DOWNBOX
Six-man pro
Does an Offensive players feet have to move for it to be called illegal motion?
Upper body moving forward before ball snapped?
Upper body moving forward before ball snapped?
Motion
- Thread starter DOWNBOX
- Start date
Dale Miller
Six-man fan
I know what you saw.....
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Was the player in question a back (i.e., not breaking the plane of the center's butt? If not, he is a lineman, and if a linemen moves, it is a false start, which kills the play.) If he was a back, 7-1-4-b-1 says that 'One back may be in motion, but that back may not be moving toward their opponent’s goal line.'
Basically, under no circumstances can personnel in motion be moving towards the LOS at snap – this is an illegal motion foul – live ball foul (i.e., play is not blown dead).
The rule doesn't address feet specifically, only that they cannot be moving toward the LOS. As you described this, assuming he was a back, I believe it was called correctly. If he was a lineman. it should be FST, which kills the play.
Basically, under no circumstances can personnel in motion be moving towards the LOS at snap – this is an illegal motion foul – live ball foul (i.e., play is not blown dead).
The rule doesn't address feet specifically, only that they cannot be moving toward the LOS. As you described this, assuming he was a back, I believe it was called correctly. If he was a lineman. it should be FST, which kills the play.
Tom Duncan
Six-man fan
Coach Brent Goleman at Bastrop Tribe has his Q (QB) in motion on every snap for one step lateral to the LOS in order to receive a lead snap.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Is he moving forward at the snap? Foul.
Is he moving sideways, backways, anyways except forward? Not a foul.
Is he moving sideways, backways, anyways except forward? Not a foul.
DOWNBOX
Six-man pro
Center mostly, sometimes both backs when offensive in T formation.
CoachTJones
11-man fan
False Start on the Center usually has to do with the ball moving but not being snapped. If both backs were in motion at the same time that would be Illegal Motion. If they were in motion toward the line of scrimmage at the snap, it would be also be Illegal Motion. Illegal Motion will never be the call on the center.
CoachTJones
11-man fan
Does the QB motion rule apply in SixMan?
Rule 7-4-2-Item 3, it is legal for a quarterback who is under center to go in motion, but he must come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped.
Tom Duncan
Six-man fan
Is that a National Federation of High Schools Rule you are asking about?
It is not in the NCAA Rules used by the UIL in Texas. Below is the the man in motion rule
From Rule 7 Section 1 Article 4 b. Man in Motion. 1. One back may be in motion, but that back may not be moving toward their opponent’s goal line. 2. The player who goes in motion may not start from the line of scrimmage unless they first become a back and come to a complete stop. 3. A player in motion at the snap must have satisfied the one-second rule—i.e., that player may not start their motion before any shift has ended (Rule 2-22-1-c).
NCAA Football Rules
CoachSanders@ACS
Six-man pro
I put this wrinkle in vs. a district opponent last season. The opposing coach was in the ear of the SJ who threw a flag on us 3 consecutive times. After discussing and explaining to them the correct rules, with glassy eyes, this particular crew decided as a whole that the calls against our QB must remain, and the QB is not allowed to motion out from behind the center into the backfield. With the shortage of ref's and the quality of the crew from not knowing all the 6 man rules, I just threw out the entire package. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The game is hard enough, much less having "unsubstantiated" negative yardage penalties against my team to have to deal with.
Tom Duncan
Six-man fan
What was their decision based on in the NCAA rules? Did you report it and have a discussion with the Chapter that sent them to you?
Coach Goleman previously at Bastrop Tribe has always had the QB in motion from an offset shotgun position.
CoachSanders@ACS
Six-man pro
Yes, I did report it. The crew never cited any actual NCAA rule. They honestly didn't know and made a judgment call. Unfortunately, we were at the bad end of that call.
I actually stole the package, which was a triple option concept, from some vintage video I found on this site. I can't remember which team it was.
Tom Duncan
Six-man fan
When I used the motion this past year, I always discussed how we do it during the pre-game conference with the crew just to make sure they understand the rule interpretation. Coach Goleman talks about it happening in a game in his presentation at a clinic a few years ago. He called the timeout immediately after the first flag and asked them if he motioned him from a flanker position would it have been a penalty and they said no. He then said something like, well my QB is not in that good a shape and lines up a bit closer.
coachsatcher
Six-man fan
This rule is in play "at the time of the snap". As far as I understood the rule, anyone, and everyone, can be in motion, in any direction, front or back, as long as they become set before the snap. However, one player can be in motion at the time of the snap, if everyone else is set, but they must not be headed into the direction of the LOS, until after the snap.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
That's an NFL, not NCAA rule. Tom's rule reference is correct
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Close - only backs may be in motion, linemen cannot. A lineman may become a back by establishing himself as a back, then going in motion (7-1-4-b-1). A lineman becomes a back before the snap when they move to a position as a back and stop/pause. (rule 2-27-4-d-3).
So if you have a lineman go in motion, 1) he has to establish himself as a back, by being behind the plane of the center's butt, 2) not be moving forward at the snap, and 3) if anyone else is in motion, both have to be set before the snap, or it is an illegal shift (7-1-2-a). If it's a back going in motion, only 2 and 3 apply.
Vincent J. Davis
Six-man fan
Coach Goleman runs O’Brien wing the correct way.. hard to stop.. Q and W is key to it.. we ran it in 2009, that’s how we won state at Duncanville Christway .. wish more teams ran O’Brien wing more! Some schools try to run it but have no clue what they are doing, Coach Goleman has PERFECTED IT. if I ever get a program I will run it as I know every aspect of the formation. Wish we would have ran it at Lutheran, we had the backs to do it .
