Can we finally admit....

LBK6manFan

New member
One _pac2018":ys92rbql said:
That would be cool to d1 champ vs d2champ . Then no one could complain and that way they don’t have to just make 1 division. They can take the top team from both divisions and have a title game

Already happened in basketball, it was called the Texas cup and the 2 state champions of 1A played after they had won those championships. They changed it because it was unfair for the kids to lose after winning a state championship in an exhibition game.
 

Texlonghorn75

Active member
videojoe":151cn392 said:
I understand that the cut-off numbers have risen which widens the gap of "fairness". However, since the division split, "classic games" rarely happen. Look at the last decade of D2 State Title games...most of them are shut-outs or pretty close to it. This is sub-par football.
The cut off number has risen but not significantly. From 99.5 to 104.5 over a few years? Getting teenage boys in the smaller schools to want to play football is probably a larger problem than a change of five students in head count. As far a the blow outs in the championship games what can you say? Blow outs happen in eleven man too but there were some nail biters as well.
 

Roach

Active member
Yes I will agree that McLean was the “true” state champion. With one division do they play Milford or Strawn in the finals? Who makes it out of the east? How far does Follett go in the West? We will never know...
 

oldfolks

Active member
Who are we trying to change this for. All us armchair quarterbacks need to realize that high school sports is about the 14 - 18 year old students in the schools. It is just as important to the four six-man schools to play at Jerry World as it is the four 6-A schools that play. About the second round of the playoffs the competition picks up in most of the games and there will always be a school that is way better than the rest. We always stand the chance of injuries slowing down a team. I watch all 12 Championship games every year and all classes can have runaways. All classes have weak districts. Our six-man school athletes play their hearts out and I can remember, in 11-man, getting beat and wishing there was a mercy rule but I held my head high and showed up for the next practice to try it again. I will drive 100+ miles to watch a good six-man game when there is an 11-man just down the street from my house. This 11-man school is in the top ten in its class lots of years including this one. The present system is not perfect but we don’t need to back up. This is my opinion and we all have one like other things we have one of. Let our student athletes have fun.
 

Texlonghorn75

Active member
Good point Old Folks, Let the students athletes have fun and hopefully play six man football. I think the challenge is to get more students motivated to play in the smaller (D2) traditionally non winning schools. I think the football culture is cooling down in Texas and we need to reverse that if possible. I noticed on Paint Creek ISD website they had posted a picture of their Junior High team which consisted of nine players. If they have another boy or three who wanted to play football that would make a big difference when it comes to playing a game when injuries occur. Hopefully Paint Creek, Guthrie and other numbers challenged schools can field varsity teams in the near future.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
oldfolks":2t7iogt9 said:
Who are we trying to change this for. All us armchair quarterbacks need to realize that high school sports is about the 14 - 18 year old students in the schools. It is just as important to the four six-man schools to play at Jerry World as it is the four 6-A schools that play. About the second round of the playoffs the competition picks up in most of the games and there will always be a school that is way better than the rest. We always stand the chance of injuries slowing down a team. I watch all 12 Championship games every year and all classes can have runaways. All classes have weak districts. Our six-man school athletes play their hearts out and I can remember, in 11-man, getting beat and wishing there was a mercy rule but I held my head high and showed up for the next practice to try it again. I will drive 100+ miles to watch a good six-man game when there is an 11-man just down the street from my house. This 11-man school is in the top ten in its class lots of years including this one. The present system is not perfect but we don’t need to back up. This is my opinion and we all have one like other things we have one of. Let our student athletes have fun.

I agree that the the student-athletes should have fun but they should earn it. 6man football is my first choice to watch, maybe because that's all I played. Do you not agree that earning a district championship outright would mean more to the smaller schools if they won their 8 team district as Patton Springs (Mason Pierce) was just short of in '03? Barely lost to Valley for the district championship, then lost to Follett in bye district... I'm just saying, the split has caused a stigma that the smaller schools believe they cant compete with D1 schools and that's not right. Why not call it 6Man A and 6Man B?? It still surprises me that there are people who don't believe a "D2" school would/could beat or compete with the D1's.
* If it's about showing up, competing to the best of your teams abilities, then why cater to a division split (in 6man). You're not given an easy path for life so why just hand it it to them in football instead of earning it? A 1-9 team that makes it to the playoffs is crap imo.

Also heard that D2 has a problem with schools finding out or making a way to stay in D2. Is that fair? I've also heard from multiple D2 coaches who are in favor of one division.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
Texlonghorn75":38ilrxij said:
videojoe":38ilrxij said:
I understand that the cut-off numbers have risen which widens the gap of "fairness". However, since the division split, "classic games" rarely happen. Look at the last decade of D2 State Title games...most of them are shut-outs or pretty close to it. This is sub-par football.
The cut off number has risen but not significantly. From 99.5 to 104.5 over a few years? Getting teenage boys in the smaller schools to want to play football is probably a larger problem than a change of five students in head count. As far a the blow outs in the championship games what can you say? Blow outs happen in eleven man too but there were some nail biters as well.

Yes blowouts happen but wouldnt you want the best of the best playing each other. Just look at the results from the playoffs D1/D2 since the split and look at the previous 12-13 years before the split.

*I would like to do a revised unified division for the districts just to see who would be where and in what district. That'll take some time though
 

Texlonghorn75

Active member
LBK6manFan":2gyl8d66 said:
Texlonghorn75":2gyl8d66 said:
videojoe":2gyl8d66 said:
I understand that the cut-off numbers have risen which widens the gap of "fairness". However, since the division split, "classic games" rarely happen. Look at the last decade of D2 State Title games...most of them are shut-outs or pretty close to it. This is sub-par football.
The cut off number has risen but not significantly. From 99.5 to 104.5 over a few years? Getting teenage boys in the smaller schools to want to play football is probably a larger problem than a change of five students in head count. As far a the blow outs in the championship games what can you say? Blow outs happen in eleven man too but there were some nail biters as well.

Yes blowouts happen but wouldnt you want the best of the best playing each other. Just look at the results from the playoffs D1/D2 since the split and look at the previous 12-13 years before the split.

*I would like to do a revised unified division for the districts just to see who would be where and in what district. That'll take some time though
You had the best playing the best last year at Jerry's World. It just happened to be in two games not one. Strawn beat everyone in the state except state champ McLean and Garden City both D1 schools. It's not a flaw in the system that Strawn was so dominant in D2 and Follett played poorly. McLean and Milford had a pretty entertaining game, Ta"ron didn't look as dynamic in the final as he did earlier in the year. I think he was worn down from being the Man the previous two years. You are right, lots of blow outs at State. I don't see where combining back to one division will change the number of blow outs at the state final.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
Texlonghorn75":l294cpz0 said:
LBK6manFan":l294cpz0 said:
Texlonghorn75":l294cpz0 said:
videojoe":l294cpz0 said:
I understand that the cut-off numbers have risen which widens the gap of "fairness". However, since the division split, "classic games" rarely happen. Look at the last decade of D2 State Title games...most of them are shut-outs or pretty close to it. This is sub-par football.
The cut off number has risen but not significantly. From 99.5 to 104.5 over a few years? Getting teenage boys in the smaller schools to want to play football is probably a larger problem than a change of five students in head count. As far a the blow outs in the championship games what can you say? Blow outs happen in eleven man too but there were some nail biters as well.

Yes blowouts happen but wouldnt you want the best of the best playing each other. Just look at the results from the playoffs D1/D2 since the split and look at the previous 12-13 years before the split.

*I would like to do a revised unified division for the districts just to see who would be where and in what district. That'll take some time though
You had the best playing the best last year at Jerry's World. It just happened to be in two games not one. Strawn beat everyone in the state except state champ McLean and Garden City both D1 schools. It's not a flaw in the system that Strawn was so dominant in D2 and Follett played poorly. McLean and Milford had a pretty entertaining game, Ta"ron didn't look as dynamic in the final as he did earlier in the year. I think he was worn down from being the Man the previous two years. You are right, lots of blow outs at State. I don't see where combining back to one division will change the number of blow outs at the state final.

It's to minimize blowouts in the playoffs. You can have a team that outclasses every team in the state and 45s them all and wins it but that's rarely the case up until recently. I also feel like some coaches "slow it down" and dont 45 their opponent when they could have in the state games. I consider that classy.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
Didnt D2 Strawn beat D1 Milford last year? D2 winners beat D1 runner-up. That changes everything about last years playoff scenario. Who knows, Milford may have still pulled off a rematch against Strawn.That is the unknown I'm talking about regarding the playoffs(McLean wins either way last year though)
 

coachj25

New member
This is starting to get silly. The 1A number was raised because it was a concession made so six man could have its own division at the state track meet. Uil like the split so much that they have forced it on the other divisions. What is really funny is I can remember sitting in the general meeting at coaching school and people wanted to know if they could petition to play up in D1. Now I see some of those same coaches who are happy to be in little owe D2. I also remember a school who made the playoffs at 3-7 and went 3 rounds deep. Teams hit there stride at different times. Records do not indicate the strength of schedule. This split is a good thing. Teams still earn their spots. Kids are playing there guts outs. There are still gonna be blow outs. Your gonna get that team or face that team of 12-14 that have playing together since 6th grade and now they are seniors. Your gonna get those kids that are bigger than everybody else or faster or both.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
videojoe":1lu6pr0e said:
6-man football seemed to have been doing okay for a half-century before the split. But, let's agree to disagree and move on.

Videojoe I'm on your side!!! But, to each their own.. I understand that the game will most likely stay 2 divisions, I was just implying that it has been a failure in my opinion. I still feel like most people would push for a unified division instead of 2 regarding 6man. It's not like Katy, Southlake, etc... would play Canadian, or a 2A (formerly called 1A) in a state championship or at all. 6 man is different and for good reasons. That's why the cutoff number is where it's at. If it jumps than I'll take the grain of salt, but 99.5/8 team districts felt right, especially as a player. 104.5 is not that big of difference. Dont fix what's not broken and I feel the UIL did that by creating 2 divisions.
 

Johnny South

Active member
LBK6manFan":2nclvr5k said:
I still feel like most people would push for a unified division instead of 2 regarding 6man.

I believe that you are way off on that statement. You with all of your umpteen posts here is about all the support you have.
With the high enrollment cut-off numbers, the current system is the only way to go. Whether the tiny schools have a chance or not, they believe that they do with our current system in place.
 

LBK6manFan

New member
Johnny South":1p81lxtd said:
LBK6manFan":1p81lxtd said:
I still feel like most people would push for a unified division instead of 2 regarding 6man.

I believe that you are way off on that statement. You with all of your umpteen posts here is about all the support you have.
With the high enrollment cut-off numbers, the current system is the only way to go. Whether the tiny schools have a chance or not, they believe that they do with our current system in place.

I dont agree, it worked with 99.5. I dont know why you're so adamant on this division split being so "great" for the kids. What year did you play? I'm very curious to know. I know I've posted a lot in this thread, mainly because I wanted to here civil arguments/opinions regarding the original post. No one has changed my mine yet Mr. South
 

FCSA football

Active member
Black-Gold":q1s147vp said:
FOLLOW THE MONEY

The more playoff games and championships played = more money sent UIL's way. It's not about travel, competition, or equity. Its about the money.

$$$$$$$$$
That’s what it is really all about.
Following the logic and reasoning by some on this thread then TU or M&A should be able to play heads up with the Dallas Cowboys, uh, maybe that was a bad example, they should be able to play head up with the New Orleans Saints!
After 50 years of coaching baseball and football I really can’t see how some of you say numbers don’t matter.
That is a Ludicrous position. Give me 30-40 or more kids to pick 6 from and hold the rest in reserve to run your
8 into the ground. I don’t care how good you are by the middle of the third, beginning of the 4th those kids are gassed. 2 or 3 platoons, alternating a no huddle Rabbit offense will leave those 6-8 kids gassed and puking on the field. My opinion and observation is that those who think numbers Don’t make a Difference are just blowing smoke because they have always had the numbers.
I mean why do the Pros have a draft, why does little league have a draft, why does the UIL have to continually rule on “transfers for athletic purposes”. Give it up guys, you are only fooling yourselves.
Only One District Champion of each district of only One Division going to the playoffs! Ain’t gonna happen, the old days are gone and $$$$$$$$ is king and the deciding factor in ALL SPORTS today. That’s a fact Jack and it will never go back!
My opinion, for what it’s worth.......
 

LBK6manFan

New member
Because Grandfalls could've/shouldve won a title outright in 2013. How many championships does Richland Springs have if not for the division split? Motley County? Northside?
No offense, I understand your opinion but I just proved you wrong. Grandfalls (lowest enrollment in the state) won a state championship in 2013. I think they win it if theres no division split that year. I'd take that team over your 30 player team anyday, every week, all year
 

LBK6manFan

New member
FCSA football":35qay0h3 said:
Black-Gold":35qay0h3 said:
FOLLOW THE MONEY

The more playoff games and championships played = more money sent UIL's way. It's not about travel, competition, or equity. Its about the money.

$$$$$$$$$
That’s what it is really all about.
Following the logic and reasoning by some on this thread then TU or M&A should be able to play heads up with the Dallas Cowboys, uh, maybe that was a bad example, they should be able to play head up with the New Orleans Saints!
After 50 years of coaching baseball and football I really can’t see how some of you say numbers don’t matter.
That is a Ludicrous position. Give me 30-40 or more kids to pick 6 from and hold the rest in reserve to run your
8 into the ground. I don’t care how good you are by the middle of the third, beginning of the 4th those kids are gassed. 2 or 3 platoons, alternating a no huddle Rabbit offense will leave those 6-8 kids gassed and puking on the field. My opinion and observation is that those who think numbers Don’t make a Difference are just blowing smoke because they have always had the numbers.
I mean why do the Pros have a draft, why does little league have a draft, why does the UIL have to continually rule on “transfers for athletic purposes”. Give it up guys, you are only fooling yourselves.
Only One District Champion of each district of only One Division going to the playoffs! Ain’t gonna happen, the old days are gone and $$$$$$$$ is king and the deciding factor in ALL SPORTS today. That’s a fact Jack and it will never go back!
My opinion, for what it’s worth.......

I proposed 8 team districts with one division. I even proposed taking 3 teams (each district) to the playoffs even though we only had DChamp & DRunnerup when I played. I still cringe when I have to say 3 teams would make it to the playoffs but that's the only route I could think of people would accept. I don't think it shouldve ever changed in the first place.
 
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