UIL Proposal 1A 11 man football

Leman Saunders":1azhr90g said:
Coach Shelton I know your pro 8man coming from Colorado but that ship sailed in Texas almost 40 years ago and it aint going to be docking here again.
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Leman, I know you feel the need to be right about every thing you post on - but again, all I said is that I believe that the 8-man game would be feasible (& makes sense) the way demographics have shifted in Texas the past 10 years or so. It was a statement of opinion - not one time have I said that Texas should "bring back 8-man". What you don't know is that when I came to Texas, I was the biggest opponent of 8-man (I even bashed it w/OBK in the early years I was on this board). I found it boring to be honest - never played it, never coached it. That being said - with the creativity & quality of coaching I think it would be fun to watch in this state.

You're right - if a school is low on numbers they can play 6-man or suck it up and take their 11-man beating.
 
Coach Shelton,
Speaking for myself, I dont think there is a need for conversation on this point. Everyone coaching now will likely be retired before the next change to divisional breakdown or adding 8 man. When we start having 2 divisions in each of 8A... maybe 8 man can be 2A?? :)
 
Leman, I know you feel the need to be right about everything you post on - but again
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Not true...I like being wrong because that means I have learned something.

There is an option here no one has brought up....those schools we are talking about can form their own Outlaw 11man league, elect not to play in a UIL district and then have their own playoffs. They would have no trouble filling a schedule of 10 regular season games. Schools play outlaw 6man every year or are "independent" from the UIL. Honestly I think that is a pretty good idea. Schools use to do this often in the past (1930s-50s).
 
In the dozen or so years I've followed this game, public and private, I've heard lots of communities say "oh no, we'll always play 11 man, we won't play 6 man.." I understand the angst that happens in small communities ... businesses are closing, people are moving away, and that 11 man team at the school is one of the last "we're still here" things to fall.

But when the choice is 6-man football or no football, the six-man option sounds so, so much more appealing.
 
Leman Saunders":2q4nj2lf said:
I have a question for coach Ramsey -

If the cut off number to play 6man was 115.9 would your school elect to play it? If no my follow up would be to ask why not?

I personally think the cut off number should be 115.9 or 119.9 as it would give more schools a solid choice...like Fort Hancock who would be playing UIL 6man if they could.

Sorry if Im coming off as crass...AC went out and hit a deer in my truck last night
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First of all we turned in 112 and could drop below the "number". With that being said, it is NOT MY DECISION whether we go 6 man or stay 11 man, that decision is and should ALWAYS be made by the community. I keep hearing (Leman S.) how stubborn the admin is about staying in 11 man when (in your opinion) should go 6 man. Again, that is the communities decision, NOT the admin. (by the way, my supt worked in the admin in Throckmorton when they dropped from 11 man to 6 man). Our community wants to stay 11 man, our supt is a part of this community and supports staying 11 man.

My dad grew up playing 6 man football, it holds a special place in my heart. I really enjoy it! I have for most of my coaching career coached at small 11 man schools and have played several 6 man games with our JV teams. Again, its the communities decision, not mine or the admin.

As for the 15-20 or so schools that you say would play 1a 11man, it is bigger than you think.
 
of the 19 schools that could play 6man that dont I can list you about half that wont because the either the school board, or a driving factor behind them (town/community or major players in the town), wont play 6man bc it isnt real football in their words not mine...


again Ive been calling and talking to AD, Supers, and HC on this issue for over 10 years now. If you arent hearing that from schools, you arent asking the right questions and they arent being honest with you.


After talking to one of the main proponents of this 11A 1A, I think the only viable option is doing it like they do 2A baseball, which is what I believe they are proposing. Which would be the best way.

Final word on 8man...for that proposed class, their enrollment numbers would almost certainly bleed over into what is now 6man, and the 6man coaches association I feel strongly would not vote to allow it to happen. Example if you had the 8man class enrollment numbers 80-120...there would be a large % of already playing 6man schools in there that would choose 6man, AND it is still "not 11man" and thus "not real football" to other schools board members who ultimately would decide for those schools.

In 1974 here is what UIL director Bailey Marshall said "The reason we are considering abolishing one of the divisions (6man or 8man) is that there are so few teams (25 in 8man, 60 in 6man) that it is really hard to justify state championships in those classes."
Sept 29, 1974 Lubbock AJ - a very nice article on the matter
The same issues would be present now.
 
In 1974 here is what UIL director Bailey Marshall said "The reason we are considering abolishing one of the divisions (6man or 8man) is that there are so few teams (25 in 8man, 60 in 6man) that it is really hard to justify state championships in those classes."
Sept 29, 1974 Lubbock AJ - a very nice article on the matter
The same issues would be present now.



UIL today is nothing like the UIL of 1974
 
I don’t think anyone is saying that one is better than the other it’s a like you said “community preference”. The communities that have been playing and those that dropped have adjusted to the “DIFFERENT” style of FOOTBALL played. It takes unique individuals to play at both levels, coaching philosophies (give your athletes best chance to be competitive and win) great community support and understanding administrative support and commitment. Without those as a TEAM there won’t be success at any level. It’s an understanding amongst all involved about the opportunity to be successful that’s important. It’s true that 6 man 8 man and 11 man are all different but they all still play FOOTBALL. Each requires the same skill sets physically mentally and emotionally. But the difference is in being placed so the TEAM mentioned above has the opportunity for success. How many 1A 11 man schools play others that a field a team with twice the players? I fully understand that a mindset of 11 man is the only real football, gives opportunities for scholarships and recognition but you look around the state there are 6 man players on college teams and just how many 1A 11 man go scholarship anyway?
I’ve coached on both levels and it’s the mindset of athletes administrators and community that equate success. I guess that to “DROP” to what is perceived to be a lower level is not in the best interest of the kids!
Whether it’s 6-8-11 is still football last I looked
 
Superjrj":19a6k18m said:
Just ask Throckmorton
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Ask Crowell as well. I thought the town was going to be burned down when they started talking about switching to sixman. A few state championships later got them all onboard and they will do all they can to never switch back to 11 man.
 
Ask Morton’s AD, Superintendent, school board and community.There was a lot of angst and teeth grinding and bashing the 6 man game when they moved down mid year last season. The UIL allowed the move and they were eventually ranked on six man.com as an Independent. They finished the
season ranked number 2 and became the first Independent Six Man Football State Champion as a result of their Bowl victory over number one Tyler Heat.
Negative Neds and Nellies were not to be found when they returned to a Hero’s Welcome Home on the Sunday night of their return.
Two major hurdles for an 8 man classification.
Finances and logistics are the biggest challenges for
many, many programs today. These challenges are why some
programs are Independent and are free to choose who,
when and where to play. Independents play UIL, TAPPS, TCAL,
TAIAO and any other programs that adhere to UIL RULES AND REGULATIONS.
Contact me if you want more information. The Texas Independent Six Man
Bowl Series will be played in Gholson, Texas on November 10, 2018.
 
Thank you, haven’t seen anywhere else about this proposal on any media and wanted to be sure before I commented on it.

As for my opinion, I don’t think this proposal will fly and the 11-man schools need to ether continue as is or make the switch to 6-man and be done with it.

Also a reminder, it’s not the parents, booster club, school board, or the superintendent that will be playing but the young men in the school who will be suiting up, the same young men who will suffer the consequences if the adults chose poorly.
Just my opinion.
 
coach_jshelton":25423k95 said:
From what I've seen over the past 10 years, bringing the 8-man game back to Texas makes more sense now more than ever. 6-man wasn't created with the intent of having 25+ players on a team.

1) Move the 6-man cut-off to 75
2) Make the 8-man cut-off 76-125

You'd still have some stubborn schools play 11-man, and that's their prerogative - with all classifications being divided into 2 divisions, 8-man would be less appealing to successful small 11-man schools. The 11-man game translates pretty well to the 8-man game, so it would help "bridge the gap" for schools with declining enrollments (and fiscally it's a more viable alternative because converting the field is much easier).

The argument I've heard against this is that it would put 6-man coaches out of a job - we've seen so much crossover with 11-man coaches coming into 6-man & vice-versa over the past 10 years and it hasn't been a big deal. I know one 6-man HOFer who has told me on several occasions that he'd like the opportunity to coach 8-man.

Now that 8-man has been brought up, just wait for OBK to appear...
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Here I am!!!!!! :) I was off on a business trip this week.....

Back when 8 man was still going, there were a LOT of small schools playing 11 man who could have switched and had more success, but only Follett, Sands, Estelline, Lakeview, and Whitharral made the switch. Sands only went to 8 man for 4 years from 1964-1967, with good results, then went back to 11 man with lousy results for the next 16 years or so.

The rest continued to struggle in 11 man until lack of numbers forced them to either go 6 man or drop football. I think the only reason Trent and Hermleigh went to 6 man after 1969 was that is was obvious that 8 man was on the way out by then.

Even if the UIL does offer the possibility of 8 man, I don't think more than 15-20 schools will go that way, and they will be scattered all over the state forcing very long drives to play games. I just don't see it happening. As much as I like the 8 man game, it looks like a dead end to me.
 
Leman Saunders":3oear898 said:
of the 19 schools that could play 6man that dont I can list you about half that wont because the either the school board, or a driving factor behind them (town/community or major players in the town), wont play 6man bc it isnt real football in their words not mine...


again Ive been calling and talking to AD, Supers, and HC on this issue for over 10 years now. If you arent hearing that from schools, you arent asking the right questions and they arent being honest with you.


After talking to one of the main proponents of this 11A 1A, I think the only viable option is doing it like they do 2A baseball, which is what I believe they are proposing. Which would be the best way.

Final word on 8man...for that proposed class, their enrollment numbers would almost certainly bleed over into what is now 6man, and the 6man coaches association I feel strongly would not vote to allow it to happen. Example if you had the 8man class enrollment numbers 80-120...there would be a large % of already playing 6man schools in there that would choose 6man, AND it is still "not 11man" and thus "not real football" to other schools board members who ultimately would decide for those schools.

In 1974 here is what UIL director Bailey Marshall said "The reason we are considering abolishing one of the divisions (6man or 8man) is that there are so few teams (25 in 8man, 60 in 6man) that it is really hard to justify state championships in those classes."
Sept 29, 1974 Lubbock AJ - a very nice article on the matter
The same issues would be present now.
Click to expand...

And 11 of those 25 schools in 1974 were in the same district in 1973. When Sterling City left for 11 man in 1974, it was split into 2 zones. Goree, Nueces Canyon, and Medina all left that year too, but Grady came in to 8 man, so that left 22 8 man schools to finish out the next 2 years.
 
Even if 8-man were made available, I cannot imagine it being mandated for schools over a certain number of kids in enrollment, because far too many D1 schools have turf fields now, that you could not just require to reconfigure their fields.
 
8 man is a good solution for schools wanting to have more of an 11 man type of game. I coached 8 man for 8 years and ran alot of my 11 man offense, it just happens a little faster. 8 man plays on 6 man width, but can be played on 6 or 11 man length. It is very similar to 11 man except that the end man is eligible no matter the position(EX center could be eligible). Take off two tackles and a flanker and it is 8 man.
 

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