is not one player on that team that would make a difference for any decent 5A UIL school in Texas. Good sixman players do not necessarily make good 11man football players. In most cases, it is the other way around. A good "sixman player" is simply a very well-rounded athlete, a good "11man player" is generally much more. Either way, as lifegate said earlier, "covenant does their talking on the field, not on the message boards". Pleae let them do that.

 

[beastmode]

Keenan Ward from Texas Tech says hi

I do agree that it's ridiculous to say that 4 people from one sixman school could start anywhere in the state, yet alone 1, but I will say some of y'all are giving ALOT of credit to 5A athletes. Yeah there are great ones but not all 5A teams have elite athletes at every position.

 

[justobserving]

Keenan Ward from Texas Tech says hi

I do agree that it's ridiculous to say that 4 people from one sixman school could start anywhere in the state, yet alone 1, but I will say some of y'all are giving ALOT of credit to 5A athletes. Yeah there are great ones but not all 5A teams have elite athletes at every position.

Well said Sir - it still leaves the fact there is a LARGE % gap ( 99.75 ) IMHO between just the average 5A player and the 6 man player. Just too many bodies to choose from.

Have you seen some of these guys who are part of these 4A - 5A cheer squads ?? …… What some 6 man coaches wouldn't give to have those guys on their team ….

 

[smokeyjoe53]

JO, I have a nice brick wall you can bang your noggin on when you get tired of this.....................................

 

[justobserving]

Don't get tired … just amused, amazed, aghast and bewidlered. Sometimes I think there are people so sheltered and naive they still believe the world is flat.
Of course that is a valid assumption if your world is 100 yds x 40 yds with goal posts at both ends….

It runs your post count up ...

 

[CowboyP]

It runs your post count up ...

I'm the master at post count bloating...

 

[smokeyjoe53]

It runs your post count up ...

[color=#FF8000[b]]I'm the master at post count bloating...[/b][/color]

That is an understatement.......................

 

[letgoo]

The whole Waco Methodist could start on a UIL team

Tyrone Smith could make impact on the run game of any team
Dalton Sparks is a force in the back passing the ball
Jordan Phillips can snatch over a CB if needed in cluth moments
Ty Kinnard is an overall athlete and can play and POS. most likley
Chris McCloud is also an athlete and can throw if needed and has quick speed and great stength with size

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZ !! Another REALITY CHECK:

• • Waco Methodist is the 95th ranked team by the TOY. They have a 5-3 record
  • They would be a 45 point underdog to 46 SIXMAN teams in the overall rankings. They would be a 5 touchdown underdog to 63 teams in the overall rankings.
  • The highest ranked team they have played is the 45th ranked team who they lost to. Their other opponents are Ranked 69 (loss), 71 (loss), 116 (W), 123 (W), 169 (W), 173 (W), 215 (W)
  • They have not won a game with anyone ranked above 116. The combined records of those teams 15 - 18. Not even .500

* Note - they have not played a UIL team.

You need to carefully read this entire thread and then heed the advice given to Cherry5 .....

They all played for 5-A 11-man teams over texas this is alot of thems first time playing private man six-man ball its not really hard i bet they just learned to work with it cause they all used to play 11-man 5-A!!! to say again and they could do it again GGEEEEZZZ
Tyrone Smith - Cy springs high
Dalton Sparks - Klein high
Gregg Cox - Copperas Cove
Ty Kinnard - Katy High

 

[letgoo]

Keenan Ward from Texas Tech says hi

I do agree that it's ridiculous to say that 4 people from one sixman school could start anywhere in the state, yet alone 1, but I will say some of y'all are giving ALOT of credit to 5A athletes. Yeah there are great ones but not all 5A teams have elite athletes at every position.

Well said Sir - it still leaves the fact there is a LARGE % gap ( 99.75 ) IMHO between just the average 5A player and the 6 man player. Just too many bodies to choose from.

Have you seen some of these guys who are part of these 4A - 5A cheer squads ?? …… What some 6 man coaches wouldn't give to have those guys on their team ….

NO!!!! To be completly honest an Elite 6 man player will always be better then an 11 man if they are playing 6-man ball ... 6 man is faster and not for the weak lungs

 

[Shad Kline]

The whole Waco Methodist could start on a UIL team

Tyrone Smith could make impact on the run game of any team
Dalton Sparks is a force in the back passing the ball
Jordan Phillips can snatch over a CB if needed in cluth moments
Ty Kinnard is an overall athlete and can play and POS. most likley
Chris McCloud is also an athlete and can throw if needed and has quick speed and great stength with size

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZ !! Another REALITY CHECK:

• • Waco Methodist is the 95th ranked team by the TOY. They have a 5-3 record
  • They would be a 45 point underdog to 46 SIXMAN teams in the overall rankings. They would be a 5 touchdown underdog to 63 teams in the overall rankings.
  • The highest ranked team they have played is the 45th ranked team who they lost to. Their other opponents are Ranked 69 (loss), 71 (loss), 116 (W), 123 (W), 169 (W), 173 (W), 215 (W)
  • They have not won a game with anyone ranked above 116. The combined records of those teams 15 - 18. Not even .500

* Note - they have not played a UIL team.

You need to carefully read this entire thread and then heed the advice given to Cherry5 .....

They all played for 5-A 11-man teams over texas this is alot of thems first time playing private man six-man ball its not really hard i bet they just learned to work with it cause they all used to play 11-man 5-A!!! to say again and they could do it again GGEEEEZZZ
Tyrone Smith - Cy springs high
Dalton Sparks - Klein high
Gregg Cox - Copperas Cove
Ty Kinnard - Katy High

So did they start on Varsity? All four of them? Big difference between starting and playing for. If they all started on Varsity of 5A schools, this team is under achieving this year.

I don't disagree that there are a lot of kids that could make the team of some good 3,4, and 5A schools, but there are very few that could start on Varsity for 5A powerhouses. To do so would mean they were good enough for college ball, most 5A starters go to college at least at the juco level and play ball, if you have FOUR of those caliber players, you should win everything.

 

[letgoo]

The whole Waco Methodist could start on a UIL team

Tyrone Smith could make impact on the run game of any team
Dalton Sparks is a force in the back passing the ball
Jordan Phillips can snatch over a CB if needed in cluth moments
Ty Kinnard is an overall athlete and can play and POS. most likley
Chris McCloud is also an athlete and can throw if needed and has quick speed and great stength with size

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZ !! Another REALITY CHECK:

• • Waco Methodist is the 95th ranked team by the TOY. They have a 5-3 record
  • They would be a 45 point underdog to 46 SIXMAN teams in the overall rankings. They would be a 5 touchdown underdog to 63 teams in the overall rankings.
  • The highest ranked team they have played is the 45th ranked team who they lost to. Their other opponents are Ranked 69 (loss), 71 (loss), 116 (W), 123 (W), 169 (W), 173 (W), 215 (W)
  • They have not won a game with anyone ranked above 116. The combined records of those teams 15 - 18. Not even .500

* Note - they have not played a UIL team.

You need to carefully read this entire thread and then heed the advice given to Cherry5 .....

They all played for 5-A 11-man teams over texas this is alot of thems first time playing private man six-man ball its not really hard i bet they just learned to work with it cause they all used to play 11-man 5-A!!! to say again and they could do it again GGEEEEZZZ
Tyrone Smith - Cy springs high
Dalton Sparks - Klein high
Gregg Cox - Copperas Cove
Ty Kinnard - Katy High

So did they start on Varsity? All four of them? Big difference between starting and playing for. If they all started on Varsity of 5A schools, this team is under achieving this year.

I don't disagree that there are a lot of kids that could make the team of some good 3,4, and 5A schools, but there are very few that could start on Varsity for 5A powerhouses. To do so would mean they were good enough for college ball, most 5A starters go to college at least at the juco level and play ball, if you have FOUR of those caliber players, you should win everything.

NO SIR... most 5-A starters dont play college ball ! only 2 kids from midway signed onto state teams this year! and ha yes two started one was a lineman and one was a RB(or something like that) another was 2nd string but played 1st a couple times and the QB now played CB (from what ive seen and people told me)

 

[WESTTXFAN7]

ok, i had to get in on this subject. I coached at the 4A and 5A level for a number of years before getting out of coaching and into private business. My son plays 6 man football now, due to the fact he lives with my ex wife. After watching the 6 man game for a few years, there is no comparison between 6 man and 11 man. Yes there are a few kids that would be able to make the immediate transition between 6 man and 2A -3A ball, but 5A, no way. I will say that with proper coaching and work in the weight room, some of them eventually would be able to play, even up to the 5A level. A big difference I see, and I expect to get blasted here, is on the teaching of technique and attention to detail. I know coaching at the 5A level, every step, every hand placement, angle, etc. was taught, drilled and drilled again. Fom what I have seen at he 6 man level, that attention to detail is not there. Yes, i know not every program is the same, and I dont want to step on any toes. I see that difference in good 5A-4A programs and some 2A and 1A programs also. But I want to emphasize 6 man and 11 man are different games!! Look at the Fort Hancock dynasty in the 90s. What happened when they went up to 11 man? They were a dominant 6 man team but when they went up to 11 man i dont believe they won more than one or two games in a season. I see kids dominate in the 6 man ranks that would be good safeties, corners, maybe some running backs in 11 man, but not right away. Its a different game!

 

[justobserving]

ok, i had to get in on this subject. I coached at the 4A and 5A level for a number of years before getting out of coaching and into private business. My son plays 6 man football now, due to the fact he lives with my ex wife. After watching the 6 man game for a few years, there is no comparison between 6 man and 11 man. Yes there are a few kids that would be able to make the immediate transition between 6 man and 2A -3A ball, but 5A, no way. I will say that with proper coaching and work in the weight room, some of them eventually would be able to play, even up to the 5A level. A big difference I see, and I expect to get blasted here, is on the teaching of technique and attention to detail. I know coaching at the 5A level, every step, every hand placement, angle, etc. was taught, drilled and drilled again. Fom what I have seen at he 6 man level, that attention to detail is not there. Yes, i know not every program is the same, and I dont want to step on any toes. I see that difference in good 5A-4A programs and some 2A and 1A programs also. But I want to emphasize 6 man and 11 man are different games!! Look at the Fort Hancock dynasty in the 90s. What happened when they went up to 11 man? They were a dominant 6 man team but when they went up to 11 man i dont believe they won more than one or two games in a season. I see kids dominate in the 6 man ranks that would be good safeties, corners, maybe some running backs in 11 man, but not right away. Its a different game!

This is a perspective that most don't have. I coached that the Jr. High, High School levels from 1A thru 4A (who played 5A schools) and at the College level. You just can not have the base line for judgement unless you have been there or been a player and close knowledgeable fan and observer of all levels for years.

 

[Shad Kline]

NO SIR... most 5-A starters dont play college ball ! only 2 kids from midway signed onto state teams this year! and ha yes two started one was a lineman and one was a RB(or something like that) another was 2nd string but played 1st a couple times and the QB now played CB (from what ive seen and people told me)

Only 2? So who are these 22 kids? Including 5 true freshman?

edited: make that 6 true freshman, Abercrombie didn't list his class, but i looked it up.
edited again: make that 7, Justin Richter

Austin McDaniel (DB, JR) Waco Midway
Courtney Washington (WR, FR) Waco Midway
Kevin Thomas (WR, RS-FR) Midway
Trey Graham (TE, JR) Midway
Mark Martinez (LB, RS-FR) Midway
Shakiel Randolph (DB, FR) Midway
Robert Lewis (WR/CB, FR) Midway
Justin Richter (LB) Waco Midway
Anthony Betters (CB, RS-FR) Midway
Beau Blackshear (OL, RS-FR) Midway
Lee Bristow (LB, RS-FR) Midway
Ahmad Dixon (CB, JR) Midway
Charles Kelly (LB, SO) Midway
Zach Northern (DS, JR) Midway
Levi Norwood (IR, SO) Midway
Orion Stewart (DB, FR) Midway
Scott Newberry (K, SR) Midway
Logan Simpson (WR, FR) Midway
Wesley Abercrombie (LB) Waco Midway
Jonne Wamstaff (DB, RS-FR) Midway
Cody Stidham (DS, RS-FR) Midway
John Hubert (RB, JR) Midway

Ok, so maybe not "most" but quite a few, i count 22 out of lets say 70-75 starters over the last 4 years, so slightly less than a third.

 

[justobserving]

NO!!!! To be completly honest an Elite 6 man player will always be better then an 11 man if they are playing 6-man ball ... 6 man is faster and not for the weak lungs

No, 6 man appears faster because of the "Space". I will not argue the point, which is true, that 6 man players are in good physical shape. Most play both ways and stay on the field a good 95% of the time. That being said being in shape at a 5.2 40 yd time doesn't make you faster than a 4.6 kid.

A 5.2 kid in space with 2 or 3 guys chasing him is going to look like a world beater.

What do you think the speed and ability of say 5A running back would be? Much faster I would say than 80-90% of 6man players. How many 50-60 yard runs do you see in an eleven man game? How many little dump off passes that turn into 40-80 yard plays do you see in 11 man ball? Not near the number of 6 man for sure. Too few players and too much space.

In 6 man when your one fastest kid or your one biggest kid gets past the first wave of tacklers (2 at the point of attack) it is a wide open field for the player against the rest of the average players on the opposing team. How many 11 man games do you see the Quarterback or in the case of 6 man also the Spreadback ( these two are usually the fastest kids on the team) running around for 6-8-10-12 seconds avoiding the average players from the other team. Not often because he has 4 or 5 guys after him and still 6 others to cover the field. This chasing continues until 3 or 4 defensive players commit to stopping his little ballet and then it's a little dump pass to a receiver in wide open spaces vs 1 or 2 tacklers who are most likely on the other side of the field.

Now the kicker is this seemingly awesome athlete would just be average to less than average on a large school team. Now stepping up to the Ethridges, Colungas, and Moores who were and are elites and they might, say might have had a chance to play on an upper level UIL team.

I have seen one player in my years of watching 6 man that I KNOW could have played at any UIL level. He was 6'3" tall and weighed around 215-220. He ran a sub 50 400 meters. Had the best hands I have ever seen on a receiver. He ran around, through and over every team and player he faced. He was a man among men. Didn't play college ball but was recruited to be and did turn into a world class decathlete who competed NCAA DI Track and Field 4 years and qualified for the Olympic trials. That is one out of many.

How long have you been watching sixman football ?

 

[letgoo]

NO SIR... most 5-A starters dont play college ball ! only 2 kids from midway signed onto state teams this year! and ha yes two started one was a lineman and one was a RB(or something like that) another was 2nd string but played 1st a couple times and the QB now played CB (from what ive seen and people told me)

Only 2? So who are these 22 kids? Including 5 true freshman?

edited: make that 6 true freshman, Abercrombie didn't list his class, but i looked it up.
edited again: make that 7, Justin Richter

Austin McDaniel (DB, JR) Waco Midway
Courtney Washington (WR, FR) Waco Midway
Kevin Thomas (WR, RS-FR) Midway
Trey Graham (TE, JR) Midway
Mark Martinez (LB, RS-FR) Midway
Shakiel Randolph (DB, FR) Midway
Robert Lewis (WR/CB, FR) Midway
Justin Richter (LB) Waco Midway
Anthony Betters (CB, RS-FR) Midway
Beau Blackshear (OL, RS-FR) Midway
Lee Bristow (LB, RS-FR) Midway
Ahmad Dixon (CB, JR) Midway
Charles Kelly (LB, SO) Midway
Zach Northern (DS, JR) Midway
Levi Norwood (IR, SO) Midway
Orion Stewart (DB, FR) Midway
Scott Newberry (K, SR) Midway
Logan Simpson (WR, FR) Midway
Wesley Abercrombie (LB) Waco Midway
Jonne Wamstaff (DB, RS-FR) Midway
Cody Stidham (DS, RS-FR) Midway
John Hubert (RB, JR) Midway

Ok, so maybe not "most" but quite a few, i count 22 out of lets say 70-75 starters over the last 4 years, so slightly less than a third.

Thats not all from last year and they were walk-ons to the team

 

[WESTTXFAN7]

I honestly dont know why this discussion is has dragged on for so long. If you want to talk speed, look at track times. I know everyone was so excited when 6 man got its own track division this year. Why? If the 6 man players are faster, why arent they dominating against the 1As in track? I am not bad mouthing 6 man, but lets be realistic here. I realize all the daddys and mamas out there think their boys could compete with anyone, but in all honesty it isnt true. My son is a 6'2, 170lb freshman starting for a pretty good 6 man team, but right now would he even sniff varsity on the 3A down the road? No. The analogy I would use is "big fish, little pond." Someone earlier said they had a kid starting for them as a freshman and he was a great athlete, and now he is the #2 QB at Cooper as a junior. That illustrates the point perfectly. Not to take anything away from the kid, but a great athlete and starter as a freshman at the 6 man level is a backup as a junior at Cooper. I know Cooper has a great program, my cousin coaches there.

I know someone volunteered to coach the top 40 6 man players in the state against some 5A 11 man teams. Well, i will volunteer to take the top 12 11 man players in the state and play any 6 man all star team you want to put together. Any takers?