ive sent film to Taso. As a coach; I've never heard back from Taso. Yes as a coach, I can scratch a ref but I've never met a ref that I felt was that bad. I have had some who were friends. Had one tell me he knew that he made the wrong call but was not going to change it. I have not nor will I ever blame a loss on a ref. I do think that all young people in college who want to coach should have to take an officiating class and work as an official.
UIL Executive Committee meeting. Zephyr
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
Texlonghorn75
Six-man expert
I believe for the sake of having sufficient refs which would lead to having better skilled refs would be to increase their compensation (Money)!!. It goes without saying it that there has to be that incentive for more men to get involved in calling games. I have been around six man football since 1965 and know that certain people I knew that would have been great refs and loved the game but never attempted it. Maybe if some where recruited on a 2 man ref team basis where they called games with a friend until they felt confident to call games with other refs which they might not know. I believe the fear of being ridiculed by fans is a major impediment . No one will ever get all the calls right, but practice will make them better. Right?? Maybe requiring each district to recruit, train and make available enough refs to cover district games would be an idea to implement. Having extra refs trained and ready to go would be a positive thing, help with calling junior high and JV games too. Better pay would be a driving force to make that happen. If our schools can train future teachers, pharmacists, nurses, ranchers and farmers they can train future refs too.
GridironJoe
11-man fan
You are right it is a refs part time job...they get to go on to their life with some spending money. Bad refs can cost coaches their jobs. Sending film in doesnt work, scratching doesnt always work they still show up, and the uil will never side with coaches even when coaches are right. So I dont want to hear your boo hoo sympathy for bad officials.
Redraider092
Six-man fan
Texlonghorn75":357bj4p3 said:
Throwing more money at it is not going to change anything much more. Game fees have increased by 50% over the past 10 years but the number of newer officials has not increased but rather continues to decrease. Besides, many school districts will not be able to afford many more pay increases. For all varsity games it costs a minimum $100 per official. Most 6-man schools are more than 30 miles outside their respective chapter city so that game fee is more like $130 to $150 per official. Assuming the game last 2 hours and then account for 2 hours total driving time (1 hour each way) that comes out to $32.50 per hour for the official. That's a damn good hourly wage but with this being a part-time gig the officials don't make enough money for anything substantial. As Mr. James states in this thread, it's a great part-time job for young, college students but unfortunately those college students only call for 2 or 3 seasons and then move on to graduation and life and most do not continue officiating. And that there is were the biggest problem lies. Each year a there a good number of new officials recruited. But each year only 10-20% of those officials return. They do not return for a multitude of issues. In no particular order: Abuse, Job, Personal Schedule, Laziness to Learn, pay and, my favorite, they don't understand the game like they thought they did. This last one applies to many "fans". They think they know the rules and how to apply the rules but when they actually take the brave step out on the field they learn how ignorant they really are.
Texlonghorn75
Six-man expert
I believe if the officials were paid $50.00 an hour there would a whole lot more interest in officiating games. Call it greed but Greed has always been good in America and even better in our beloved state of Texas. Pay them enough and they will turn out in droves to call games which is what six man football needs. They are necessary for the product we all enjoy watching and our children participate in. Show them more money and they will turn out. Once there are enough referees interested in working games , then the quality control issues could be implemented. The best referees would(or could) work more games since they like the pay and the other referees would have incentive to get better at their craft. Better to have trained referees standing in line to work than no line at all. If there aren't enough referees at the start of a game there isn't going to be any receipts at the gate.
techster2000
Six-man fan
GridironJoe":30fy7jbg said:
Give me one example of a bad ref coasting a coach his job. I’ll wait. I understand their are bad refs. But the refs we have are all we got. Don’t have a ref, don’t have a game. It’s getting harder every year to find good ones. The only boo hooing I’ll be doing is for the kids that can’t participate because of a ref shortage.
FCSA football
Six-man fan
I agree that throwing more money at a problem won’t solve it.
Congress has repeatedly increased their pay.
Look what we got for that.
Just saying...........
But thanks to the refs, without them we won’t have games. Thanks guys .
Congress has repeatedly increased their pay.
Look what we got for that.
Just saying...........
But thanks to the refs, without them we won’t have games. Thanks guys .
D
Deleted member 21909
Guest
I think one major problem is sixman usually gets the least experienced officals when it is the hardest to call due to the rules changes. While my limited experience in officials in football has never been horrible, the fact they can disqualify players in basketball can be abused to an absurd degree. I literally wore a different number one game because the ref liked to call fouls on me. In football, you always get a due over minus more yardage for a first down.
Mexican Englishman
Six-man fan
The reason for the ref shortage is not money, the money is actually pretty good. The reason is the total disrespect alot of coaches have toward officials. Not all coaches, but a good majority. I have not been to alot of games the past couple of years, but the games I have been to, I could not believe how coaches were just addressing the officials. The coaches have caused this shortage, so I believe the only way to redeem this problem is to have coaches call games once they have been eliminated from playoffs or not made playoffs at all. Who better to call the more important games than the ones who know the rule book frontwards and backwards?
techster2000
Six-man fan
That’s a great idea Mexican Englishman! While we’re at it let’s let the brilliant fans coach! They know what play to call already!
Mexican Englishman
Six-man fan
After some of the games I have attended recently, that would not be a bad idea.techster2000":2wy3xxlf said:
It's good to see this discussion on the officiating shortage. I've been officiating for 19 years and have worked everything form peewee to college. I'm still working for that perfect officiated game. I suspect it will happen in a game where the players play perfect and the coaches coach perfect and the fans are well behaved. My gut tells me none of those will ever happen. There have been a couple of people respond about the pay. It is true that we get $100 minimum for a varsity game and that's if you are within 30 miles for the chapter center point. What hasn't been mentioned is the time we do put in. Officiating comes before my career. My work boss knows this. If the boss tells me I can't take off any more, guess what, I'm taking off. If there is a game at 7:00 PM, I have to pull off work with no pay at 3:00 PM head home and get cleaned up and travel to the game. We arrive on the game site 2 hours before kickoff. Unless we get a halftime game, we can typically work a 2 hour game at the sixman level and upwards of 3 hours for 11 man. I usually arrive back home at midnight so that's 9 hours that I have invested to that game. Then I begin submitting film requests on HUDL for all of our chapters games and by the time I wake up sometime the next day I have all of our chapters games and begin watching them. By about 10 PM each Sunday I have watched over 15 games and made notes for all the crews of both the good and bad things they did. Those then get added to a training video which usually has about 40 plays from all the games and we watch those and discuss at our chapter meeting on Mondays. Then during the week there is a about a 15 play video quiz where the members will watch a clip and then answer a question about it. The training in all chapters is very similar to ours and a lot of time goes into training the members. There will always be missed calls and the perception of bad officials but I can tell you that I have never met one official who didn't have their heart in the right place for this game. The biggest challenge is to retain members. We had over 80 people we had recruited in the offseason and our first meeting in June only 2 showed up. We eventually got 15 to join and that's a good number for our chapter, but it doesn't help when we lose 15 so our numbers didn't go anywhere. This is typical for any chapter. I've always had an idea to require each school to recruit 1 person from their community each year. There are always plenty of parents whose kid has graduated. We will guarantee you the best spot in the stadium to watch a game. If you think you love football now, I will guarantee that you will find an even deeper love for the game when you don the stripes. We don't turn any age away and women can join as well. The 30 year old group seems to be a good age because they are mature and are usually settled in with their lives. The only rules we have is that all birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, etc. must be put off until after the football season is over. Plan your pregnancies accordingly so your new baby isn't born during the season. You will not find a better group of guys to be friends with. The camaraderie is beyond anything I have ever experienced. My best friends are officials. My selected pall bearers will all be officials. The preacher will be an official.
FCSA football
Six-man fan
A lot of this boils down to leadership and a commitment to continuing training and development of the officials
From the Chapter Leadership. Some Chapters are head and shoulders above others in this regard. Even though we are the visitors, we will pay for the Officals IF AND ONLY IF they come from a Chapter we have confidence in. There are some Chapters and other Organizations of Officals where we will not play if the home team gets their Officals from one of those chapters and we make that clear to the opposing coach before scheduling. In my 50 years of coaching I had one kid that sustained a devastating injury due to the Officals lack of enforcing the rules. That was One too many. He was an outstanding athlete in EVERY sport he competed in. Not only did it end his sports career, he still suffers from that injury today. He is in 40’s now.
I blame myself. As a young coach I didn’t have the courage to pull my kids off the field and go home. In any business, job or endeavor you find people that have no business being in that profession. Blind allegiance to people simply because they are in a particular position is simple mindedness and laziness combined and produce a potential offspring of disaster for others. While I hold Officals in the highest regard for their dedication, there are also those who have “badgeitis”. “ I have the authority and by God I’m going to use it”. Those are in a very small minority but nevertheless they exist. For the UIL or any other authority to offer blind approval to Officals is playing with other peoples’ lives. To become better it is imperative that at times the status quo be challenged, otherwise mediocrity prevails and there is no reason to improve.
My opinion and observations......
From the Chapter Leadership. Some Chapters are head and shoulders above others in this regard. Even though we are the visitors, we will pay for the Officals IF AND ONLY IF they come from a Chapter we have confidence in. There are some Chapters and other Organizations of Officals where we will not play if the home team gets their Officals from one of those chapters and we make that clear to the opposing coach before scheduling. In my 50 years of coaching I had one kid that sustained a devastating injury due to the Officals lack of enforcing the rules. That was One too many. He was an outstanding athlete in EVERY sport he competed in. Not only did it end his sports career, he still suffers from that injury today. He is in 40’s now.
I blame myself. As a young coach I didn’t have the courage to pull my kids off the field and go home. In any business, job or endeavor you find people that have no business being in that profession. Blind allegiance to people simply because they are in a particular position is simple mindedness and laziness combined and produce a potential offspring of disaster for others. While I hold Officals in the highest regard for their dedication, there are also those who have “badgeitis”. “ I have the authority and by God I’m going to use it”. Those are in a very small minority but nevertheless they exist. For the UIL or any other authority to offer blind approval to Officals is playing with other peoples’ lives. To become better it is imperative that at times the status quo be challenged, otherwise mediocrity prevails and there is no reason to improve.
My opinion and observations......
Edward Golden
Six-man fan
Future coaches should be required to take officiating classes while going to college. While in this class sign up with a chapter and referee at least two years.
FCSA football
Six-man fan
Quite a few college students do sign up to officiate intramural sports on campus, and get paid for it!
An introduction to being an official with a very up close and personal group of players, coaches and fans!
Baptism by peers !
An introduction to being an official with a very up close and personal group of players, coaches and fans!
Baptism by peers !
FCSA football
Six-man fan
Response to JasonTx’s quote:
“the only rules we have is that all birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, etc. must be put off until after the football season is over. Plan your pregnancies accordingly so your new baby isn't born during the Season.”
In reading your comments I applauded your dedication, however it begs I comment on your quote above.
In the mid 1990’s I was interviewing for a job I really wanted and needed. It was a small base with large commissions. The VP I was interviewing with was expounding on the value of the large commissions verdus “family time” and went on to say that “last Saturday my son was the starting pitcher for his team but I missed it because I made a $ 10,000.00 dollar commission instead.
I sat there a few moments and then said “ My son is dead. I would give every dollar I might ever make to see him play one more game”.
Be careful that your admirable dedication doesn’t cause you to miss out on you kids lives.
Years later I found out that he slowed down significantly and spent more time with his family, which was good because I also found out not too long after that he died of Pancreatic Cancer. Probably was around 48 Yoa.
I understand they had a similar “The only rules we have is that all birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, etc. must be put off until after the sales season is over. Plan your pregnancies accordingly so your new baby isn't born during the season, However, a lot of good family memories both before and after his diagnosis were made while ignoring the rule.
Memento Mori ..........,, live for your kids and family.
“the only rules we have is that all birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, etc. must be put off until after the football season is over. Plan your pregnancies accordingly so your new baby isn't born during the Season.”
In reading your comments I applauded your dedication, however it begs I comment on your quote above.
In the mid 1990’s I was interviewing for a job I really wanted and needed. It was a small base with large commissions. The VP I was interviewing with was expounding on the value of the large commissions verdus “family time” and went on to say that “last Saturday my son was the starting pitcher for his team but I missed it because I made a $ 10,000.00 dollar commission instead.
I sat there a few moments and then said “ My son is dead. I would give every dollar I might ever make to see him play one more game”.
Be careful that your admirable dedication doesn’t cause you to miss out on you kids lives.
Years later I found out that he slowed down significantly and spent more time with his family, which was good because I also found out not too long after that he died of Pancreatic Cancer. Probably was around 48 Yoa.
I understand they had a similar “The only rules we have is that all birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, etc. must be put off until after the sales season is over. Plan your pregnancies accordingly so your new baby isn't born during the season, However, a lot of good family memories both before and after his diagnosis were made while ignoring the rule.
Memento Mori ..........,, live for your kids and family.
If you are a coach and keeping your job is dependent upon the officials, you aren't a very good coach, and are probably fired at the end of the year regardless.
As an official for the past 6 football seasons I could give a rip about sympathy. I also don't cotton to drama queen coaches, or parents, or even players thinking they are experts on the rules. From my experience - which is limited - the ones with actual knowledge of the rules aren't prone to childish tantrums.
I agree that most chapters stick rookies and 1 or 2 year officials into varsity 6-man games. I would also suggest that, except for a few exceptions, most of 6-man is coached by less experienced coaches. Particularly when it comes to knowledge of the rules.
Maybe coaches should be required to take - and pass with at least an 80 - the same tests as officials are subject to every year.
As an official for the past 6 football seasons I could give a rip about sympathy. I also don't cotton to drama queen coaches, or parents, or even players thinking they are experts on the rules. From my experience - which is limited - the ones with actual knowledge of the rules aren't prone to childish tantrums.
I agree that most chapters stick rookies and 1 or 2 year officials into varsity 6-man games. I would also suggest that, except for a few exceptions, most of 6-man is coached by less experienced coaches. Particularly when it comes to knowledge of the rules.
Maybe coaches should be required to take - and pass with at least an 80 - the same tests as officials are subject to every year.
