11-man refs?

[coachsatcher]

We had two situations this weekend that made me scratch my head.

1. Offense was in a spread formation, with two receivers to the right of the center - both standing. They had the QB in shotgun and two backs. Our defensive end jumps, which simultaneously, the receiver jumped with him. The official first called encroachment and then settled on off-sides on the defense. The official explained the defender entered the "neutral zone".

I still don't comprehend how there's a "neutral zone" with no linemen. Also, how did the defender jumping inside this imaginary box that only exists with 5 linemen, provoke an outside receiver to jump? The ball never snapped. I tried to explain to him the contradiction, but he just laughed it off.

2. Pass into the end zone and a defender runs through the receiver. Obvious interference by all in attendance. No objections from either side line. Flag flies from the sideline official who was less than 10 yards away. The back judge, who was over twenty yards away from the play comes in and says it was clean. They waive off the flag, because, by their explanation, it was the guy who was over 20 yards a ways call.

I'm constantly reminded of a four team crew. They seldom watch a defined area, as they all watch the ball. I'm good either way. Either they call their zone, or go by the mentality "if you see it - call it!" However, I have grown tired of watching the middle of the field neglected by officials watching the action. If all four officials are watching the ball, who's watching the rest of the field? I understand it's impossible to see everything, but if we're not even going to try; don't over rule another official, because they made a call in your "zone".

Off soap box.

 

[cowman52]

In the first, if the receiver was "threatened" by a defensive player head up or 1 hole either side, it is the defense that caused the foul. If man was was not head up he can only " threaten" a man either side of him. I'm reading this as the defender was fairly close to the ball and the receiver was split somewhat wide. If so, the defense can get back before the ball is snapped, and the receiver moving should have been a false start.

The second is a younger "wing" getting bullied by an older or more experienced back judge. If the back judge can see contact through the back of a player, he must be truly a phenomenal official and needs to work by himself since he is that all seeing.

 

[fencewire]

1. Where were the receivers in relationship to the defender who entered the neutral zone while they were on the line?

You have three linemen, even in 11 man the WR on the end of the line is by definition a lineman. The NZ is defined by the ball...

SECTION 17. The Neutral Zone
ARTICLE 1. a. The neutral zone is the space between the two lines of scrimmage extended to the sidelines and is the length of the ball.
b. The neutral zone is established when the ball is ready for play and is resting on the ground with its long axis at right angles to the scrimmage line and parallel to the sidelines.
c. The neutral zone exists until there is a change of team possession, until a scrimmage kick crosses the neutral zone or until the ball is declared dead.

If the lineman that moved was 'threatened' by the defender in the NZ, then it is correct to penalize the defense. Say you are running a tight formation with C G T. If the defensive player was outside the T, only the T could move, if G moved it would be false start. If defense was in the gap between C and G, then they'd be protected, but if T moved then it would be a FST. If the defender in the NZ was heads up on the G then all three would be protected and if any of them moved it would be DOF.


2. Hopefully they are not all watching the ball, the ball can't foul anyone. I will say that there are many times when someone that is further away will have a better look at it than someone closer due to field of vision, however, that being said. That one would be on both officials, if B talked someone off a correct call because he missed it, then if we were grading, they would both be incorrect. The other official would be incorrect as well for allowing himself to be taken off his call.

 

[coachsatcher]

The receiver was split out, probably 10-15 yards from the DE. He was never given the opportunity to get back on sides, because as soon as the receiver jumped, they blew the play dead. I have no issues if the defense lined up in the NZ or is across it on the snap, but if the ball hasn't been snapped and there is no one being influenced, he shouldn't be flagged. The receiver jumped because of the extended snap count; pretty much at the same.

 

[fencewire]

they were correct in stopping the play, but if the WR moved based on the DE who was 10 yards away, then it should have been a false start.