Gordon still hasn't played anyone yet...

[C. LaTransviejo]

I think the spread on May vs WB was like 32 for May. What the toy doesn’t factor is those deep west Texas pockets to pay off the refs. Lol

I know that this statement was meant as a joke. But, there have been too many instances this season of just really blatant bias by officials. Why? I’m not sure. Was one Coach personal friends with someone on the crew? Did the crew have some other personal interest in trying to level the playing field with their calls? I don’t know why, but I do know that it doesn’t take very many of those kind of questionable calls to really start to take the starch out of a team.

 

[Mike]

But, there have been too many instances this season of just really blatant bias by officials. Why?

I'd assume this happens for two primary reasons. First of all, the refs are human and humans make mistakes. They can't see everything and don't always see everything the same as everyone else. Second, because of the ref shortage, there are more and more rookie or inexperienced refs. Sure, they all have training but you can't train 10 years of experience into a guy during scrimmages and they just can't afford to keep training them any longer than they absolutely have to because, again, they're short handed.

I'm sure bias does come into play on occasion because of my first point...they're human...however, I imagine those instances are very few and far between and, shorthanded or not, I assume refs who are found to be purposely influencing a game are quickly dismissed.

 

[dammitbobby]

Well, coaches get exactly what they wish for - every single game, coaches have to be in agreement to pick a specific chapter, if not a specific crew, per UIL bylaws. Benjamin, for example, has utilized the exact same officials, from the same chapter, for the last 2 weeks, meaning that Klondike and Jayton were fine with that. It's entirely up to the coaches, not the officials or chapters, nor UIL (UIL will be happy to step in and assign a chapter if they can't agree), so if they don't pick great officials, that's entirely on them, don't blame the officials. There's a LOT of very good officials who know 6-man inside and out (because they call it every week) sitting at home in the playoffs, because coaches always want to use officials from Fort Worth, Tyler, Houston, San Antonio, the large metro chapters instead. Why you would want officials who don't call a lot of six man, I have no idea. But that's the jacked up system we have that allows coaches to pick their officials, which is something that no other level of play, in any sport, allows to happen, ever - and for good reason. Can you imagine the uproar if Nick Saban got the officials he wanted for a bowl game, and had a controversial call go his way? Who gets blamed for that? Who SHOULD get blamed for that?

 

[dammitbobby]

I'd assume this happens for two primary reasons. First of all, the refs are human and humans make mistakes. They can't see everything and don't always see everything the same as everyone else. Second, because of the ref shortage, there are more and more rookie or inexperienced refs. Sure, they all have training but you can't train 10 years of experience into a guy during scrimmages and they just can't afford to keep training them any longer than they absolutely have to because, again, they're short handed.

I'm sure bias does come into play on occasion because of my first point...they're human...however, I imagine those instances are very few and far between and, shorthanded or not, I assume refs who are found to be purposely influencing a game are quickly dismissed.

Not only that (shortage) but coaches often ask for 4 officials instead of 5, because they claim they can't afford to pay a 5th (spoiler: they can.) So like anything else, the quality of the officiating goes down when you have 4, no matter how great the officials are; 4 officials have much more area to cover than a 5-man crew. With 5 officials, you don't get more flags, you get better quality flags, because the officials can focus better.

Want better quality? Write your coach, congresscritter, whoever, tell them to ask for 5 officials.

 

[Tigerfan85]

When I was a ref. We did have a shortage and I believe that’s still the case now. However, I never heard of or was a part of anything that was not on the up and up. Biggest issue is the shortage so here’s how it goes at least back then. The more experienced crews did 11am games. They try to mix in a seasoned white hat on a sixman crew but it doesn’t always work. So yea sixman gets the rookies a lot of them first year refs with a couple weeks of scrimmages to train and the thrown to the wolves. I’d say 90% of those new guys never even seen a sixman game until the started to ref. So I can see a school finding a crew they like and requesting them doesn’t mean that’s who they get but generally if the chapter can work it out then yes that happens. That’s not a bad thing. We all love sixman ball but be realistic during regular season you’re not gonna get the more experienced refs. Then even in playoffs you may get a seasoned crew but doesn’t mean they are a sixman crew. So y’all either sign up to ref or have some understanding how it all works.
Also as side note the experienced guys wanted 11man because the gate take in was usually a lot better. Not sure how they get paid these days but then it was a base plus gate %

 

[FenceLineGuy]

Yep bought and paid for. Lol

.........only because he kept talking about his gymnastics experience and symmetry during calls

 

[Tigerfan85]

.........only because he kept talking about his gymnastics experience and symmetry during calls

That west Texas oil money runs deep. Lol. He was too good with his signals. Like he had been practicing too much. You know like a guy would that’s on the payroll.

 

[dammitbobby]

When I was a ref. We did have a shortage and I believe that’s still the case now. However, I never heard of or was a part of anything that was not on the up and up. Biggest issue is the shortage so here’s how it goes at least back then. The more experienced crews did 11am games. They try to mix in a seasoned white hat on a sixman crew but it doesn’t always work. So yea sixman gets the rookies a lot of them first year refs with a couple weeks of scrimmages to train and the thrown to the wolves. I’d say 90% of those new guys never even seen a sixman game until the started to ref. So I can see a school finding a crew they like and requesting them doesn’t mean that’s who they get but generally if the chapter can work it out then yes that happens. That’s not a bad thing. We all love sixman ball but be realistic during regular season you’re not gonna get the more experienced refs. Then even in playoffs you may get a seasoned crew but doesn’t mean they are a sixman crew. So y’all either sign up to ref or have some understanding how it all works.
Also as side note the experienced guys wanted 11man because the gate take in was usually a lot better. Not sure how they get paid these days but then it was a base plus gate %

Agree, regular season it's tough to get the experience we want to on every game, and the way it's always been, the way it always will be, is 11-man games get the better officials. That said - there's a ton of officials who love working six man, and a handful that feel six man is beneath them and turn back 6-man games.

My point remains for the playoffs though - there are a LOT of good officials sitting at home simply because coaches want a 'major' chapter who they feel are better officials. And that is 100% not the case.

 

[Tigerfan85]

Disclosure to all newbies on here. This a discussion that’s been going on for two years. It’s just for fun. So don’t read anything into it. Besides we all know it was a catch plus pass interference plus they paid the dang refs off.

 

[Tigerfan85]

Agree, regular season it's tough to get the experience we want to on every game, and the way it's always been, the way it always will be, is 11-man games get the better officials. That said - there's a ton of officials who love working six man, and a handful that feel six man is beneath them and turn back 6-man games.

My point remains for the playoffs though - there are a LOT of good officials sitting at home simply because coaches want a 'major' chapter who they feel are better officials. And that is 100% not the case.

I agree with you. We did have experienced refs that flat would not do a sixman game mainly due to difference in money. Like I said not sure how they do it now but if it’s still based off gate % then the problem will forever stay.

 

[dammitbobby]

I agree with you. We did have experienced refs that flat would not do a sixman game mainly due to difference in money. Like I said not sure how they do it now but if it’s still based off gate % then the problem will forever stay.

see here https://sixmanfootball.com/threads/...-in-six-man-football.37482/page-2#post-289317

I think for some officials (that I know at least) it's an affront to their dignity to work a six man game, moreso than a pay issue.

 

[Tigerfan85]

I agree with you. We did have experienced refs that flat would not do a sixman game mainly due to difference in money. Like I said not sure how they do it now but if it’s still based off gate % then the problem will forever stay.

Personally I took all the sixman games they would let me have. Less money but also half the work most nights and I could be back home early

 

[dammitbobby]

And that's the motivation/incentive for some... I hate games that are 45ers, I love officiating that much, I don't want to be on the field for half a game.

 

[Tigerfan85]

And that's the motivation/incentive for some... I hate games that are 45ers, I love officiating that much, I don't want to be on the field for half a game.

To be fair I was single back then. lol.

 

[That1fan]

Yep bought and paid for. Lol

Gosh I remember that game. It was a good one.

 

[Tigerfan85]

Gosh I remember that game. It was a good one.

Instant classic. One of those it’s to bad someone has to lose. I tease but I can’t be mad WB did what was thought to be impossible by most. It was something to see. That’s why I always say you can’t rattle WB. They just keep playing their game. Yea we lost but man what a game.

 

[sixmanfan2007]

Yep bought and paid for. Lol

I believe May missed 3 extra point attempts in that game. I think Westbrook missed 4. I could be wrong.
play in question

 

[sixmanfan2007]

I believe May missed 3 extra point attempts in that game. I think Westbrook missed 4. I could be wrong.

This link below shows May missed 3 attempts and Wesbrook 4

Westbrook vs May (Dec 15, 2021)

 

[sixmanfan2007]

As as this topic is concerned Gordon has played and ended 14 games by the mercy rule.
Common opponents
Gordon 58 GardenCity 12 Gordon 54 Jonesboro 8
Westrook 60 Garden City 8 Westbrook 60 Jonesboro 14
It looks like they are almost evemly matched.

 

[gameofsix]

As as this topic is concerned Gordon has played and ended 14 games by the mercy rule.
Common opponents
Gordon 58 GardenCity 12 Gordon 54 Jonesboro 8
Westrook 60 Garden City 8 Westbrook 60 Jonesboro 14
It looks like they are almost evemly matched.

To go even further you have some of these deals...

Gordon 64 Abbott 16
Abbott 78 Borden Co 56
Westbrook 110 Borden Co 65

Westbrook 76 Hermleigh 30
Hermleigh 42 Throckmorton 22
Gordon 48 Throckmorton 0