What do you Officials think?

[oldergoat]

This situation was in an 11 man game but have to wonder about the officials. It was a 2A game.
Situation: 4th down ball on Team B's (Black Jerseys) 43. Line to gain is the Team B 42 (4th and one). Play run and ball is marked at the 42 and 1/2 yard line (on a turf field). The spot looked to be good and was marked by the Headlines and the visiting team was Team A (White Jerseys). Chain is on the 42. Officials rule Team A (White Jerseys) was short of the Line to Gain (correct call). Ball is spotted at least full ball short of the Tick Mark of the 42. The officials exchange balls and spot the ball for Team A (Black Jerseys) with the point (front) of the ball touching the Team A's (Black Jerseys) 42 yard line. The chain had been moved to the Team A (Black Jerseys) 42 and 1/2 yard line and was never reset to the 42. This forced Team A (Black Jerseys) to have to gain at least 10 and 1/2 yards for a First Down.

Based on the "new" spot of the ball:
A) Should White Team be awarded a First Down - Where the ball was placed they had reached the line to gain.

or

B) Should the ball be re-spotted at the correct yard line

Another question is should these officials, at least the White Hat and Umpire be allowed to continue to call Varsity High School games?

For us six-man fans don't get to upset with the officials because in the past 5 years I have seen a lot worse than this in 5A games.

 

[freeagent]

Of course, I remember being told the story of the veteran chain crew in a South Texas town.

These guys had a routine that you could easily miss. They would regularly set the chains about a 1/2 yard short (9-1/2 yards) when they were on offense and a 1/2 yard long (10-1/2 yards) when they were on defense. I was told it was finally "caught" when an opponent did a frame by frame run on a game film and saw the crew make the quick step to give the home team an advantage.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

That's a really clever scheme! While I obviously do not endorse the practice, it makes sense because the home team is more likely to cause the refs problems than the visiting team. Although it could totally change the course of an 11-man game, especially for certain kinds of offenses like the Slot-T, there are so many breakaways in sixman that it would have a a much lower impact if a ref tried it.

By the way, most sixman officials are bad mostly out of ignorance about sixman rather than nefarious intentions. I think every fan of sixman should keep that in mind.

 

[JasonTX]

I'm having a hard time seeing what you are talking about. What should happen when they were a 1/2 short at the 42 1/2. The ball goes over and will be spotted either on the 42 or the 43 the chain should be moved to the nose of the football. So instead of going 42 1/2 to 32 1/2 for a first down, we'll instead go 42 to 32. Next time you watch college or NFL on TV notice where like a punt rolls out of bound in between yardlines. You'll never see a series start in the middle of a yardline. They'll move it up to the full yardline. This way we know where 10 yards is so no need to measure when you know the line of scrimmage is on the yardline and we move 10 yards up field. So 42 to 32 is 10 yards. Move the chains for the next series.

Another one you'll see is when the ball is turned over on the southside of the 50. We'll then move the ball to the northside of the 50 when the other team takes over. Been like this for ages.

 

[oldergoat]

Jason I fully understand what you are saying and yes on punts and turnovers I have no problem with ball placement on the line. And yes "officials" have been doing it this way for a while. But in fact the official is changing the true position of the ball. And what happens if you have a 4th down just outside the 1 yard line and the offense is stopped short. If you "move" the ball inside the 1 you could be impacting the game. If the defense stops the O for a loss it could be a safety and kicking to the other team. And I understand the argument that the O should have done better, but a loss from the 1 yard vs loss from say the 1 an 1/2 might make a difference.
Again I understand why we were told to spot ball on the line but on a turn over on downs I always left the ball where it was. That is the only fair way to do it.
Also if you start a series on the 20 and team A makes a first down at the 35 and 1/2 (30 and 1/2 for 11 man) are you going to give them extra yards and move the ball to the 36 (or 31). In effect to you could assist the offense by 5 yards on a given drive.
Will say for the average fan they never notice that placement of the ball. It just jumped out when I saw what they did. Also caused a little headache for the Headlines. After the ball was spotted the coach wanted the first down.

 

[freeagent]

That's a really clever scheme! While I obviously do not endorse the practice, it makes sense because the home team is more likely to cause the refs problems than the visiting team. Although it could totally change the course of an 11-man game, especially for certain kinds of offenses like the Slot-T, there are so many breakaways in sixman that it would have a a much lower impact if a ref tried it.

By the way, most sixman officials are bad mostly out of ignorance about sixman rather than nefarious intentions. I think every fan of sixman should keep that in mind.

This happened many, many years ago (maybe 20-30 years or more, because the guy who told me the story played at the visiting school and he's now getting the senior citizens specials at Dennys), so my guess is that it was in the days before most schools marked every yard line.

And I'm sure the story has been embellished over the years. I know mine are. You know, like how I walked to school 10 miles in the snow every day. Uphill both ways. Next year, it will be 11 miles.

 

[oldergoat]

Free Agent I have heard those stories (walking to school). I knew a young man while in High School walked up hill to school and back home. He lived across the street from the school and it was actually uphill to the school, maybe 2 or 3 feet but none the less up hill. During football he would walk home from the field house which was some what lower than the house, maybe 10 - 15 feet, but again up hill. So yes he did have to walk up hill both directions. Now as far as in the snow and bare foot, maybe once per year in the snow and he always had nice shoes. Oh yea this was in the late 90's. He loves to tell the story and it is true.

 

[JasonTX]

Jason I fully understand what you are saying and yes on punts and turnovers I have no problem with ball placement on the line. And yes "officials" have been doing it this way for a while. But in fact the official is changing the true position of the ball. And what happens if you have a 4th down just outside the 1 yard line and the offense is stopped short. If you "move" the ball inside the 1 you could be impacting the game.

Well, when the snapper addresses the ball they almost always "adjust" it forward by 1/2 a yard so they get that back.