coachbronk
Six-man fan
I just saw the final alignment this morning and it looks like TAPPS has made 3 divisions in six-man now just as they have in 11-man. Any thoughts as to why?
TAPPS Six-man Alignment
- Thread starter coachbronk
- Start date
Shane
11-man fan
Maybe it will make district play a little more competitive. That would be a good thing for everybody, I think. I wonder how it will change the playoff system.
freeagent
Six-man pro
Well, not sure about that. Maybe in D1 and D2, there are decent sized districts, but D3 is full of four and five team districts (one is 6 team), and it's more likely that smaller schools are easily afflicted by not enough kids to finish the season disease. I just like larger districts (6-8 teams). Maybe this helps folks like San Antonio Town East get back into district play.
I'm not in the loop on this, but my guess is that there was a push to get Houston Emery Weiner into the district mix.
There was at least one other school I heard was a possibility of moving from 11 man to 6 man, but they are not on this list. Also, I'm not sure about the status of Giddings State for future six-man participation, but my guess is they would be D1 or D2 in adjusted enrollment numbers. (Giddings shows 299 on the TAPPS roster, but I understand it is adjusted significantly for the number of those at that facility that are ineligible for participation under state and facility regulations; that could cut that number by half or more.)
Link for new districts: http://tapps.net/wp-content/uploads/6-MAN-DISTRICTS.pdf
I'm not in the loop on this, but my guess is that there was a push to get Houston Emery Weiner into the district mix.
There was at least one other school I heard was a possibility of moving from 11 man to 6 man, but they are not on this list. Also, I'm not sure about the status of Giddings State for future six-man participation, but my guess is they would be D1 or D2 in adjusted enrollment numbers. (Giddings shows 299 on the TAPPS roster, but I understand it is adjusted significantly for the number of those at that facility that are ineligible for participation under state and facility regulations; that could cut that number by half or more.)
Link for new districts: http://tapps.net/wp-content/uploads/6-MAN-DISTRICTS.pdf
freeagent
Six-man pro
Okay, here's another "big surprise..." Galveston O'Connell is now in six-man (division II).
Div 1- 19 schools, 3 districts
Div 2- 21 schools, 4 districts
Div 3- 20 schools, 4 districts
My guess is that the playoff field is going to be cut to 8 or 12 schools; if you went 16 schools, you'd be pulling 1-lotsalosses teams into the playoffs.
Div 1- 19 schools, 3 districts
Div 2- 21 schools, 4 districts
Div 3- 20 schools, 4 districts
My guess is that the playoff field is going to be cut to 8 or 12 schools; if you went 16 schools, you'd be pulling 1-lotsalosses teams into the playoffs.
Shane
11-man fan
Large districts are good if the schools are competitive. But if they're not, I'd just as soon have a smaller district so there would be more room on the schedule to play competitive non-district games. Blowouts aren't much fun for either team. Along with that thought, an 8-team playoff system would be better, in my opinion.
I understand what you are saying about the smaller schools not being able to finish the season. But rather than having those issues affect the larger schools that have enough kids to be able to play every game, I can understand and appreciate the idea of grouping the smaller schools together where they can participate (as much as they're able) on a more even level with each other.
I don't intend those comments to be in any way disparaging toward smaller schools. They're great schools with great kids, parents, coaches, etc... Numbers are what they are though. I hope that they'll see their enrollments grow so that their kids and coaches won't have to worry about having enough players to finish a schedule. Then we could have bigger and more competitive districts in D1 and D2 - good for everybody if that happens.
Heck, I'd love to see our school's enrollment grow to the point where we'd have to play 11-man - not because I'd prefer to see our team playing 11-man, but because I'd love it if more families could be blessed by our school the way that ours has been.
I understand what you are saying about the smaller schools not being able to finish the season. But rather than having those issues affect the larger schools that have enough kids to be able to play every game, I can understand and appreciate the idea of grouping the smaller schools together where they can participate (as much as they're able) on a more even level with each other.
I don't intend those comments to be in any way disparaging toward smaller schools. They're great schools with great kids, parents, coaches, etc... Numbers are what they are though. I hope that they'll see their enrollments grow so that their kids and coaches won't have to worry about having enough players to finish a schedule. Then we could have bigger and more competitive districts in D1 and D2 - good for everybody if that happens.
Heck, I'd love to see our school's enrollment grow to the point where we'd have to play 11-man - not because I'd prefer to see our team playing 11-man, but because I'd love it if more families could be blessed by our school the way that ours has been.
coachbronk
Six-man fan
I know that the one team FreeAgent was referring to did not make the move to six-man because its parents were upset at the possibility despite getting beat up week in and week out in 11-man.
I noticed that in D2 that Concordia High School-Round Rock is now listed. Are they fielding a football team beginning next year?
I noticed that in D2 that Concordia High School-Round Rock is now listed. Are they fielding a football team beginning next year?
freeagent
Six-man pro
coachbronk":jk19tz2t said:
Thanks, John, for pointing out a school I didn't notice. And it's a day of celebration when a new school starts up a football program (as opposed to schools who, due to enrollment or participation, go from 11 man to 6 man).
Now let me look at that list again ... okay no other suprises.
And thanks for confirming the one possible move that I had heard about isn't going to happen .
6 man believer
11-man fan
This isn't any good. Competitive districts are already slim now. As of right now there are only three teams with realistic chances to win State in Tapps D1: Covenant, Boerne, and Abilene. Those teams get better by playing better public schools throughout the season. Now they will have to 45 district teams in their district and not get any better. Schools like Covenant and Abilene won't be able to play Throck, Strawn, Valley, Water Valley, etc because they have use those dates for less competitive district opponents. I love going to see top private schools vs public schools.
No body wants to see power house private schools killing all the other private schools at half time ever week. Kids love to play good competition and this will take away from it. Only having 3 districts in your top division is weak and stupid. No they will have to probably take away a playoff game from these boys too. The boys love to play football games! Now a State Championship can be crowned by only winning 3 games if there is a 8 team playoff. Talk about embarrassing. Private schools already get a lack of respect from other public schools and 11 man teams. This only gives them another reason to disrespect us and prove we are just small time.
No body wants to see power house private schools killing all the other private schools at half time ever week. Kids love to play good competition and this will take away from it. Only having 3 districts in your top division is weak and stupid. No they will have to probably take away a playoff game from these boys too. The boys love to play football games! Now a State Championship can be crowned by only winning 3 games if there is a 8 team playoff. Talk about embarrassing. Private schools already get a lack of respect from other public schools and 11 man teams. This only gives them another reason to disrespect us and prove we are just small time.
centexfan7
11-man fan
Absolutely agree with the previous post. Top public schools vs. top private schools are some of the best games out there.
Shane
11-man fan
I don't know if winning the first round or two of the playoffs by 45+ at halftime gives us any more "street cred" than having fewer teams in the playoffs would. Same difference, really.
I do know that the top teams now won't always be the top teams in TAPPS every year from now on. There will always be a rise and fall, due to the nature of small enrollments. Our middle school grades right now just don't have as many athletes as the high school grades do. We have some GREAT kids in middle school, but just not many football players. We probably won't be one of the stronger teams in TAPPS for too much longer unless we see a few more athletes move in to those classes. It sounds like DC may be in a similar situation with some of the younger classes. I don't know about Geneva. They may be loaded for a long time?? Maybe a couple of the teams that are in a down period currently have some great athletes in middle school right now. The names will change every now and then, but hopefully TAPPS can successfully juggle all of that so that schools can compete with other schools on similar levels, wherever they are on the totem pole. 4-quarter competitive ball games are always more exciting, challenging and fun for everybody than blowouts. There's no way to completely level the playing field for everybody. There just aren't enough TAPPS teams to divide up into enough groups where everybody could be on a more even level. I doubt there ever will be.
That's why I still prefer smaller districts too. That allows coaches more flexibility in their scheduling to play against more teams that can provide a more competitive game - at whatever level your team is playing at right now. We used to have 3-4 team districts, and (personally) I liked that much better. We got to play more of the great public schools in our area. I would much rather drive an hour or so to a small town in West Texas to watch a game than drive 2-4 hours to a big city. That's just my personal preference. I'm sure my preferences were a huge factor that the TAPPS folks were considering. HaHa!
Whatever they decide, I'm sure we'll continue to show up and root for the Panthers at whatever games end up on our schedule, whether the Panthers are a power house or not.
I do know that the top teams now won't always be the top teams in TAPPS every year from now on. There will always be a rise and fall, due to the nature of small enrollments. Our middle school grades right now just don't have as many athletes as the high school grades do. We have some GREAT kids in middle school, but just not many football players. We probably won't be one of the stronger teams in TAPPS for too much longer unless we see a few more athletes move in to those classes. It sounds like DC may be in a similar situation with some of the younger classes. I don't know about Geneva. They may be loaded for a long time?? Maybe a couple of the teams that are in a down period currently have some great athletes in middle school right now. The names will change every now and then, but hopefully TAPPS can successfully juggle all of that so that schools can compete with other schools on similar levels, wherever they are on the totem pole. 4-quarter competitive ball games are always more exciting, challenging and fun for everybody than blowouts. There's no way to completely level the playing field for everybody. There just aren't enough TAPPS teams to divide up into enough groups where everybody could be on a more even level. I doubt there ever will be.
That's why I still prefer smaller districts too. That allows coaches more flexibility in their scheduling to play against more teams that can provide a more competitive game - at whatever level your team is playing at right now. We used to have 3-4 team districts, and (personally) I liked that much better. We got to play more of the great public schools in our area. I would much rather drive an hour or so to a small town in West Texas to watch a game than drive 2-4 hours to a big city. That's just my personal preference. I'm sure my preferences were a huge factor that the TAPPS folks were considering. HaHa!
Whatever they decide, I'm sure we'll continue to show up and root for the Panthers at whatever games end up on our schedule, whether the Panthers are a power house or not.
CoachBurger
11-man fan
I am in the loop on this one, and I can tell you that Emery Weiner staying in six man as well as a few teams starting up their team affected the decision to go to three districts. I love the move, because now all three divisions are even playing fields. Right now in TAPPS D1 there are schools with 70+ boys playing schools with 40 boys. This move makes all the divisions more even, with D3 being less than 40 boys, D2 being 40-52, and D1 being 52+. This does not affect Private Schools playing Public schools... there are still the same amount of pre-district games in most cases so teams are free to schedule who they want. If you look at each division they are all very even. And Division 1 has three districts.. with 5 teams in each.. that means 4 district games. That's less, not more. And there are no rules that say you can't schedule out-of-division games in preseason. So if you have a great team in D3 and feel like playing one of those D1 schools, you are fine to do so as well.
freeagent
Six-man pro
Okay, guys. Here's my take.
Whatever we talk about Covenant and Geneva, just remember. It'll probably be the last two laps around the track for those two as six-man programs in 2014 and 2015. Covenant is playing 11-man JV starting next year and my bet is Geneva will do that in junior high in 2014 and maybe JV in 2015 (although I have no inside knowledge on Geneva's plans).
Having played in 3 and 4 team districts and in 6 to 8 team districts, I will tell you that the MOST competitive districts were the larger districts. In a small district, you can lose your first game and pretty well be out of the playoff competition and just play out the last couple weeks. In a larger district, you often still have several teams in playoff contention in the final week. Sure, you're going to have some district blowouts, but c'mon, don't tell me that EVERY one of your six or seven non-district contests are going to be against UIL powerhouses. You're gonna find Small Town Little Kids Public School just as well as you'll find Little Sisters of the Poor Catholic School. After all, you do want an easy game for Homecoming, right? And since you'll play them on the road one of those two years, you need to find a second "cupcake" for the other Homecoming contest.
One thing a larger district schedule makes you think seriously about WHO you want to schedule for non-district games. You have to put some thought into the team you expect to have the next two years and how you want to build them for district play. Young team, you might want to schedule teams that will allow your youngsters to develop; lots of talented upperclassmen, you might want to add a few challenges. It's a chess match however you do it.
One justification I could see for three divisions is that UIL by rule says they will have 16 districts in their two 1A (six-man) classifications and this keeps options for non-district contests against UIL schools open late into the season. But then again, there are more private six-man schools east of IH-35 and the majority of public six-man schools are west of IH-35 so it's not as easy as it sounds. For example, we at Seguin Lifegate have played six-man for 11 years. Only four games (of something like 125) in those years have been against public schools. I doubt if we're going to add Follett to the schedule. And there's a lot of private schools east of here.
I would have preferred staying with the Div 1/Div II format, with 30 schools in each division and four or five districts of 6 to 8 teams per district, and a 16 team playoff field. I can't see more than 12 teams in the playoffs under this format. Emery Weiner and Galveston O'Connell could have been absorbed under that 2 division format as well. A good number of those teams in D1 have played Emery Weiner in the past, so adding them to the provisional district format might have worked as well. You will always have teams that can compete above their division -- as well as teams that continue to struggle to compete even with teams in the lower divisions.
But as I mentioned in the past, nobody asked my opinion. If those districts remain stable and we don't lose teams (for example, take a look at D2, Division 3 the last two years), this will probably work okay. I expect there will be some issues concerning travel (Midland to Rockwall; El Paso to Wichita Falls), but those always are a problem. El Paso just can't be towed about 250 miles to the northeast as much as it would make things easier. I hate to call out teams, but folks like San Antonio Lutheran and Kingwood NE Christian haven't been real reliable to last through the season but they are going to have to during this next realignment cycle. Seems those schools (and some others) can get varsity with a JV numbers for basketball, but not for six-man football.
I guess we'll see if it works and when 2016-2018 realignment comes around if there are problems with three divisions, it's time for the schools involved to make their opinions known. It's not like there aren't a good number of people in TAPPS leadership or administration that aren't familiar with six-man football.
Whatever we talk about Covenant and Geneva, just remember. It'll probably be the last two laps around the track for those two as six-man programs in 2014 and 2015. Covenant is playing 11-man JV starting next year and my bet is Geneva will do that in junior high in 2014 and maybe JV in 2015 (although I have no inside knowledge on Geneva's plans).
Having played in 3 and 4 team districts and in 6 to 8 team districts, I will tell you that the MOST competitive districts were the larger districts. In a small district, you can lose your first game and pretty well be out of the playoff competition and just play out the last couple weeks. In a larger district, you often still have several teams in playoff contention in the final week. Sure, you're going to have some district blowouts, but c'mon, don't tell me that EVERY one of your six or seven non-district contests are going to be against UIL powerhouses. You're gonna find Small Town Little Kids Public School just as well as you'll find Little Sisters of the Poor Catholic School. After all, you do want an easy game for Homecoming, right? And since you'll play them on the road one of those two years, you need to find a second "cupcake" for the other Homecoming contest.
One thing a larger district schedule makes you think seriously about WHO you want to schedule for non-district games. You have to put some thought into the team you expect to have the next two years and how you want to build them for district play. Young team, you might want to schedule teams that will allow your youngsters to develop; lots of talented upperclassmen, you might want to add a few challenges. It's a chess match however you do it.
One justification I could see for three divisions is that UIL by rule says they will have 16 districts in their two 1A (six-man) classifications and this keeps options for non-district contests against UIL schools open late into the season. But then again, there are more private six-man schools east of IH-35 and the majority of public six-man schools are west of IH-35 so it's not as easy as it sounds. For example, we at Seguin Lifegate have played six-man for 11 years. Only four games (of something like 125) in those years have been against public schools. I doubt if we're going to add Follett to the schedule. And there's a lot of private schools east of here.
I would have preferred staying with the Div 1/Div II format, with 30 schools in each division and four or five districts of 6 to 8 teams per district, and a 16 team playoff field. I can't see more than 12 teams in the playoffs under this format. Emery Weiner and Galveston O'Connell could have been absorbed under that 2 division format as well. A good number of those teams in D1 have played Emery Weiner in the past, so adding them to the provisional district format might have worked as well. You will always have teams that can compete above their division -- as well as teams that continue to struggle to compete even with teams in the lower divisions.
But as I mentioned in the past, nobody asked my opinion. If those districts remain stable and we don't lose teams (for example, take a look at D2, Division 3 the last two years), this will probably work okay. I expect there will be some issues concerning travel (Midland to Rockwall; El Paso to Wichita Falls), but those always are a problem. El Paso just can't be towed about 250 miles to the northeast as much as it would make things easier. I hate to call out teams, but folks like San Antonio Lutheran and Kingwood NE Christian haven't been real reliable to last through the season but they are going to have to during this next realignment cycle. Seems those schools (and some others) can get varsity with a JV numbers for basketball, but not for six-man football.
I guess we'll see if it works and when 2016-2018 realignment comes around if there are problems with three divisions, it's time for the schools involved to make their opinions known. It's not like there aren't a good number of people in TAPPS leadership or administration that aren't familiar with six-man football.
Shane
11-man fan
The district we'll be in next year has 7 teams versus 5 this year. The other two D1 districts have 6 each. Next year's D1 districts will definitely be more competitive than this year's districts though, so it will be a wash probably (compared to getting to play more public schools).
loveofgame
11-man fan
My only issue is the actual teams in the districts. In DIII, that means a LOT of traveling for teams with a LITTLE budget.
FultonFootball
11-man fan
I don't get on here much to comment, but I will say Tapps is really trying to do what is best for the whole organization. I understand Brownwood and El Paso's concerns about little budget and travel especially being a class 1A school.
Look at Midland's district- Arlington Pantego, FWC, Ft. Worth Southwest,Grace Prep, Grapevine, Waco. Now those schools have bigger budgets than we have.
My suggestion would be for trips more than 3 hrs, maybe play at a neutral site. I really like the 3 divisions in 6man football; we have 3 football divisions in the 11man ranks. I can tell you personally now being on the AEC board, the Tapps administration, wants to do what's best for class 1A -5A schools.
Coach Johnson
Head Football
Heath-Fulton
Look at Midland's district- Arlington Pantego, FWC, Ft. Worth Southwest,Grace Prep, Grapevine, Waco. Now those schools have bigger budgets than we have.
My suggestion would be for trips more than 3 hrs, maybe play at a neutral site. I really like the 3 divisions in 6man football; we have 3 football divisions in the 11man ranks. I can tell you personally now being on the AEC board, the Tapps administration, wants to do what's best for class 1A -5A schools.
Coach Johnson
Head Football
Heath-Fulton
football jersey
11-man fan
My take is TAPPS has not enforced the legal limits for 6 man in for ever, so they created more rules that don't require enforcement! 10 to 15 kids shouldn't have to play a team that has 40-45 kids.
freeagent
Six-man pro
I guess the three division alignment will work as long as the teams assigned to the districts are going to be able to field teams in the next two years.
But if we take previous experience into account, we're going to find that schools can't play that previously committed ... and all of a sudden, a four or five team district turns into a two team district. When we have that happen multiple times, then the decision to go three divisions is going to be questioned. If not, well, it may work out pretty well. Will be interesting if all three finals games will be on one date or there will be a Friday night game and two Saturday games, and how the playoff pool will be drawn. I can't see 16 team fields in these divisions (since each division is about 20 schools), but 8 or 12 team fields will be probable; a 12 team field requires four byes in Week 11, so you have to hope that your district doesn't have week 10 byes or you might be off two weeks in a row prior to playoffs.
However you draw districts and divisions, you are going to always find schools that have problems competing in that division. In fact, you -- or I -- can point to some schools assigned in Division I that would have problems being competitive even in Division III and some D3 teams that could hold their own in D1.
But if we take previous experience into account, we're going to find that schools can't play that previously committed ... and all of a sudden, a four or five team district turns into a two team district. When we have that happen multiple times, then the decision to go three divisions is going to be questioned. If not, well, it may work out pretty well. Will be interesting if all three finals games will be on one date or there will be a Friday night game and two Saturday games, and how the playoff pool will be drawn. I can't see 16 team fields in these divisions (since each division is about 20 schools), but 8 or 12 team fields will be probable; a 12 team field requires four byes in Week 11, so you have to hope that your district doesn't have week 10 byes or you might be off two weeks in a row prior to playoffs.
However you draw districts and divisions, you are going to always find schools that have problems competing in that division. In fact, you -- or I -- can point to some schools assigned in Division I that would have problems being competitive even in Division III and some D3 teams that could hold their own in D1.
loveofgame
11-man fan
I think the board did a good job with the three divisions, I have no problem with that. However, looking at the districts, they screwed the pooch on putting those together.
FultonFootball
11-man fan
Coach, do you suggest your team plays in district 3 division 3?
loveofgame
11-man fan
To be honest, I'm not sure. I'd have to lay it all out however, I don't see making trips to LT, or even your school very good when there's much closer schools around us. I know for us, we will back TAPPS all the way but, I do see this pushing some schools out to TCAL or TCAF, which none of us want I believe.
