Zebra question

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Just a rules question for everyone.
On an extra point attempt...
Kick is good.
There is a "running into the kicker" (5yds) called.
The white hat said:
the penalty could be accepted and we could kick again (mind you we had already made it)
Or
We could decline and kickoff
His explanation was you do not assess 5yd penalties on to the kickoff. Therefore we could not keep the points and the penalty.
I'm fairly certain that isn't right.
Thoughts?

 

[Legacy Zebra]

That's correct. Only personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct can carryover.

 

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Okay,
I'm aware that you didn't write the rule, but curious because I cannot think of any other rule that makes you take points off the board,when the penalty occurs after the scoring play.

 

[Legacy Zebra]

That's how it is for touchdown or extra point. Only 15 yarders can carry over. On touchdowns, the 5s and 10s are declined by rule. On extra points, the offense has a choice. And on field goals, nothing carries over. You either take the successful field goal or take the penalty, not both. And running into the kicker is not after the scoring play. It is a live ball foul that occurs during the play.

 

[coachsatcher]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but I also have an extra point question. If a team blocks an extra point, and the ball goes straight up in the air, does the kicking team really have the opportunity to catch the ball in the air and score? I have had games where they blow the whistle the moment the kicker kicks the ball, but I have also had the officials allow the kicking team to return this blocked kick for points. The defense is obviously not allowed to return the block for points, but the offense having this opportunity was news to me. So my question is: who is wrong? Should they all be blowing the ball dead after the kick or not?

 

[shreaky]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but I also have an extra point question. If a team blocks an extra point, and the ball goes straight up in the air, does the kicking team really have the opportunity to catch the ball in the air and score? I have had games where they blow the whistle the moment the kicker kicks the ball, but I have also had the officials allow the kicking team to return this blocked kick for points. The defense is obviously not allowed to return the block for points, but the offense having this opportunity was news to me. So my question is: who is wrong? Should they all be blowing the ball dead after the kick or not?

This is copied and pasted from the UIL 6-man rules variations:

(4-1-3) 5. During a try after touchdown the ball becomes dead when Team B gains possession or it is
obvious that a kick is unsuccessful.


My interpretation, for what it's worth, is that the play is blown dead as soon as toe touches ball.

 

[FCSA football]

Ok, here is one from this season. On the extra point try the holder bobbles the snap and with both knees on the ground is touched by two defenders. The holder jumps up and throws a complete pass into the end zone.
Ruling, since the holder was only touched and not tackled, the extra point is Good.

 

[cowman52]

It was once that as soon as the ball was kicked, a whistle was blown. Then someone started thinking how can a ball blown dead be a score, so whistle is not blown until the ball crosses through the uprights and stays through or the kick is blocked. A kick that is blown back through the up rights is not considered a successful kick.

 

[shreaky]

It was once that as soon as the ball was kicked, a whistle was blown. Then someone started thinking how can a ball blown dead be a score, so whistle is not blown until the ball crosses through the uprights and stays through or the kick is blocked. A kick that is blown back through the up rights is not considered a successful kick.

That is how most officials do it. But call a 1A game with Larry Boyer, who is the TASO 6-man rules guru, and you'll hear his whistle as soon as the ball is kicked.

 

[Blue Bird]

A few years back I watched a game that had an inadvertant whistle on a field goal because of a knee-jerk reaction to the foot hitting the ball. The kick was blocked, but, because of the whistle neither team had an opportunity to advance the ball. As per rule with an inadvertant whistle the play was replayed. It was a fourth and goal from about the seven. The team that attempted the kick lined up in spread and threw the ball for a TD. There was less than a minute left in the game at this point and the team that attempted the field goal won the game because of the inadvertant whistle!

 

[freeagent]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but I also have an extra point question. If a team blocks an extra point, and the ball goes straight up in the air, does the kicking team really have the opportunity to catch the ball in the air and score? I have had games where they blow the whistle the moment the kicker kicks the ball, but I have also had the officials allow the kicking team to return this blocked kick for points. The defense is obviously not allowed to return the block for points, but the offense having this opportunity was news to me. So my question is: who is wrong? Should they all be blowing the ball dead after the kick or not?

This is copied and pasted from the UIL 6-man rules variations:

(4-1-3) 5. During a try after touchdown the ball becomes dead when Team B gains possession or it is
obvious that a kick is unsuccessful.


My interpretation, for what it's worth, is that the play is blown dead as soon as toe touches ball.

This is one of the few real "differences" in six man vs 11 man rules; in 11 man, you can return a missed extra point. Too many folks think there are more rules differences than there really are ... I had a ref many years ago tell me that the touchback was at the 10 or 15 since the field was shorter.

 

[cowman52]

I've seen this twice, pat kicked through uprights, gets blown back through and once caught at the 4 and advanced in for 2 points. 11 man. Six man ball lands on the 5, picked up and ran in for 1. A kick is not a kick unless it touches ground ( or a tree for example). If you blow the whistle at the toe touch, you may one day really regret that action

 

[shreaky]

I've seen this twice, pat kicked through uprights, gets blown back through and once caught at the 4 and advanced in for 2 points. 11 man. Six man ball lands on the 5, picked up and ran in for 1. A kick is not a kick unless it touches ground ( or a tree for example). If you blow the whistle at the toe touch, you may one day really regret that action

The wording in the sixman variations implies that the play is blown dead once it is obvious that the kick is unsuccessful. The kick in your example was unsuccessful. By rule, for the PAT, the play should be blown dead.

I'm not trying to start an argument - because as long as you don't have Larry Boyer as your white hat - I think most officials choose to be a little slower on the whistle. It would be nice if they could clarify this particular 6-man variation, because it leaves too much open to interpretation.

Just for the sake of discussion, If you blow the play dead as soon as toe touches ball, and the defense roughs or even runs into the kicker, and the kick is no good, do you retry the down? Can you retry a dead ball foul, which is technically when the penalty occurred because of the toe-touches-ball whistle?

I don't think you can find clarification on any of the PAT scenarios listed in this thread.