Tackling Strategies

BE,
If you didnt win anymore games focusing on "skill" than you did on "fundamentals" whats the difference?

I would interject that w/o fundamentals you will have no skills. A program starting from scratch like fofish's should focus almost solely on fundamentals for the time being... this is what all programs are built on. Even Coach Lee's great teams are coached on the fundamental's, by the way, this years team from Strawn was one of the best blocking teams I have ever seen. They usually were pretty sure tacklers until they met a certain young man named Colunga. I would have to say fresh programs need a fresh start. Start OVER!!! If you can play fundamental football, you will be competitive. You are right talent, just about always beats "try". But if "try is what you got, then "try" is what you do. Otherwise, you should just not practice, and show up for the games and get your tail-kickin' over with.

Fofish, my advice start from scratch tell the kids to forget everything they know/think they know about football spend off-season getting stronger/faster/bigger and working on fundamental drills. Even tackling form can be taught and worked on w/o pads this way technique is perfected before testosterone gets in the way. This I would say should be applied to all things. Blocking, Tackling, route running, pursuit angles etc... Just Start Over from the beginning!!! May take a few years, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't block and can't tackle you can't win.... Plain and Simple
 
It is all good grasshopper.

BE, I know you put up a lot of state championships so far so I value your opinion.......does not mean there are not new ways to do it though. Anyway, BE, should a player tackle through the numbers or go for the legs? I learned under Coach Campbell, another great winning coach. He always taught us to watch the chest as you can not fake with the chest and to tackle THROUGH the numbers. I was probably not very good at it as I ended up only playing offense. LOL My boy plays JH ball for Strawn and I have been to every game for 2 years now. I see a lot of low tackleing and I see a lot of missed tackles resulting in touchdowns. If they were not going for the ankles I think they would make more tackles. I am not a coach by a long shot, just a former player and fan. And no, am not critisizing Strawns program......I do not believe for a second that the JH kids are being told to go for the ankles.

Thanks for the input,

Andy
 
This is all great stuff!
I'm going to conduct a little experiment or math project.
I'm going to start watching film and count all successful tackles: high or low, and then the misses:high and low, and a catagory where two guys made a ball carrier sandwich.
Not counting the ones where the whole team swamps a guy. Just the ones where it's pretty obvious one or at most two guys brought the ball carrier down.
We'll see what the boys are actually doing regardless of what we're trying to teach them.
 
Maybe you should take notes from BE...I think he has a point. Im not going to call it wasting time, but worrying about one fundamental seems like a bad idea. Your younger players look up to the older ones so if you are just going to start a drill for the younger players on your team your star players might get dumber for watching. I would worry more about having players in the right places and knowing their positions rather than making sure they can see the target that their mom sewed on their pants. I think they can figure out how to take the player down, but knowing to keep the play inside and keep containment is a lot harder for a younger inexperienced player.
 
Listen , I'm not going to sit here and pretend to lecture a coach like Lee, any of them: Dewaine, Mitch or Robert. These guys have probably "forgotten more football than I will ever know," however, the approach I'm preaching is another way to develop your players and team to a very high skill level. And if you doubt it can be done get copies of Rule and Strawn and notice how their offences changed from 2005 to 2006 in Rule, and 2007 to 2008 in Strawn...a hundred percent improvement in both their passing games.

Is it a coincidence that RS displayed really good Spreadbacks from 1999 to 2009? Of course not. The skills needed to be a top run/pass threat were stressed from March through summer and everyday during the football season. I kid you not, in 2003 Jared Hicks was a lousy passer from March until just before the start of the playoffs. Then, from about week seven and especially in the Gordon, Calvert and Strawn games he was electrifying through the air. We didn't allow him to throw five times in our bidistrict game against Water Valley and he still threw for just under eight hundred yards in the playoffs.

Whatever. Let me say one more thing. It is a mistake to base your practices on the idea that all fundamentals should be practiced equally. Don't do it, man. You better have more than good tackling if you want to play more than a half against teams like GC, Strawn, Throckmorton or RS, and some others as well.
In 2004, 2006 and 2007 we played four or five teams who had equal or superior talent than we had. I'm serious! Happy and Valley Christian out of New Mexico had the best sixman talent that I have seen in fifteen years of watching sixman football. Throckmorton, Rule, Calvert and Blum were less than a hair beneath them. Blum and Rule dominated the state trackmeets in 2007 and 2008. But we had three or four sources of compensation, and none of them were natural gifts. Okay, Ty's arm might be debatable to some slight degree. :P Even so, that gift was improved every year, intentionally.

I'll close by saying that the 2004 championship team worked on tackling drills maybe a total of an hour that year. Our first priority was to improve their catching ability, and we did that four times per week for a considerable amount of time. Ask any of them, but you may want to duck...they didn't always agree with the goals we set each week. In 2006 we spent a ton of money on tackling equipment, and honestly maybe one senior benefitted, visually. In 2007 we never used them after the first couple of weeks. But they could all catch that ball and run super routes. And most of them knew who and how to block. A few were better than average tacklers. We probably lost our top tackler after the 2006 season when Jesstin Fox decided to get his GED. After stressing the need for several individuals to step up defensively in 2007, Andrew Fowler, Patrick Couch and Mark Williams improved their play so much that Tyler and Shelby's tackles dropped off considerably the entire year. Cause and effect!

Oh, and don't lump blocking with tackling. Blocking schemes are today more than just drive blocking or pancake blocking. Today the hands are legal, when we played they were not tolerated much. Therefore, some time must be devoted to it when needed. It takes a while to teach the average Joe how and who to seal block properly, and when to go second level.
 
sixpack34 said:
BE,
If you didnt win anymore games focusing on "skill" than you did on "fundamentals" whats the difference?

I missed your question, sorry. We all realize it takes time to develop sports specific skills and fundamentals, right. But remember to set your goals high, not low. Many times a team is hamstrung by a coach who sets his team and individual goals too low. I did that for two years myself after initially trying to develop some ideas I got from Mitch Lee, Nelson Campbell and Doyle Clawson. But after applying those ideas for three or four weeks I panicked and pulled my goals why back to something I could feel good about immediately...it was like instant gratification...why wait for a delicious roast with all the trimmings when I could slap together a peanut butter and jelly in ninety seconds. That was my mentality.
It wasn't until I was at RS that I saw the benefits of aiming as high as it would take to challenge the best teams. Jared Hicks had to step from five years of playing runningback and receiver to being our spreadback , and that shift didn't totally happen for months. Sure, he could score 64 tds on the ground, but unless he accomplished some good measure of passing skill, our season was going to end against a Gordon, Calvert or Strawn. While he was still struggling to find his throwing ability we accomplished putting together a very good rushing attack.

Let me tell you how that occurred. After four weeks of two-a-days and scrimmages it was clearly apparent that Jared was not going to be able to get the ball to our second best player that year Logan Lewis, who had developed into an all-state caliber receiver during his freshman and soph. years. Coach Clawson knew that the best players must touch the ball as often as possible if we hoped to beat the best teams we would surely face down the road. The Saturday before our first game he made the decision to move Logan from receiver to Spread Upback and Jaybird QB. I was amazed at his decision because it would involve moving Logan from a position he mastered and dearly loved to one that demanded pitching and lead blocking for the SB most of the time...from a somewhat glamour position to one that required a workhorse mentality. Of course Logan would be the primary target for the dump pass, too. But without a strong pass threat coach realized our running attack would have to be stellar.


On Monday while in the huddle coach summarized our situation and then informed Logan of his permanent position change. Their was no debate or feeling out process. He just simply looked at Logan for a good ten or fifteen seconds and said "we need you to go to upback". Upon hearing this Logan stepped one leg out of the huddle, staired at the ground until the team broke huddle and moved to upback from that moment until the day we won state a year and a half later. And after a short adjustment period of maybe two days, he became one of the best upbacks RS ever produced. His pitching and chopblocking became the best we ever had in my six years at that school. That young man could cut a rusher in half when we needed a sweep like nobody I have ever seen before or since.

I got off point. The fact is that as a coach you have to make a decision to devote the best attempt possible to develop your team's skills, and in the above case Clawson's faith payed off for our running game and carried us until Jared eventually found his arm later in the season. Had he chosen the cowardly way and decided against moving Logan beause of his love and comfort at the receiver position, who knows how our season would have developed. As it was we barely beat Austin Regents and Valley Christian early in the season. And neither of them were shabby teams--Regents was in the middle of three consecutive TAPPS championships and Valley Christian would win two New Mexico titles in a row. They were incredibly talented. Clawson did a brilliant job defensively against them, but that's a story for another day. I think Logan's willingness to sacrifice his preference made us thirty points better, without which we would have lost to both of those private schools.


By setting our indidvidual and team goals higher than it appeared we could reach, our players eventually rose to the challenge and mastered their responsibilities well enough to get to the state semi-finals. And let me add that coming into that season after losing three of the best seniors in RS history, the season looked somewhat challenging, even bleak on paper. Two of the players who would have to step up and contribute on both sides of the ball played jv the entire regular season the year before. And three others sat on the varsity bench and rarely saw action the year before. I remember one discussion after the first week of two-a-days in the coaches' office when a season record of 7-4 or 8-3 was probable if our guys didn't step up in major ways. And they did. I shouldn't say this but my first impression of John Poe in 2002 on the jv was that he would have fit right in at the school i was at before RS, and we won one varsity game in two years there. But during the course of the season he matured into a dependable defensive lineman and by the following year we used him without a second thought on offense as well. In fact during our playoff run to the champioship the next year John was our second leading receiver in tds during the playoffs behind Pablo. And if not for his all-state presence in 2004 on both sides of the ball I doubt we would have made it to the state game, let alone win it.

In retrospect, had I done the same thing at Hermleigh we would have won more than one game. I have to be honest with myself...because of my lack of coaching ability and faith we were beaten by several teams we should have beaten had I applied the same strategy we used at RS. I'm not saying we would have competed for a district title, absolutely not. But we probably lost at least three games my first year there because of the low goals I set for us. I had the correct goals early, then lowered them after a few weeks. As a result I caused the players to be a team of underachievers.

I apologize for the novel...i need to get a life. :oops:
 
"I apologize for the novel...i need to get a life."

No need to apologize. I read the whole thing. If you need a life for writing, then I'm in really bad shape for reading.
 
If you think what i was saying was that fofish and his team should aim "low" as part of their team goals you missed my point, I would simply rahter have a team with the basic skills of tackling and blocking technique before I moved on to coaching them up on skills related to positions and route running...etc.... in my opinion part of teaching the proper technique would consist of turning the play inside and gang tackling, howeer these are skills to be taught later, once basic technique is mastered. I think you should aim high, but if your kids dont have the proper skills to play the game your goals will only come out pipe-dreams, I am absolutely certain that somewhere in there the RS took the time to explain proper techniques for every single thing they did...whether in junior high or high school it was discussed and taught....

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm simply saying it was part of the program somewhere in the 6-7 years those kids played for RS.

I was trying to make the point that if fofish's squad is absent all these skills/fundamental abilities, which he admits they are. The best course in my opinion is to start from the beginning. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither were the Strawn's, RS, Gordon's, PC's and other great programs of the world. Someone believed they could make a difference in the program at these places and went there to do just that and started from the beginning blocking and tackling... Then it evolved into... something great over a period of 10, 20, 30, 40 years!

I will leave you with this thought as well...... OFFENSE WINS GAMES, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
 
Sixpack', ordinarily that old cliche would be accurate, but often it is not at the sixman level. You don't have to look far for some good examples. First and foremost are a couple of games from this past season. Defense did not win the GC-Throckmorton quarter-final game, nor was it the difference in the state game where 210 points were scored. Of course some good D was evident in both games...both teams lined up on defense...tackles were made and turnovers were caused, but saying that defense won either game would be ludicrous. The same goes with our 2006 state championship against Rule. Yes both teams managed to force the other team to punt once or twice, force several takeaways, turn the ball over on downs once maybe, but 78-58 indicates an offensive battle, not a defensive one.

Words mean things, and the word "defense" traditionally described at least one team's D overpowering and dominating the other team's offense. Two good examples are the 2005 championship game when Throck' 45ed Valley and the Division ll game this year between Highland and BC. Look at this:


STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS:

2001: 27 - 21
2002: 51-46
2003: 67-62
2004: 58-38
2005: 68-22
2006: 78-58
2007: 98-54
2008: 58-29
2009: 122-88

I see maybe two championships won with defense, the 2001 and the 2005 games. One could argue for the 2008 game, too. I think the 2000 game ended something like 42-36, not sure. So in ten state championship games this decade seven were won with high scoring offenses and three with stingy defenses.

Your right in saying that Rome wasn't built in a day, however many football programs have been. In 1998 RS went 5-5 or 6-4, Clawson's first year they finished 11-3 and lost to Gordon in the semis. And believe me RS was pathetic for decades after the 1950s, with only a few exceptions. Talafuse transformed a traditionally mediocre Blum team to one of the best in sixman in two short years, actually less. His 2006 squad would have challenged Rule's claim to the championship had they been able to get past us. And look what Crawford has done in Abbott the past eight or nine years. Vance Jones constructed a perennial loser at Sanderson into a top five program in about two years, and was state champion in 2002 until Paul Green had to exit the game. And in 2001 they had eventual state champ. Whitharral on the ropes for three quarters of the game and more. And don't forget about Ft. Hancock, a team who came from obscurity before Coach Medina arrived, and returned the year after he left.
I once heard him say to a group of coaches at a clinic that he could take many teams that he 45ed and in three or four weeks coach that same team up to point where it could beat most of the teams represented in that clinic...something along those lines. :?:
 
BE, I feel that again you have missed my point entirely.

I am NOT saying that tackling is the key fundamental skill that needs to be taught in football.
I AM saying that in a program with little to no tradition that the fundamentals should start the new regimes program.

Further, of the programs you named Blum, Abbott, Sanderson, etc.. there are some others that I can think of as well, but to get to the point... I know for a fact that 2 of those three teams played great defense and I also know that whild Blum did not have and exceptional defense they were no slouch in this category. Sanderson especially was in position to win the 2002 state championship, unitl Paul Green (State Def. MVP) I believe was forced to leave the game with a severe concussion. Abbott is usually not very prolific on offense. Heck they really only have 8-10 plays that they run consistently. However they run those plays extremely effectively. Blum was the same way not real flashy, had a few base plays and were real competititve with Abbott in the bi district round in 2002 I believe, but were eventually beaten, when they couldn't score... Final score 32-20
To further make my point Abbott I would say in 2005 had superior talent to Blum and tried to get into a scoring competition and eventually ran out of gas and Lost final score 92-82.
Again, in 2008 they beat a Calvert team that everyone in the state thought was going 45 Abbott at halftime. Calvert had been #1 in granger's poll all year the score at halftime 38-0 and had it not been for a few poor ball security issues close to the end of the half it would have been 45-0 Abbott. They played EXTREMELY stingy defense had the Calvert offense reeling.
Calvert adjusted at half and slowly began to scrape their way back, but again Abbott's defense dug them out of a whole. Stopped them on I think 3 straight possessions late in the game.

Strawn in their 2003 state championship was playing exceptional defense don't remember the exact score, but I do know for a fact that at one point they were up by 40+ and were seemingly going to put the game away. However, they also had ball security ISSUES.... If memory serves correct they had either (7 fumbles and 2 Int's or 9 fumbles) I do know they had something to the tune of 10 turnovers in a little over a half of football. Also if I remember right all but 2 scores of Ft. Davis' came off of Strawn turnovers.

In 2009 Strawn did not make it to the Championship by playing only on one side of the ball. They played very good defense. Only gave up 185 points all year until they met a young man named Colunga. Had 5 games where they didnt even give up a single score. Some of their best players were just as good playing defense as they were playing offense. I.E. Trey Doyle

I again leave you with this thought.... OFFENSE WINS games DEFENSE wins CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!
 
Turnovers lose games. I think this is what you should focus on in practice. It doesn't matter if you are on offense or defense, force turnovers and prevent them. You have to work on everything. Be good in both the running and passing game. Not good, but efficient enough so that if you come across a team like rule who in 2006 and 2007 could run circles around most of the players, you can always pick them apart with a little bit of the passing game. Our plan was to throw throw throw. Thats all we worked on that week. We held them to several 4th downs but no matter what they were determined not to turn the ball over. RS beat Rule because they were good at both the passing and running game. They had a tripple threat.
 
I disagree with most of what everyone is saying. It is all about the athletes you can get to come to your school. I do not care how good a coach you are. If you have a TE or a Hicks or that kid at GC, you can muster a district championship and a decent run in the playoffs. (I will give props to BE for the work he put into his son. RS benefited greatly from that.)
If sixman coaches can get 3A and 2A athletes to come to their school, they can do great things. But show me one of these great coaches who will take the challenge and go to the Mullins and Novices of our state and take the players they have there and win state. I do not see that happening.
 
I read my post again. I came across as sounding like the coaches who have had success at sixman have not really done anything. I apologize for that. I have witnessed some very good programs. However, I have also witnessed some great coaches who have never had the raw talent to get very far. These coaches (in my book) are just as good if not better than anyone. In a head-to-head match with any state championship coach with equal talent I would put money on some of these other coaches. Maybe it is their fault for not moving to schools with a winning tradition, I do not know.
 
By the way, BE, I agree with someone that posted earlier. You need to write a book. I enjoy your insights. I have used some of your posts in coaching my son's pee wee team.
 
Hey, that helped me to remember an old saying relevant to our topic:

When planning your practices keep the focus pee wee,
To have the best chance against Strawn and GC.

..............................................................author unknown :oops:
 
"...Offense wins games, Defense wins championships."

Here's a wee bit of exaggeration to consider the above.
When two good defenses perform their best the result is a o to o tie.
When two good offenses perform their best the result is 122-88, 102-100 or 84-80.

Strive to score young men...make your strong arm your offense, and your companion arm your defense. Sir Avry-Botie Dubetter, Duke of Wellington's General at Arms
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Yes, what a wonderful plan.Just try to outscore your opponent don't try to play any defense.
With all do respect "all great and powerful Oz." What a crock of $$$$.

That kind of talk sounds like socialism to me.... lets just all try to do the same things make everyone so there is no incentive to try to be the best you can....

Talking like this is one of the main reasons we get scores like 122-88 and being from strawn I think it was a joke... I'm proud of those kids and what they accomplished and embarrased for one simple reason they gave up more points in one game than any team in the history of six man football championships...

Maybe if they would have worried more about stopping the other team from scoring and less about trying to pad their own stats...

Playing football without playing defense is like so many other travesties in this world people half-heartedly doing everything taking pride in nothing... EXCEPT SCORING APPARENTLY....

WHAT A JOKE...

Defense is the stronger form with a negative objective... Offense is the weaker form with a positive objective. - Ernest Hemingway.

Only the strong survive

It's important for us, if we're going to be a good team, to be a good defensive team.

Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
Joe Paterno
 
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