Why not make Six-man D-1 an 11-man division? Having a six-man team with 25+ kids on the sideline defeats the purpose of why the six-man division was created. Westbrook is doing a great job, but they had more padded up for the state game than the 2A- D1 schools. D-1 six-man should be 11-man, but then you'd probably get mowed down by Mart, Albany... Which is why there are divisions. Many Schools in D1 have 3 times as many kids as the D2 schools. Just trying to make it competitive. Don't forget the D1 game was 45pt rule also.
State championship future
- Thread starter jamwash
- Start date
justlookin'
Six-man fan
All this back and forth about what could/should be done about the divisions is moot. The divisional split is not up for debate. If a school wishes to play 11- man football there is already a vehicle to accommodate that. I'm not even sure that the site for the state games will change, just that a contract is set to expire. It could be easily renewed. In any case all the arguing and postulating is pointless to pursue on this board. The Coaches Association will make this decision and most likely without conferring with us keyboard warriors. I'm positive that the divisions will stay as they are and that whatever the coaches decide on the future site will be for the best interest of all concerned, especially their players. That is how it should be.
Jones26
Six-man pro
So what you're saying is the 6-man number needs to be dropped to 60? That's the division cutoff right now, and you think all D1 schools need to be 11man. What would the top end number of 2A need to be in your opinion? Right now it's 165 (Class 2A, Division 2). So a school with 160 kids could be playing a school with 60 kids? Ouch!
That's the point I'm trying to make. I responded to the guy that says there should only be 1 six-man division, which would put schools like Benjamin, Loraine, RS... who are running 35-45 kids against schools that have 100 kids. The difference is about 60 kids. So D2 school playing a D1 school is equivalent to D1 six-man playing 2A-D2 11-man school (100 kids vs 160 kids). It's not very fair... Unless you go out and buy a team, but that topic is on another thread.
justlookin'
Six-man fan
All valid points which is why there are divisions in the first place. It was never up for debate. I simply noted that I wasn't a fan of the split in a previous post and somehow that's been misconstrued into a divisional split elimination was being considered. It is not, it won't be. Every classification has two divisions and 1A is no different and will not be any different. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused, if in fact I caused any. That was not intended. The only topic of note in this thread should be as the heading states and it's pure speculation on that point also. The coaches will be the deciders on that, period. we can only guess what will be decided. My best guess is that all the games stay put as is.
Jones26
Six-man pro
Gotcha, I misunderstood where you were headed. I don't think the top end schools should be forced to play 11-man though. You used Westbrook as an example, and while they have a lot of players, they aren't close to being the biggest D1 school, they are just extremely boy heavy and those boys like to play football. I like the system as is, I just wish some of those small school 11man teams would bite the bullet and play sixman.
It's hard for them to let it go. It's like when a six-man is forced to move up to an 11-man. Nobody likes it.
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
Like Grandfalls, who won the 2013 D2 championship? Who's common opponents were with Follett, Crowell, and Water Valley. Didn't they have the lowest enrollment in the state if I'm not mistaken?? Cant tell me they wouldnt have competed for the outright (no divisions) title or won the whole thing. Same with Strawn last year. Same with RS with Big Rig, also RS 2016 with Tippie and other teams. Sick of people saying D2 schools are inferior to D1. Change it back to 8 team districts (if possible) and make the playoffs worth it. Being able to make the playoffs being 1-9 in a 3 team district is the definition of a participation trophy. I get it, UIL wants more money, all about the money. They will create 7A, and watch them start taking 3 teams per district in 6man D1 and D2 because it will make them more money. But.... more kids get to play in the playoffs!!! Screw that, that's given, not earned.
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
I wouldve rather watched Benjamin vs Westbrook in the west playoffs than both of those state championship games. These mercy rule championships and playoffs in general are not good. The best need to play the best. Not sorry if my opinion hurts anyone's "feelings".
How many of the “OTHER DIVISIONAL GAMES WERE BLOWOUTS”. You check the enrollments of the losing school? I didn’t but bet there is a descrepency! You want to ruin Div 1A then do away with splits. The small schools “with very few exceptions“ (unless as you say buy or hire) will continue to play. You are ruining the traditional values of schools building traditions (a life lesson for many) penalize those tradition schools so you don’t see 45 games? 30 kids on a sideline is the culmination of years of hard work for a school. Those schools who realignment sent them to Div 2 A check and see how competitive they were.I’ve seen some years where 1-9 2-8 big division schools made playoffs. Reward or luck? The UIL MADE THE DIVISIONS #1 for competitive reasons #2 to insure all schools who chose to play could play #3 to embody a fair and level as possible playing field #4 the money generated by Div 1A is minuscule in comparison to other divisions. So discussions about the”SPLIT” are borderline ignorance of the game of athletics. I’m sure everyone has their favorite team and always want them winners. But lots more lessons are learned from athletics than just winning.
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
Because 6man (1A) was in so much danger of being extinct prior to the split? I dont think so. Youre so full of it, to the brim!! It was actually more competitive in the playoffs and easier to schedule in the regular season. I know I'm not wrong about that. But... I guess going by your logic, everyone needs a ribbon now. Let's take everyone to the playoffs!!! Also you're going by numbers of schools based on the cutoff number. How many D2 schools can manipulate their enrollment by having small classes and large classes.
1. Wrong, the splits and added playoff teams were for the UIL to make more money. Not for competitive reasons
2.Wrong, theres plenty of basketball schools that could play football. 6man and 11man
3. Wrong, some districts happen to be stronger than other districts. A lot of D2 schools could and have been able to compete with or beat D1 schools.
4. Right, thanks to robinhood.
#1 Just how much “money do you think the UIL makes on a 1A play off game. It’s evident you’ve never seen the final tally sheets on any level playoff game.
#2 Lots of schools have picked and chosen which sports they want to participate in for years and there are lots of schools with six man numbers that could play but the culture in their community isn’t aligned there and it doesn’t affect any 6 man schools the split is to try and equalize the number of players. P.S. Manulipte the numbers? administrators can cost their districts state money by manipulating numbers. The only thing they can control is transfers
#3 stronger districts yes that’s a given and but that can change year to year Move in coach hires etc. Some D1 and D2 schools have occasional exceptional athletic kids and in 6 man those one or two can mean lots of 45 games I’ve seen schools with 7-8 players beat teams with 15-20
#4 what does robinhood have to do with UIL ATHELITICS. Revenue from athletics is local monies not tax base
I’m not trying to be disrespectful by any means but an uninformed opinion is just that uninformed
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
Look, I know and understand that the division split will never go away. I'm just stating my frustrations with it and my concerns about the future of football in general. I may have misunderstood what you were saying and I do agree with some things you've said. I'll answer
1. I doubt the UIL profits from 6man football, you're right.
2. I agree, but some schools do manipulate numbers to "stay under" the D1 cutoff. I can name multiple but I wont. And it is for an advantage in athletics.
3. Correct, no argument here
4. Robinhood takes arguably the most from 1A schools which in turn would affect revenue towards an athletic budget. A lot of 6man towns have sued the UIL for years over robinhood because it's a base for of socialism/communism. Steal from the rich, give to the poor. Most of the money goes to large inner city schools. I'd rather see the 6man towns help other 6man towns for robinhood. I can tell you some stories prior to robinhood being instated and yes it does affect school revenue, including athletics.
In response the UIL does get a minuscule amount from playoffs prior to state games. Once numbers are turned in in October schools have 3 ways to determine their classification. It’s not manipulating the numbers as each student you don’t count cost the district state money in more than one way. Nothing to do with athletics although I would imagine there are districts that do that have fund balances that don’t need funds.
There are larger schools in oil districts and wind farm and solar systems (coast and west texas) who are affected by Robinhood monies that are only tax based. It’s the states way of not having to foot the whole bill for education as it’s mandated in our texas constitution they do rob the rich guy to try and equalize the money per district and it’s distributed to district that can be designated by the robbed district. Robinhood affects fewer districts than in the past. Districts have innovative ways to change Robinhood monies.
Thanks for your understanding on the split and I’ll say equity in education and athletics is not equitable. Money can’t buy either one. It’s dedicated staff teaching dedication and hard work that makes it equitable
There are larger schools in oil districts and wind farm and solar systems (coast and west texas) who are affected by Robinhood monies that are only tax based. It’s the states way of not having to foot the whole bill for education as it’s mandated in our texas constitution they do rob the rich guy to try and equalize the money per district and it’s distributed to district that can be designated by the robbed district. Robinhood affects fewer districts than in the past. Districts have innovative ways to change Robinhood monies.
Thanks for your understanding on the split and I’ll say equity in education and athletics is not equitable. Money can’t buy either one. It’s dedicated staff teaching dedication and hard work that makes it equitable
Jones26
Six-man pro
The different formulas to tabulate enrollment are no more. They take 9-12 to decide divisions. That’s it. The only schools allowed to use an alternate formula are the schools that are above 105 and want to stay sixman, UIL allows them to use one of the other three formulas.
Jones26
Six-man pro
This is interesting. Honestly, you could look at the current alignments and pair up the D1 districts with their D2 counterparts (district 1 with district 1, etc). It’s all conjecture, but which two teams would make the playoffs? I don’t see the UIL taking three to the playoffs. It won’t bring in that much money since the district champ will have a bye and won’t have a playoff game anyway. They would have to take four to add another game (and round), but there aren’t enough schools to even consider that right now (in my opinion). And no, UIL doesn’t make much money from Class 1A. They get 16% of the gate….and we have had several playoff games these past few years where we didn’t charge at the gate (and other schools have done the same), so the UIL didn’t get anything from those.
Roach
Six-man pro
Hypothetically speaking our district would’ve just added the D2 teams around us. It most likely should’ve been (going off this season W/L
1. Balmorhea
2. BV
3A/3B. Sanderson/VH
5. Fort Davis
6. Sierra Blanca
7. Marfa
8. Dell City
So I’m a way we did play an 8 team district just with this split, but this is how I see it turning out this past year.
1. Balmorhea
2. BV
3A/3B. Sanderson/VH
5. Fort Davis
6. Sierra Blanca
7. Marfa
8. Dell City
So I’m a way we did play an 8 team district just with this split, but this is how I see it turning out this past year.
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
Thank you for your input. District 1 in D1/D2 is great example. I agree that the UIL would not take 3, most likely 4 granted the 8 team district hypothetical. The cutoff number for D1/D2 pretty much raises every time realignment happens. 104.5 may jump to 114.5 eventually... who knows. My question to you is would you rather have 16, 8 team districts with 4 going to the playoffs, where the best will eventually meet up with the best? Or have a D1/D2 division with multiple 3 and 4 team districts, teams having 1-2 wins making the playoffs and getting slaughtered in 1st round?
Stargirl13
Six-man fan
Another great example, you forgot Grandfalls though, which would've put that district at 9 teams. Still good with that. Traveling costs out in that region is rough enough, this is how the district should look if I had it my way.
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