What is the toughest team you have played all year?

[rainjacktx]

I don't understand what you are insinuating, sorry. Will you please explain, rainjack?

It wasn't my intent to insinuate anything one way or another. I listened to the first half of the Abbott - DC game played at Hico in week 0. From what I heard, Abbott pretty much tore DC up in the first half. The second half was much closer, with DC closing the gap and coming on strong at the end of the game.

Abbott won the game. No dispute. No excuses. Well, not unless anyone wants to blame the humidity - which I would never do. That is a lame excuse, I don't care who uses it.

Anyhow - My point was that, at halftime, Coach Helton did something to light a fire under his team. Since the fire-lighting, I think Dallas Convenant has been the best team in all of 6man.

Not to take anything away from Abbott. I fear they are better than I think they are.

 

[lonestarbulldog]

Might I point out that IF Abbott does "take it all" they will be the only team with two losses by Div 2 teams.
Jus' Sayn

Ryry, you say that like Div 2 is a lesser game than Div 1. Enrollment/Population has nothing to do with performance in 6 Man..

I will beg the differ here. Population means everything. You field a team of 8 that you HAVE to play with and try to play a time with 20 that you can choose from. Its very possible to get those 8 to be all good players in a small school and it is possible to get 20 bad players in a small school. It only takes one weak link on a sixman team to get beat and this is shown in every game. One good player will not win a state game without help from the rest of his team. Many of our speedy excitable players in sixman can do a lot but when you match up agains a team with 6 speedy guys then said team a speedy guy is not nearly as affective.
The past is the past but none competitive schools move to sixman because they dont have the choices in players to put in a team that is competitive with the other schools.
If you take some of these sixman teams that field more than 11 and put them on an 11 field they will not be nearly as good as they are in sixman. Population and Enrollment means almost everything unless you get a good bunch of boys. High school sixman football was not designed for teams that could field a jv or have 12 on the team. It was made for the schools that could not muster 11 bodies to put on the field and allowed these schools to play competitive football.

They have enrollment and populations for a reason. I do not agree with all of them but this is what the state likes. If they wanted to get the classification better they would need to break it to populations of boys and girls. Thats just a tad to much micro management. I think classifications would be better if it was projected eligible athletes for sports.
Sixman has speed up and grew in the last 20 years big time. It used to be if you got beat on the feild of play it was that and you move on to the next sport or the next year. So now select groups of teams fielding 11+ opt to play 6man to be competitive. Sadly the true meaning for sixman football has disappeared. Sixman was the offer to allow those that COULD NOT field 11 to play football and In my opinion was never ment for schools that wasn't competitive with those with more than 11 on a team.

Saying all that sixman has become faster and harder and still a great sport that i love more than most everything but the fact is it wasnt ment for teams of more than 11.

What I would think is fair to the TEAM is if each team could only field the same amount of players but at completely random draw. Not fair to the players but this is basically how a true small school playing with roosters smaller than 11 play. Just think about this. If you take the 2 top players for Throckmorton then pick the 2 middle players for Throckmorton then pick the 2 bottom players and suit that team up against Throckmorton's normal starting rooster how do you think the game would end. 45 by half and that is why we see the 45 rule used more often today.

Saying that I really enjoy watching Throckmorton play sixman football. I was just using them for an example, but Throckmorton more than most has benefited GREATLY by moving to sixman instead of just being a middle talented team in 11man. That was shown when they played Windthorst.

 

[jimmy14]

So lonestar are trying to say that Throck is good because of a higher enrollment? Current enrollment I believe I read on another thread is 58. 4-5 kids away from being D2.

 

[rainjacktx]

So lonestar are trying to say that Throck is good because of a higher enrollment? Current enrollment I believe I read on another thread is 58. 4-5 kids away from being D2.

Numbers play a role. Anyone who willfully ignores that is a fool. But with that said - tradition and attitude, along with good coaching, play an equal role in the success of any program versus sheer numbers.

For example: If you are at a school like RS, Throck., BC, Gordon, Strawn, or Valley (there are others, but I'm Ambien posting) - you are indoctrinated at an early age that you WILL carry on the tradition. That has a profound effect on your attitude.

Coaching + Attitude + Tradition = Wins.

At the same time, there is a lot of empirical evidence that shows numbers certainly don't hurt.

 

[lonestarbulldog]

So lonestar are trying to say that Throck is good because of a higher enrollment? Current enrollment I believe I read on another thread is 58. 4-5 kids away from being D2.

No i am stating if you field a lot of players you have lots of options. Sixman was not originally designed for option, but it has evolved into it. I think Throckmorton has very talented coaching and tradition and that is a huge factor in why Throckmorton has done well. There is also a heavy influence in competition that motivated a great start in woodson. Division one or division two fielding constant numbers of 11 is not what the orginal intent was. Throckmorton had these number or close while still playing in 11 man, just harder to complete and that was what I use to show numbers is a big thing in any sports field. I in no way will take what Throckmorton has earned from them. Small towns like Throckmorton are getting smaller and smaller and It will even out. There are a LOT of 1a 11man schools from 20 years ago playing sixman and the ones that have come to six man wasnt having to cancel games because they couldnt field 11 but they took the step to six man to be competitive. Throckmorton could have been competitive in 11man with some of the athletes they have had the last 8 year or so of playing 6man but I do not think they would be state champions. Much to Throckmortons defense bascically everyone they played has come to six man. I just using Throck as an example because of how well they are doing and when you go watch them play they have plenty of extra players on the sideline. Many teams fall into this field.

Also so its said Throckmorton was never a push over easy win in 11man by anymeans. Throckmorton has always been a competitive football town be it in 11man or 6man. They had bad years but people they played had much respect for them.

In six man you run into the true small towns running out of bodies to play. It take six. In 11 man if you only field 11 you have the option to play sixman but thats rarely the case. How many 11man towns that are now playing 6man had to cancel more than 4 games of a season for not being able to field a team of 11? How man came to six man without ever canceling a game due to lack of numbers? These schools couldnt constantly compete with the bigger schools of 1a 11man so they elected to play 6man basically reversing the roles of numbers in there favor to their benefit.
This agruement goes thru all classifications in texas football. You always have wylie in 3a and always coming in a man or 2 under the cap for 4a. Its just way more apparent in sixman that numbers booster your chances a lot. If you cant see numbers make up a lot in football then you need to get out more. Numbers are more important in 6 man than any other division. There is a huge difference in playing with what you have and playing with who you choose.

 

[hiscounsel]

Thank you rainjack for explaining.

 

[Shad Kline]

The thing is, sometimes those numbers are a direct result of winning as opposed to winning because you have the numbers. Throck has 30 kids because they win, Strawn has 30 kids and field a JV in div 2 because they win. And then in turn, the JV gets to play as opposed to watching the varsity get all of the playing time, so they get better. When I played way back when, the cutoff was 79, and we (Gordon) fielded a team of 22. Savoy had 13 last year in 11 man and went 0-10, this year, they moved to 6 man and 23 showed up, they went 10-0. But from what I saw, their normal players we're about 12 of them, average freshman got to play when the scoreboard got lopsided. Do numbers help? Sure they do, but winning is what gets you those numbers. If anyone who fielded more than 11 had to play 11 man, you would have less than 15 teams.

 

[longhornfan1970]

Well said Hornkeeper !!! Most kids dont come out for football because they think they will never get to see any playing time. I salute the coaches that play their 2nd stringers whenever possible. It will only give these kids more experience and confidence when they are the upperclassmen.

 

[lonestarbulldog]

Well said Hornkeeper !!! Most kids dont come out for football because they think they will never get to see any playing time. I salute the coaches that play their 2nd stringers whenever possible. It will only give these kids more experience and confidence when they are the upperclassmen.

I completely agree with you here. There is no reason to 45 people in the first half. Its not sportsman like and you rob your underclassmen from experience. But today its about ending the game. I would say 20 years ago there could have been as many 45 as today but the feel was to let the teams play and if that meant when you was up by 30 let someone who would never touch the ball carry it the rest of the night. We have moved from that like we have moved from numbers is all i am stating.

Yes longhorn keeper winning brings numbers, I complete agree with that. I am just saying 6man was created to give small schools that couldnt field 11 the opportunity to play the sport. As you use Savoy as a talking point instead of trying to compete in 11 man the easier step was to move to 6man to improve the odds of only need 6 decent students instead of 11. But if Savoy only fielded 8 random do you think they would have the same record this year or would it be more like the record of last year? Yes Gordon and strawn have years they have 20 players but normally within 6 years they are playing with more rational numbers. We all know its not financially feasible to play both games and you cant change every year because the costs are to great, but many teams elect to play 6man to be competitive in the sport of football. The point is no one likes to lose so they change to sixman, yet sixman was created for those that was not able to play at all. Also proof of winning brings numbers is Richland Springs. They didnt have near the numbers they put up before the 98 season when things started the turn around. I am not meaning to lure in the deals that people just move to a town or transfer to a town to be a star in 6man because i dont believe all that hype but just agreeing with a winning tradtion draws more people, but in the case of many new sixman teams it was to get the competitive edge instead of having to cancel games because they couldnt fill there roosters.

The game has changed to this and the more 11man teams that come down with level out the playing field and you will aways have traditional sixman schools that will be able to compete while there numbers are up. Sadly on the off years when gordon and strawn and richland springs have number problems it will show in there win lose column.

I almost alway watch d1 games now because they tend to be better games during the regular season. In playoffs i try to watch both because the field is more even. I love the game, it just has taken a new direction.

 

[RedBird Man]

Horn Keeper is right about winning causing boys to come out. I'm from Savoy and have watched us struggle for the last 20 years with numbers in 11 man. We went to 23 this year and already have some additional boys that should have played, but didn't. Now they want to be part of the program.

We were approached and voted down going to Sixman back in the late 90's. As a board member then, it was one of the worst mistakes I made. We tried to play outside of UIL and that didn't work either. Three of our coaches are from the last 11 man teams and were key in getting us to move to Sixman and I will be eternally grateful.

I know that alot of rural schools are losing attendance due to the economy. I don't see Savoy growing for a long while to come. Two other things really affected us, one was the concussion rules. We had to forfeit a game last year in 11 man because of not enough players. For years we also had issue with losing a kidsto grades. This year while winning, we didn't lose a player, they didn't want to miss anything.

Now back to the original thread, GORDON. They taught alot of things to our coaches and boys about what direction we want to go in.

 

[smokeyjoe53]

Well said Hornkeeper !!! Most kids dont come out for football because they think they will never get to see any playing time. I salute the coaches that play their 2nd stringers whenever possible. It will only give these kids more experience and confidence when they are the upperclassmen.

I completely agree with you here. There is no reason to 45 people in the first half. Its not sportsman like and you rob your underclassmen from experience. But today its about ending the game. I would say 20 years ago there could have been as many 45 as today but the feel was to let the teams play and if that meant when you was up by 30 let someone who would never touch the ball carry it the rest of the night. We have moved from that like we have moved from numbers is all i am stating.

Yes longhorn keeper winning brings numbers, I complete agree with that. I am just saying 6man was created to give small schools that couldnt field 11 the opportunity to play the sport. As you use Savoy as a talking point instead of trying to compete in 11 man the easier step was to move to 6man to improve the odds of only need 6 decent students instead of 11. But if Savoy only fielded 8 random do you think they would have the same record this year or would it be more like the record of last year? Yes Gordon and strawn have years they have 20 players but normally within 6 years they are playing with more rational numbers. We all know its not financially feasible to play both games and you cant change every year because the costs are to great, but many teams elect to play 6man to be competitive in the sport of football. The point is no one likes to lose so they change to sixman, yet sixman was created for those that was not able to play at all. Also proof of winning brings numbers is Richland Springs. They didnt have near the numbers they put up before the 98 season when things started the turn around. I am not meaning to lure in the deals that people just move to a town or transfer to a town to be a star in 6man because i dont believe all that hype but just agreeing with a winning tradtion draws more people, but in the case of many new sixman teams it was to get the competitive edge instead of having to cancel games because they couldnt fill there roosters.

The game has changed to this and the more 11man teams that come down with level out the playing field and you will aways have traditional sixman schools that will be able to compete while there numbers are up. Sadly on the off years when gordon and strawn and richland springs have number problems it will show in there win lose column.

I almost alway watch d1 games now because they tend to be better games during the regular season. In playoffs i try to watch both because the field is more even. I love the game, it just has taken a new direction.

Just wondering....what would you consider a "safe lead"? When should you put in the 2nd string?
I agree that young players need to be developed but, unfortunately, it seems like the point of games today is to win by as much as possible. Everybody focuses on rankings and rankings are influenced by, you guessed it, point differential.
You want more playing time for the younger kids? Eliminate the 45 point rule.........................

 

[pecospete]

Well said Hornkeeper !!! Most kids dont come out for football because they think they will never get to see any playing time. I salute the coaches that play their 2nd stringers whenever possible. It will only give these kids more experience and confidence when they are the upperclassmen.

I completely agree with you here. There is no reason to 45 people in the first half. Its not sportsman like and you rob your underclassmen from experience. But today its about ending the game. I would say 20 years ago there could have been as many 45 as today but the feel was to let the teams play and if that meant when you was up by 30 let someone who would never touch the ball carry it the rest of the night. We have moved from that like we have moved from numbers is all i am stating.

Yes longhorn keeper winning brings numbers, I complete agree with that. I am just saying 6man was created to give small schools that couldnt field 11 the opportunity to play the sport. As you use Savoy as a talking point instead of trying to compete in 11 man the easier step was to move to 6man to improve the odds of only need 6 decent students instead of 11. But if Savoy only fielded 8 random do you think they would have the same record this year or would it be more like the record of last year? Yes Gordon and strawn have years they have 20 players but normally within 6 years they are playing with more rational numbers. We all know its not financially feasible to play both games and you cant change every year because the costs are to great, but many teams elect to play 6man to be competitive in the sport of football. The point is no one likes to lose so they change to sixman, yet sixman was created for those that was not able to play at all. Also proof of winning brings numbers is Richland Springs. They didnt have near the numbers they put up before the 98 season when things started the turn around. I am not meaning to lure in the deals that people just move to a town or transfer to a town to be a star in 6man because i dont believe all that hype but just agreeing with a winning tradtion draws more people, but in the case of many new sixman teams it was to get the competitive edge instead of having to cancel games because they couldnt fill there roosters.

The game has changed to this and the more 11man teams that come down with level out the playing field and you will aways have traditional sixman schools that will be able to compete while there numbers are up. Sadly on the off years when gordon and strawn and richland springs have number problems it will show in there win lose column.

I almost alway watch d1 games now because they tend to be better games during the regular season. In playoffs i try to watch both because the field is more even. I love the game, it just has taken a new direction.

I agree also, but I know of a team that has only played one full game this year and most ended at thalf time. Every player has plaed in every game except for the play off game that was decided by 4 points and 10 of the 12 players played in that game. Every player on the team has scored atlest once and the one young man that can only make a 100 pound if they drench him with the water can scored twice in one game. what do you do in that case allow the other team to score so you can play longer.

 

[twodollarbill]

Might I point out that IF Abbott does "take it all" they will be the only team with two losses by Div 2 teams.
Jus' Sayn

Ryry, you say that like Div 2 is a lesser game than Div 1. Enrollment/Population has nothing to do with performance in 6 Man..

I will beg the differ here. Population means everything. You field a team of 8 that you HAVE to play with and try to play a time with 20 that you can choose from. Its very possible to get those 8 to be all good players in a small school and it is possible to get 20 bad players in a small school. It only takes one weak link on a sixman team to get beat and this is shown in every game. One good player will not win a state game without help from the rest of his team. Many of our speedy excitable players in sixman can do a lot but when you match up agains a team with 6 speedy guys then said team a speedy guy is not nearly as affective.
The past is the past but none competitive schools move to sixman because they dont have the choices in players to put in a team that is competitive with the other schools.
If you take some of these sixman teams that field more than 11 and put them on an 11 field they will not be nearly as good as they are in sixman. Population and Enrollment means almost everything unless you get a good bunch of boys. High school sixman football was not designed for teams that could field a jv or have 12 on the team. It was made for the schools that could not muster 11 bodies to put on the field and allowed these schools to play competitive football.

They have enrollment and populations for a reason. I do not agree with all of them but this is what the state likes. If they wanted to get the classification better they would need to break it to populations of boys and girls. Thats just a tad to much micro management. I think classifications would be better if it was projected eligible athletes for sports.
Sixman has speed up and grew in the last 20 years big time. It used to be if you got beat on the feild of play it was that and you move on to the next sport or the next year. So now select groups of teams fielding 11+ opt to play 6man to be competitive. Sadly the true meaning for sixman football has disappeared. Sixman was the offer to allow those that COULD NOT field 11 to play football and In my opinion was never ment for schools that wasn't competitive with those with more than 11 on a team.

Saying all that sixman has become faster and harder and still a great sport that i love more than most everything but the fact is it wasnt ment for teams of more than 11.

What I would think is fair to the TEAM is if each team could only field the same amount of players but at completely random draw. Not fair to the players but this is basically how a true small school playing with roosters smaller than 11 play. Just think about this. If you take the 2 top players for Throckmorton then pick the 2 middle players for Throckmorton then pick the 2 bottom players and suit that team up against Throckmorton's normal starting rooster how do you think the game would end. 45 by half and that is why we see the 45 rule used more often today.

Saying that I really enjoy watching Throckmorton play sixman football. I was just using them for an example, but Throckmorton more than most has benefited GREATLY by moving to sixman instead of just being a middle talented team in 11man. That was shown when they played Windthorst.

I agree that numbers certainly give you and advantage. My response to ryry was that DII is no less of a game because of the DI/DII split.
Anyone who thinks otherwise should have been at the Strawn/Gordon game this year (or any year for that matter).

 

[smokeyjoe53]

I believe Throcks enrollment is 78......

 

[longhornfan1970]

Throcks enrollment is 58 i believe

 

[KDUB-31]

OK probably gonna ruffle some feathers here of the female type....Gotta a question, how many females play high school football...i know they are allowed to do so by the UIL but how many actually do? if none then the divisional split should be based on MALE enrollment only. Let's just say you have a school who's total enrollment is 49 and they are classified as DII, but their enrollment reflects 40 males and 9 females. on the other hand you have a school who's enrollment is 57 and are classified as DI, but their enrollment reflects 20 males and 37 females. in this scenario all males play football, so that throws that argument out the window. So should the school with the smaller number of males actually be a DII school and the school with the higher number of males be a DI? Just a thought. As far as the original question asked on this thread i say Richland Springs was the toughest team faced this year.

 

[older than dirt]

When we went outlaw we had a class that had 22 girls and 5 boys in it now is that fair?

 

[smokeyjoe53]

So are you going to stop girls athletics? Just askin'

 

[older than dirt]

NO, but how do'es that apply to football? Also bye Christmas of that year 'we had several kids move away and we were under the 99.9 count! But we still had to go outlaw! Also we couldn't finish the season because we couldn't field a team because of injuries! Sorry I'm still bitter about the whole thing!

 

[rainjacktx]

When we went outlaw we had a class that had 22 girls and 5 boys in it now is that fair?

Be thankful you had a class with 27 kids.