The Winner of TAPPS Division II State Game
- Thread starter Rusher22
- Start date
kharris
11-man fan
Congratulations Coach Shipman on yet another State Title. I was unable to make the game, first in five years of either watching or coaching in, because my son's basketball team decided to play out of their mind and go to the championship round of the Pantego tournament. I was quite disappointed not to be able to attend, however, enjoyed my son's game immensly.
Not being there and both you and Coach O'Conner being friends of mine, I will not comment on either team's play or what I thought would happen. A sumation on the site would be enlightening. Congratulations to Coach O'Conner on an outstanding season. I know from personal experience the loss stings, however, you've got to be extremely proud of your boys and the great season they had.
I look forward to seeing you both Wednesday at the State meeting. Congratulations again to both of you and may God continue to bless both you, your families, and your programs.
Coach Harris
Fellowship Mustangs
Not being there and both you and Coach O'Conner being friends of mine, I will not comment on either team's play or what I thought would happen. A sumation on the site would be enlightening. Congratulations to Coach O'Conner on an outstanding season. I know from personal experience the loss stings, however, you've got to be extremely proud of your boys and the great season they had.
I look forward to seeing you both Wednesday at the State meeting. Congratulations again to both of you and may God continue to bless both you, your families, and your programs.
Coach Harris
Fellowship Mustangs
Let me say up front that I am a Heritage football fan, player parent, and huge fan of Coach Shipman. It is difficult to read week to week posts about Division II football and not feel that the Heritage Program receives little to no respect. Many believed that the bracketing should have been different as to facilitate a Heritage - Brenham game as the championship game. The Brenham game was a real test for the Heritage squad. All in all an excellent game was played by both squads.
What I do not understand is with many people believing that the Brenham game would be more difficult for Heritage why so many people expected Heritage to take it on the chin in this game. People who believed that the Brenham game would be a stiffer test for Heritage than the next game (no matter who the opponent) then apparently believed and were willing to put in writing that Duncanville was to be favored in this game make little sense.
I have been to all of the state championship games in which Heritage has participated and have seen a common thread. There is a lack of reason and reality when it comes to the ability of Heritage teams. During a trip to the coincession stand at last years concession game an opposing teams fan said that Heritage had no chance in the second half. I told him that position had little basis in fact. Reality reared its ugly head in the second half and Heritage squeaked out a win against what I would say was a marginally better squad. If all things are equal something intangible will make the difference. In last years game those intangibles were heart and a willingness to stick to game plan.
In this years game I fully expected a 45 game. Not due to a lack of talent on the part of the opposing team. They were very talented. I read the post in reference to the high ankle sprain and I saw the injury to the tight end. I am sure that the injury to the tight end may have compromised part of the Chapparels game plan. I am also sure however that the Duncanvill game plan (with justification) was centered on the speed of Kody's speed. I must say that he was incredibly fast. He has great ability to improvise as was shown on the broken play completion. However due to gameplan Heritage was able to keep him in check. It is the teams job to execute the coach's gameplan however the coach needs to have personnel with sufficient athletic ability to carry out that gameplan. Heritage has a great amount of athletic talent and the bulk of their starters are juniors. It is safe to say that you can expect a quality team out of Heritage again next year.
My point in all this rambling is this...look at the numbers objectively, compare teams and schedules rationally, evaluate the coaches on their previous records and personal qualities. Bias toward a team just because of an emotionally based preference is in many ways absurd. (by the way I know that the term fan is short for fanatic implying that there doesn't have to be good reason for ones preference). I know that Coach Shipman doesn't allow his team to take any game for granted. He sets them up to perform optimally against each opponent and his record speaks for itself. He also recognizes that he has made mistakes in games past and when he does he learns from them and typically doesn't repeat them. Excellent coaching (tough but respectful), quality athletic talent, exceptional work ethic (coaches and players) and a commitent by the players to the coaching philosophy will frequently lead to desired results as is evidenced by past performance.
When all things are judged objectively as much as possible it will frequently lead to the correct conclusion...not an emotionally based sometimes flippant opinion in which a deserving team receives less respect than they deserve. I believe that Coach Shipman would greatly prefer that the Heritage program fly under the radar and be underestimated by opposing teams but that also is virtually inpossible. I don't think that Heritage should be placed on any sort of pedestal however rational thinking would lead one to believe that they should have been seen to be the best team in Division II TAPPS. This is not a Homer's opinion but an opinion that could be reasoned to a great extent from looking at the evidence. I understand that the phrase "Any given Sunday" could easily ally to Fridays and Saturdays as well but if planning is solid flukes should happen rarely and the better team should win. I know that it is a small matter and this post will probably receive more flak than generate converts but I thank that it is time that people post based more on fact and less on feeling. This will lead to teams receiving proper respect no matter who they are.
My congratulations to Duncanville on an excellent season and to Heritage on their Championship.
God Bless all
Jonel
What I do not understand is with many people believing that the Brenham game would be more difficult for Heritage why so many people expected Heritage to take it on the chin in this game. People who believed that the Brenham game would be a stiffer test for Heritage than the next game (no matter who the opponent) then apparently believed and were willing to put in writing that Duncanville was to be favored in this game make little sense.
I have been to all of the state championship games in which Heritage has participated and have seen a common thread. There is a lack of reason and reality when it comes to the ability of Heritage teams. During a trip to the coincession stand at last years concession game an opposing teams fan said that Heritage had no chance in the second half. I told him that position had little basis in fact. Reality reared its ugly head in the second half and Heritage squeaked out a win against what I would say was a marginally better squad. If all things are equal something intangible will make the difference. In last years game those intangibles were heart and a willingness to stick to game plan.
In this years game I fully expected a 45 game. Not due to a lack of talent on the part of the opposing team. They were very talented. I read the post in reference to the high ankle sprain and I saw the injury to the tight end. I am sure that the injury to the tight end may have compromised part of the Chapparels game plan. I am also sure however that the Duncanvill game plan (with justification) was centered on the speed of Kody's speed. I must say that he was incredibly fast. He has great ability to improvise as was shown on the broken play completion. However due to gameplan Heritage was able to keep him in check. It is the teams job to execute the coach's gameplan however the coach needs to have personnel with sufficient athletic ability to carry out that gameplan. Heritage has a great amount of athletic talent and the bulk of their starters are juniors. It is safe to say that you can expect a quality team out of Heritage again next year.
My point in all this rambling is this...look at the numbers objectively, compare teams and schedules rationally, evaluate the coaches on their previous records and personal qualities. Bias toward a team just because of an emotionally based preference is in many ways absurd. (by the way I know that the term fan is short for fanatic implying that there doesn't have to be good reason for ones preference). I know that Coach Shipman doesn't allow his team to take any game for granted. He sets them up to perform optimally against each opponent and his record speaks for itself. He also recognizes that he has made mistakes in games past and when he does he learns from them and typically doesn't repeat them. Excellent coaching (tough but respectful), quality athletic talent, exceptional work ethic (coaches and players) and a commitent by the players to the coaching philosophy will frequently lead to desired results as is evidenced by past performance.
When all things are judged objectively as much as possible it will frequently lead to the correct conclusion...not an emotionally based sometimes flippant opinion in which a deserving team receives less respect than they deserve. I believe that Coach Shipman would greatly prefer that the Heritage program fly under the radar and be underestimated by opposing teams but that also is virtually inpossible. I don't think that Heritage should be placed on any sort of pedestal however rational thinking would lead one to believe that they should have been seen to be the best team in Division II TAPPS. This is not a Homer's opinion but an opinion that could be reasoned to a great extent from looking at the evidence. I understand that the phrase "Any given Sunday" could easily ally to Fridays and Saturdays as well but if planning is solid flukes should happen rarely and the better team should win. I know that it is a small matter and this post will probably receive more flak than generate converts but I thank that it is time that people post based more on fact and less on feeling. This will lead to teams receiving proper respect no matter who they are.
My congratulations to Duncanville on an excellent season and to Heritage on their Championship.
God Bless all
Jonel
-sixman02-
11-man fan
I don't quite understand those Fredericksburg fans who claim that Heritage gets no respect. They have gotten nothing but respect for at the very least the past four years as they have won 3 of the last four state titles, and many in quite dominant fashion. Tim Shipman has an incredible program down there, not to mention a great crop of athletes. If you are referring to the recent polls and such that chose Duncanville over them, I would suggest that people just really want to see somebody else win once in a while. I don't think anyone questions their ability, but rather just pull for somebody else to beat them. Division two is almost getting boring as the boys down at Freddy have their way with just about anyone they play.
freeagent
Six-man pro
By the way, it's four of the last five. My guess is the only way for anyone else to take that crown will be to wait for Heritage to move up to D1 ... which could happen in 2010.
I thought that perhaps Heritage had the tougher game in Brenham, but expected Christway to take it to 40 minutes. But in this game, and against Heritage, you can find yourself way down way early and wonder how you got there. Wasn't there (in Moody), but I wouldn't be suprised if that's what happened.
Congrats to all my friends in Fredericksburg, starting with Coach Shipman and the Eagles. Another well-deserved crown. Only Granbury Happy Hill (the first D2 title in 2003; they are now D1) and Fort Worth Glenview Christian (in 2006; they are now in TCAF) have won the other TAPPS D2 titles. Maybe we'll start calling it the Shipman Trophy, like the NFL calls the Super Bowl prize the Lombardi Trophy.
Congrats as well to Christway. You don't make it that far on just luck.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high ... title.html
Web Posted: 12/06/2008 11:56 CST
Heritage claims six-man state title
San Antonio Express-News
- MOODY — Fredericksburg Heritage coach Tim Shipman had a suspicion that his Eagles would celebrate winning the TAPPS Six-Man Division II state championship on Saturday.
He just didn’t figure it would come as quickly as it did.
The Eagles raced to a 46-0 lead in the third quarter, marking the end of the game and a victory over Duncanville Christway at Bearcat Stadium.
In the six-man game, a kick for the point after is good for two points and TAPPS rules allow the game to end once one team takes a 45-point lead.
This is the fourth title in five years for the Eagles (11-2), their first as a member of TAPPS.
Thomas Hierholzer, voted the game’s most valuable player, gained 96 of the Eagles’ 206 rushing yards and scored on runs of 1, 21 and 10 yards. His last run came with 5:37 left in the third quarter and ended the game.
Donovan Ledder and Matt Ledder had scoring runs of 3 yards each in the first quarter and Ethan Beall had a 7-yard run in the third for the Eagles.
Tyler Thompson was good on all five of his PAT kicks.
The Eagles were facing a Christway team that had scored 82 and 88 points in its previous two games and were hoping to slow the Chaparrals’ attack.
They did that one better, holding the Chaparrals to 93 yards of offense.
Reported by John Aiken
I thought that perhaps Heritage had the tougher game in Brenham, but expected Christway to take it to 40 minutes. But in this game, and against Heritage, you can find yourself way down way early and wonder how you got there. Wasn't there (in Moody), but I wouldn't be suprised if that's what happened.
Congrats to all my friends in Fredericksburg, starting with Coach Shipman and the Eagles. Another well-deserved crown. Only Granbury Happy Hill (the first D2 title in 2003; they are now D1) and Fort Worth Glenview Christian (in 2006; they are now in TCAF) have won the other TAPPS D2 titles. Maybe we'll start calling it the Shipman Trophy, like the NFL calls the Super Bowl prize the Lombardi Trophy.
Congrats as well to Christway. You don't make it that far on just luck.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high ... title.html
Web Posted: 12/06/2008 11:56 CST
Heritage claims six-man state title
San Antonio Express-News
- MOODY — Fredericksburg Heritage coach Tim Shipman had a suspicion that his Eagles would celebrate winning the TAPPS Six-Man Division II state championship on Saturday.
He just didn’t figure it would come as quickly as it did.
The Eagles raced to a 46-0 lead in the third quarter, marking the end of the game and a victory over Duncanville Christway at Bearcat Stadium.
In the six-man game, a kick for the point after is good for two points and TAPPS rules allow the game to end once one team takes a 45-point lead.
This is the fourth title in five years for the Eagles (11-2), their first as a member of TAPPS.
Thomas Hierholzer, voted the game’s most valuable player, gained 96 of the Eagles’ 206 rushing yards and scored on runs of 1, 21 and 10 yards. His last run came with 5:37 left in the third quarter and ended the game.
Donovan Ledder and Matt Ledder had scoring runs of 3 yards each in the first quarter and Ethan Beall had a 7-yard run in the third for the Eagles.
Tyler Thompson was good on all five of his PAT kicks.
The Eagles were facing a Christway team that had scored 82 and 88 points in its previous two games and were hoping to slow the Chaparrals’ attack.
They did that one better, holding the Chaparrals to 93 yards of offense.
Reported by John Aiken
old_dad
11-man fan
Jonel
It is not unusual for fans to support their own teams and act emotionally in regards to the team they support. Tell fans of the Detroit Lions they are stupid to support their team and "unrealistic" in their belief that the Lions have a chance to win the game they are going to and the reaction will not be positive. But somehow, you expect a positive response to your post.
I don't think I need you to tell me how much I need to respect the Fredricksburg program. Suffice it to say that I have seen them defeat two different teams I was rooting for and in one case, it was a close game and the second, it was not.
Not understanding how #8 affected the play of #3 would be due to your lack of seeing any Christway games this year save the state championship game. #8 also blocked for many of Burns' runs and could not do that last night. That does not take away anything from Fredricksburg - they would have won with Christway at full strength. They were amazing. I do think Christway would have scored and taken it to the full 40 minutes with #8 at full strength.
I fully respect the Fredricksburg program and Coach Shipman. I am a parent of a former St. Alban's player who was on the team that lost to Freddy in the state championship in 2005 but then ended Fredricksburg's incredible win streak in the 2006 season.
No one who plays Fredricksburg takes them lightly and to think that your post will change anyone's opinion is unrealistic. While you say you don't want to put Heritage on a pedestal, you really do.
Let the game be played on the field, not in these forums, and whomever wins, wins.
I saw a great TEAM play and win the state championship and congratulate the Heritage Eagles on a well deserved victory.
It is not unusual for fans to support their own teams and act emotionally in regards to the team they support. Tell fans of the Detroit Lions they are stupid to support their team and "unrealistic" in their belief that the Lions have a chance to win the game they are going to and the reaction will not be positive. But somehow, you expect a positive response to your post.
I don't think I need you to tell me how much I need to respect the Fredricksburg program. Suffice it to say that I have seen them defeat two different teams I was rooting for and in one case, it was a close game and the second, it was not.
Not understanding how #8 affected the play of #3 would be due to your lack of seeing any Christway games this year save the state championship game. #8 also blocked for many of Burns' runs and could not do that last night. That does not take away anything from Fredricksburg - they would have won with Christway at full strength. They were amazing. I do think Christway would have scored and taken it to the full 40 minutes with #8 at full strength.
I fully respect the Fredricksburg program and Coach Shipman. I am a parent of a former St. Alban's player who was on the team that lost to Freddy in the state championship in 2005 but then ended Fredricksburg's incredible win streak in the 2006 season.
No one who plays Fredricksburg takes them lightly and to think that your post will change anyone's opinion is unrealistic. While you say you don't want to put Heritage on a pedestal, you really do.
Let the game be played on the field, not in these forums, and whomever wins, wins.
I saw a great TEAM play and win the state championship and congratulate the Heritage Eagles on a well deserved victory.
thank you old_dad.
i know if i would not have been hurt or my TE it would have been a total different game.
especially on the defensive side of the ball.
our TE was aslo our starting DE.
it was a terrible loss for us.
it drained all of our emotion and energy and when it came down to game time we just didnt have it in us.
i am #3 lead blocker and there was always one man that came in untouched on him..
which in that case would have been my guy to pick up.
i only attended one practice during the week.
i stayed home trying to get my severe high ankle sprain back to %100.
but i never really recovered.
it also effected my ability to scramble, block, and planting my foot to throw accurate passes.
im not saying that we would have blown out heritage.
but what i am saying that we would have given yall the best game you would have seen.
i tip my hat to yall for coming prepared.
and i am sorry that we were not fully equiped with all our players to give you a run for your money.
i know if i would not have been hurt or my TE it would have been a total different game.
especially on the defensive side of the ball.
our TE was aslo our starting DE.
it was a terrible loss for us.
it drained all of our emotion and energy and when it came down to game time we just didnt have it in us.
i am #3 lead blocker and there was always one man that came in untouched on him..
which in that case would have been my guy to pick up.
i only attended one practice during the week.
i stayed home trying to get my severe high ankle sprain back to %100.
but i never really recovered.
it also effected my ability to scramble, block, and planting my foot to throw accurate passes.
im not saying that we would have blown out heritage.
but what i am saying that we would have given yall the best game you would have seen.
i tip my hat to yall for coming prepared.
and i am sorry that we were not fully equiped with all our players to give you a run for your money.
exaltHIMfirst
11-man fan
Look, I appreciate the back handed compliments given on this thread. It happens every year. If left to their own devices, players will always think that "if or that" or "would, coulda, shoulda", they could have played better, been more competitive, or it could have been a "better" game.
Guess what, injuries and not leaving everything on the field is always, always PART OF THE GAME. Freddy wins almost every year because of the discipline, their conditioning, and their depth. If you want to be more than a one hit wonder, you must think on these things throughout the season. But even after you've made all the preparations and been so, so careful, you still might have a devastating injury to the team. Once again, PART OF THE GAME.
Part of being an athlete and a championship team is giving props, no excuses no regrets. If you can't do that, then please SSSHHHH. Let the silence be your message.
Freddy never gives excuses even after a semi-final loss two years ago. I know they could have because I know what happened. That's why they are always in the hunt. It the attitude of excellence.
I have no dog in this hunt but I sometimes regret the attitudes of the young posters on this forum not being shaped and molded a little better by the mentors in their lives.
Guess what, injuries and not leaving everything on the field is always, always PART OF THE GAME. Freddy wins almost every year because of the discipline, their conditioning, and their depth. If you want to be more than a one hit wonder, you must think on these things throughout the season. But even after you've made all the preparations and been so, so careful, you still might have a devastating injury to the team. Once again, PART OF THE GAME.
Part of being an athlete and a championship team is giving props, no excuses no regrets. If you can't do that, then please SSSHHHH. Let the silence be your message.
Freddy never gives excuses even after a semi-final loss two years ago. I know they could have because I know what happened. That's why they are always in the hunt. It the attitude of excellence.
I have no dog in this hunt but I sometimes regret the attitudes of the young posters on this forum not being shaped and molded a little better by the mentors in their lives.
I will take exception to that last comment "I sometimes regret the attitudes of the young posters on this forum not being shaped and molded a little better by the mentors in their lives."
IF that comment is directed at Brian (CWA#8) I can attest to his character and his walk and the mentors in his life. Brian is a class act and left all he had on a field that many players would not have even stepped foot on with as severe an injury as he had. For two weeks in a row he played on an ankle that gave him nothing but pain and he still stepped out to lead his team and for anyone to say that he should be shaped or molded better is sophomoric at best and an attempt to hold everyone to the same standard of one persons opinion.
All he said in his post was that the game would have been different and a much tougher contest than it was, he did not come in and say Christway would have won. Yes the loss stings, but Freddy earned their victory and nobody disclaims that.
IF that comment is directed at Brian (CWA#8) I can attest to his character and his walk and the mentors in his life. Brian is a class act and left all he had on a field that many players would not have even stepped foot on with as severe an injury as he had. For two weeks in a row he played on an ankle that gave him nothing but pain and he still stepped out to lead his team and for anyone to say that he should be shaped or molded better is sophomoric at best and an attempt to hold everyone to the same standard of one persons opinion.
All he said in his post was that the game would have been different and a much tougher contest than it was, he did not come in and say Christway would have won. Yes the loss stings, but Freddy earned their victory and nobody disclaims that.
QB8, I have seen you play 3 times this year and once last year and you are an outstanding QB.But I have to agree with ExaltHim the game is over CWA lost and there is no excuses. But I do have a few questions for you. I have been around sports a long time as a player and coach. A severe sprane? Almost all Dr's would have put your foot in a boot. If you did not see a Dr. it was not severe. If you did see a DR. I can't believe he let you play in two weeks with a severe injury. If you played without a release your Coach was wrong and it looks like he cared more about winning the game then your health.I have always believe that I would rather have a 2nd team player who could go full speed then a 1st team player who could only play half speed. If you could not block, run or pass what were you doing in the game? Im sorry I feel like ExaltHim used the right two words NO EXCUSES.
old_dad
11-man fan
Heritage totally dominated the game in every aspect. They were clearly the superior team with a superior game plan that was executed to near perfection.
I would recommend that the CWA players not post anything else to this thread or to any thread regarding the state championship game. You will be tempted to state facts which will become excuses that will then be turned into indictments of your coaches and fellow players. It seems piling on to young men trying to wrap their arms around a resounding loss is considered good sport on this forum. So CWA, just don't post.
Be proud of what you accomplished, know that you need to bring your game up another level to play a team like Fredricksburg. Then come back and prove it on the field next year. Until then, the season is over and Fredricksburg Heritage is the Division II state champion.
I hope that my posts have been civil and not too fanatical over my support of the Duncanville team. I continue to congratulate Heritage and watched a well oiled machine running at top efficiency Saturday night.
But it's time for me to stop posting until next season.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
I would recommend that the CWA players not post anything else to this thread or to any thread regarding the state championship game. You will be tempted to state facts which will become excuses that will then be turned into indictments of your coaches and fellow players. It seems piling on to young men trying to wrap their arms around a resounding loss is considered good sport on this forum. So CWA, just don't post.
Be proud of what you accomplished, know that you need to bring your game up another level to play a team like Fredricksburg. Then come back and prove it on the field next year. Until then, the season is over and Fredricksburg Heritage is the Division II state champion.
I hope that my posts have been civil and not too fanatical over my support of the Duncanville team. I continue to congratulate Heritage and watched a well oiled machine running at top efficiency Saturday night.
But it's time for me to stop posting until next season.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
to cambell74 yes i did see a doctor and he suggested that i not play.
he actually told me not to be on it.
and my coach said that the choice was up to me if i wanted to play.
it was my choice to play.
and alltohim
i am not making excuses.
freddy has an amazing team.
they won and i give them the respect.
i was saying to the other people that were wondering what happened to us.
and i will not be back next year for i am a senior.
i wish my teammates the best of luck next year.
it was a very hard thing to swollow after getting humiliated like that for my final game.
but i am very greatful for that was my first state championship game.
because the three previous years i had been knocked out in the 2nd round.
but congrats to freddy!
he actually told me not to be on it.
and my coach said that the choice was up to me if i wanted to play.
it was my choice to play.
and alltohim
i am not making excuses.
freddy has an amazing team.
they won and i give them the respect.
i was saying to the other people that were wondering what happened to us.
and i will not be back next year for i am a senior.
i wish my teammates the best of luck next year.
it was a very hard thing to swollow after getting humiliated like that for my final game.
but i am very greatful for that was my first state championship game.
because the three previous years i had been knocked out in the 2nd round.
but congrats to freddy!
Christway had a amazing season! I would haved loved to see the season turn out different but it didn't all that can be done is to start preparing for next year were we can be back in the state championship game.I am soo proud of the youngmen by the way they handled themselves all season. Well everyone this will be my last post till august 09. LIVE BLUE!
