Two Year Honeymoon: Is It Over

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My apologies in that, however the point is basically that your going to have poor times in events at the state track meet. 4th place would be above a 60, however let's also be honest and it's not like a 54 or above is a fast time in that event.
 
I think Cowboyp said it best. Keeping it simple (KISS) is the best policy. Anything else is going to be the exception. Yes, you can always point at the schools who rely on transfers to keep them competitive. Or you can look at the rare teams like Rochelle, Trent and Rule's 2007 and 2008 squads. Bonnie Richardson proved one girl can be competitive enough to win a state championship, alone. Trent's Albert Booker and Bo Simpson won more than a few meets beyond district. And the Bobcats won back-to-back UIL championships and made many in the sixman world very proud. But I believe they are the exceptions. Do we really want to argue that one or two man track teams are equal to those with 25 or 30?

Occasionally, a six man team comes along who can compete with the best eleven man players in competitions like 7-on-7, but its rare. Again, Cowboyp's statement is hard to lobby against. But all we can do is upgrade ourselves, and that will take much persuasion at home around the sixman community.

To answer the question do yall coaches really want a 60 second 400 to be a wildcard, the answer from me is a resounding hell yes! I am proud of the student-athlete who gets out there and runs a quarter any where near 60 seconds. That is what scholastic competition is all about...doing your best. I will always be inspired by that kid who runs 300s, 400s, 500s and whatever else the coach has planned that week, then lines up despite their own inner voice telling them not to, and competes to the bestof their ability against others on both sides of her, some faster and some slower. Its a beautiful effort and one that will benefit her in life. My God, defend that opportunity. I have been deeply inspired by those people who strive for much less.
And here is another angle to look at. That 60 or 66 runner probably gave everything she had, and that demands respect. The 2400 runner who comes in last a lap behind the field has my fondest respect, and I will not take that away from her. Watered down? As long as there is desire and effort to excel let us provide them the opportunity. Doesn't matter her time. Besides, the meets after district will filter out the slowest and weakest competitors. But in the end anyone who runs track is a winner in my book.
 
I understand that the kid may not compete in college, but how many of these kids competing at the state track meet also play baseball? A large majority. Hell, some of the kids that run on Friday night may have played in a game on Thursday night. When you say to me that a 54 is not fast, when comparing to 3A and above, no it is not. But in 1A or 2A, 54 is more than serviceable and gets the job done.

I am not arguing for or against. I see merit to both sides. Either have 1A or don't. Baseball, Softball and Volleyball get the shaft. Having schools with enrollment sub 70 competing with 230+. If a school elects to play up, more power to them. But to blatantly shafting school/students by setting them up on an uneven playing field shows what the UIL thinks of kids.
 
You wouldn't have had a 60 sec 400 at state in the wildcard! Where do you get that...the wildcard came from Region 2 with a 52 which is very respectable. Could have been even faster if our kid didn't get DQ but that's not the point. Now If your trying to say it would be slower if you take the 11man kids out, I would also disagree. A lot of times the big difference between the bigger and smaller schools is not the quality of the athletes but the amount of quality athletes. Most smaller schools load the relays with the studs with few left over to run the individual events. The larger schools can do both and therefore smaller schools have a harder time competing for team awards. Also a lot of coaches including myself look at the previous years times and put their kids where they think they can best compete. If you take the "11 man" schools out of the equation coaches would likely reshuffle kids making the competition just as good...just a thought.
 
In my opinion there is still only one solution to the problem. Let schools with true sixman numbers be 1A, period. Only one division, and the cutoff should be 75. Period.
 
CoachPhillips":14ybg179 said:
You wouldn't have had a 60 sec 400 at state in the wildcard! Where do you get that...the wildcard came from Region 2 with a 52 which is very respectable. Could have been even faster if our kid didn't get DQ but that's not the point. Now If your trying to say it would be slower if you take the 11man kids out, I would also disagree. A lot of times the big difference between the bigger and smaller schools is not the quality of the athletes but the amount of quality athletes. Most smaller schools load the relays with the studs with few left over to run the individual events. The larger schools can do both and therefore smaller schools have a harder time competing for team awards. Also a lot of coaches including myself look at the previous years times and put their kids where they think they can best compete. If you take the "11 man" schools out of the equation coaches would likely reshuffle kids making the competition just as good...just a thought.
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I didn't say that he would be the wildcard spot I said that he would be a possible candidate for the wildcard spot of the four. However I didn't know that Chester played 6 man football so that means that the 4th place kid could possibly run a 60 second. Also your saying that you load relays with your studs and not individual events. So your saying that now your relay times will be slowed down? Also if your trying to tell me that if you remove 11 man schools and the times won't suffer then your a fool!

There are roughly 215 schools who run 1A track and field and if those 215 or so schools around 150 are six man schools. So if you tell me that if you remove roughly 65 teams from 1a track and the times won't suffer then I'm hoping that you don't truly believe that.
 
techster2000":3eurloin said:
The problem with forcing six man schools who want to play 11man football to play all sports in 2a is the girls programs. You shouldn't punish all the other programs because one wants to "play up". Looking at most of the "11 man schools" records on the track last year, most couldn't compete at the 2a level. Munday hardly had anyone get to regional. Look at it now, the girls and boys both took over the regional meet in 1A. (The girls were an anomaly, had 3 freshmen come in and win most of their races). I'm all for making competition tougher. Otherwise lets go ahead and make a division 1 and division 2 in track also.
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If you have 3A numbers, and the football team opts to play in 4A, then guess what. ALL teams, boys and girls have to play 4A. (and yes, there are teams that do that) They don't allow picking and choosing at any other level. Why should it be any different for 1A? Because there are 2 different football formats? If a school don't want to "punish" their girls, then they would opt to quit punishing their boys by trying to compete in 11man football with 6man numbers. There are some exceptions, but generally, the schools that have 6man numbers and opt to play 11man, don't fare well. I say quit going back and forth over the fence!!! Either get on the 1A (sixman) side of it, or stay on the 2A side of it.
 
techster2000":9waggnsy said:
.........You shouldn't punish all the other programs because one wants to "play up"..........
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You aren't "punishing" the programs, you are just teaching egotistical Athletic Directors, Superintendents, School Boards and parents that rules are rules.............
 
What's egotistical about playing the same version of the sport you've always played. Especially if you're good at it. Going to six man ain't easy and it ain't for everybody. It's hard on coaches, the kids, and the town that is used to seeing 11 man games. Like I said, I think uil got it right for us. They do it wrong in the upper levels.
 
I would disagree with that. First of all, most of them are NOT good at it. And second, it is almost entirely an egotistical thing. They look at 6 man as a lesser sport, a consolation to "real" football. Out of 20 schools that play 11-man, that have 6-man numbers, only 7 made the playoffs, only 4 made it past the first round, and only 1 made it past the second round. Out of those 7 that made the playoffs, only 2 of those programs are consistent. I can understand them staying in 11-man. But the others, at 0-10, 1-9, 2-8, year after year, what is the point? Tradition? Surely not, one would hope that the tradition of winning would outweigh the tradition of being an 11man school. So if not tradition, what is it? Using some of the same words you used, LOSING is hard on coaches, the kids and the town that is used to seeing success. I think the ONLY thing that the UIL has gotten right so far is adding a 6A and making 6man size 1A by themselves. I think there is a lot of work left to be done as far as everything else goes.
 
I'm not talking winning or losing, I'm talking logistics. It's hard for a 11 man program to make the switch. To answer your other comment, who's to say those 0-10 teams are going to win at six man? Going to six man is not an automatic win for 11 man programs that have no athletes. Not all coaches think six man is a downgrade, just a lot of work. If an 11 man school has to "drop" to six man, you'll be looking for all new coaches, which upsets kids, which upsets parents. You're wanting to force 11 man schools to go six man if they have 6man numbers, but who's to say the kids want to go six man? It's not just coaches and parents that don't want to go six man, it's also sometimes the kids! Talking to coaches from Munday and Crosbyton coaches, they are grateful that their kids finally can compete with somebody their size in Bball and track. And that's what it's about right? The kids? Or are you just upset they are coming over with the same size school as ours and whooping our tails? How is being an 11 man football team giving them an advantage in track and Bball? I'd say 6 man better prepares you for both sports.
 
If you are in a school with 30 or so students, then it is a little difficult to compete with a school with 100. There are some coaches on here that can remember when it was a bunch of dwarves and a snow white or two in the district. I am grateful that Mr. Gilmore worked and got what we have. I stick with my statement if you play 11 man, then go all the way. Again, I am at least glad it is better than it was.
 
I'm betting if the Mondays and Cross Plains and and Burtons were terrible at track this wouldn't be an issue. On a side note, Follett, a D2 school, has dominated the girls regional track meet the last few years. It's not the quantity of runners, it's the quality. Otherwise lets just go ahead and divide 1a again into 2 divisions.
 
The real question is how many of those athletes stay at the schools choosing to play 11 if they move down to six-man? Since its "not" real football...
 
Completely agree tech. Those schools that play up do it for logistical reasons. Those are $ and time. It's completely different because every sport they play is exactly the same. Going from 11man to 6man is completely different. It's a whole different game, a great one, but different.

Devils advocate question. Your daughter is a stud trackster. 57 qtr and triple jumps in mid 30s. Your school has 95 kids but AD, school board, parents and kids want to stay 11man. By your rule now your daughter has to compete against schools with 200 kids. She makes second day in track but doesn't make the medal stand. How is that fair for your daughter? Isn't this about the kids?
 
Most of the kids will choose to have a chance at winning when they know they are in for several 70+ point drubbings in the crowded field. The school boards are the ones with the power to change and will not. There will be a few who will transfer rather than play sixman. I know of one family, who went to great lengths for their son to play sixman when the board voted to stay elevan man, knowing ahead of time they would be in for two more years of o-10.
 
A good point that needs to be made is one I heard today...some of those schools that made the 104 cutoff actually have more than the number turned in because of the different formulas available to calculate their ADA. But most of the small sixman school numbers are exactly what they turn in. For example, Follett turns in 54 and that number is accurate, but a Class 2A can manipulate their number down below 104 even though the real number is higher. Therefore, schools around 50 could be competing against schools with 135 or 140. That's like saying a class 2A with 200 kids would have to compete against schools with 21/2 or3 times more, 4 or 5 hundred kids.

And even tho Follett girls have won a couple of Regional championships recently, the boys surely have not. But during that two year Follett run the girl's finished second or lower twice to Whitedeer who had many more run-and-jumpers than our team. Two years ago we had seven girls in HS track, last year six and this year seven or eight. As I said earlier, that is the exception, not the norm.
 
txcoachttu":xx47m26b said:
Completely agree tech. Those schools that play up do it for logistical reasons. Those are $ and time. It's completely different because every sport they play is exactly the same. Going from 11man to 6man is completely different. It's a whole different game, a great one, but different.

Devils advocate question. Your daughter is a stud trackster. 57 qtr and triple jumps in mid 30s. Your school has 95 kids but AD, school board, parents and kids want to stay 11man. By your rule now your daughter has to compete against schools with 200 kids. She makes second day in track but doesn't make the medal stand. How is that fair for your daughter? Isn't this about the kids?
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A 57 quarter and a mid 30's triple jump goes to state in every region in 2A
 
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