Waco Parkview bails on TAPPS D2

[cowboy91]

Lifegate and coach Harris,

Not going to lie, don't know a lot about the innerworkings of TAPPS or TCAF. I am learning and doing some research on my own so I can have a more informed and intelligent response to issues on this board. For example, I have always heard TAPPS just shoves the little guys into a corner and gates them up and tells them to play amongst each other and we will check on you every once in a while. But again that was what I heard, didn't know the validity of what I heard until some of this came out. I also keep hearing that TCAF is working hard to expand its league and is also going to be making a push to expand down I-35 and get into central and south Texas. Again all heresay. But I have and will continue to do more research on both leagues. Thanks again and please understand there are no hard feelings towards anyone on here. Thats what this forum is for.

 

[freeagent]

Lifegate and coach Harris,

Not going to lie, don't know a lot about the innerworkings of TAPPS or TCAF. I am learning and doing some research on my own so I can have a more informed and intelligent response to issues on this board. For example, I have always heard TAPPS just shoves the little guys into a corner and gates them up and tells them to play amongst each other and we will check on you every once in a while. But again that was what I heard, didn't know the validity of what I heard until some of this came out. I also keep hearing that TCAF is working hard to expand its league and is also going to be making a push to expand down I-35 and get into central and south Texas. Again all heresay. But I have and will continue to do more research on both leagues. Thanks again and please understand there are no hard feelings towards anyone on here. Thats what this forum is for.

Thanks for the comments. I've heard that TCAF wants to grow, but it hasn't happened in the past several years. There are a lot of solid, loyal TAPPS schools in San Antonio, Houston and Austin and it may be a tough market to break. They are going to have to get a number of schools to make the jump at once and I doubt that is going to happen.

TCAF had the strength of their junior high league to make the jump to a high school league and that's not something they would have in the Austin, Houston or San Antonio markets.

You'll also have to remember T-CAL is stronger in the San Antonio and Houston markets, and many of the smaller schools have been part of T-CAL in the past and don't have fond memories of those days. It's gonna be a tough sell. Very tough. Good luck.

 

[cowboy91]

Lifegate and coach Harris,

Not going to lie, don't know a lot about the innerworkings of TAPPS or TCAF. I am learning and doing some research on my own so I can have a more informed and intelligent response to issues on this board. For example, I have always heard TAPPS just shoves the little guys into a corner and gates them up and tells them to play amongst each other and we will check on you every once in a while. But again that was what I heard, didn't know the validity of what I heard until some of this came out. I also keep hearing that TCAF is working hard to expand its league and is also going to be making a push to expand down I-35 and get into central and south Texas. Again all heresay. But I have and will continue to do more research on both leagues. Thanks again and please understand there are no hard feelings towards anyone on here. Thats what this forum is for.

Thanks for the comments. I've heard that TCAF wants to grow, but it hasn't happened in the past several years. There are a lot of solid, loyal TAPPS schools in San Antonio, Houston and Austin and it may be a tough market to break. They are going to have to get a number of schools to make the jump at once and I doubt that is going to happen.

TCAF had the strength of their junior high league to make the jump to a high school league and that's not something they would have in the Austin, Houston or San Antonio markets.

You'll also have to remember T-CAL is stronger in the San Antonio and Houston markets, and many of the smaller schools have been part of T-CAL in the past and don't have fond memories of those days. It's gonna be a tough sell. Very tough. Good luck.

Luckily and fortunately I don't have to make that sell.

 

[cowboy91]

john,

Let me propose this question. how is what we did any different than what the two schools who went 11-man this year??

 

[freeagent]

john,

Let me propose this question. how is what we did any different than what the two schools who went 11-man this year??

Fair question. And my answer might just be the same ... the time to make the change is at realignment time. That's when I would do it. I might be telling my current students, opponents, and others that I was going to make the change a year ahead.

It's common for schools to start a junior high or junior varsity 11 man program prior to going varsity. The case study has to be Austin Regents.

 

[coachbill]

I have a great idea...let's all join together and have one league. Let's have a "Home School" division, a "Charter School" division and a "Private School" division. If your team is mixed with PS and HS students, you play in the home school division. I know my idea is not very popular and has been criticized by many. But I see very little benefit in multiple leagues. TCAL will continue to grow...that's for sure. TCAL is now at 32 six man teams when 4 years ago we had 6 teams. As long as we grow for the right reasons...we will see the fruit of our labor. This is not a competition to see who can be the largest or grow the fastest. This is about giving everyone a chance to compete in hopefully a Christian based organization.

I wish the best for my friends in TCAF and TAPPS. It just seems (my opinion only) to be a shame that TCAF and TCAL can't join forces to reach more schools in the name of Christ.

For Jesus' Sake! 2 Cor 4:5
Billy Helm

 

[jc_30]

As a personal opinion I believe that TAPPS is best suited for the simple fact that there is competition from education, music, art, drama, sports, etc..

I do believe also though that TAPPS should do a better job trying to accommodate the smaller schools that play 6man, not just the major schools in the major cities.

 

[coachbill]

Just for the record...TCAL has a great Fine Art and Academic Competition that is getting bigger and better every year.

Years ago, I was an AD at a TAPPS school and attended the TAPPS A&A Composition in Austin. I was also an art teacher whom with my students, had a great experience at the competition.

That next basketball season, we had no choice but to use home school students and we also had a senior who played varsity as an 8th grader which also excluded the senior from playing...had we stayed. The rest is history! However, I did meet some great people who helped me get our six man program started. Thanks John!

I don't want to go back and forth about who is better. Blessings to all leagues who play OUR great sport, six man football. If anyone ever wants to sit down and talk about what we could accomplish together, I'm always available to fellowship with an open mind and tackle any challenges that some would say will never work. Until then, let's support each other with prayer and encouragement. That's something God will bless!

Have a great week!
Billy Helm

 

[freeagent]

I have a great idea...let's all join together and have one league. Let's have a "Home School" division, a "Charter School" division and a "Private School" division. If your team is mixed with PS and HS students, you play in the home school division. I know my idea is not very popular and has been criticized by many. But I see very little benefit in multiple leagues. TCAL will continue to grow...that's for sure. TCAL is now at 32 six man teams when 4 years ago we had 6 teams. As long as we grow for the right reasons...we will see the fruit of our labor. This is not a competition to see who can be the largest or grow the fastest. This is about giving everyone a chance to compete in hopefully a Christian based organization.

I wish the best for my friends in TCAF and TAPPS. It just seems (my opinion only) to be a shame that TCAF and TCAL can't join forces to reach more schools in the name of Christ.

For Jesus' Sake! 2 Cor 4:5
Billy Helm

Several years ago (it may have been a year or two before TCAF began its high school division), TAPPS held an amendement vote concerning home school participation. It was the last in a series of such elections to eliminate home school athletic participation and this time, the amendment allowed home school participation but schools allowing home school participation AND home school groups who would then be eligible for membership would have to compete in a separate "Home School Division" for district and state honors

This amendment did get the necessary 2/3rds vote (previous attempts fell just short), and there is actually a provision for such a division in the TAPPS bylaws. However, it essentially ended any home school participation in TAPPS events. Charter schools are all eligible to join UIL under its bylaws; only a few have chosen to do so. I don't see any interest from TAPPS in amending their bylaws to accept tax supported schools (beyond the three that are grandfathered under TAPPS rules, two being prison schools and the other being the Austin Texas School for the Deaf).

While it would be good to have one league, I don't see it happening anytime soon. Each of the three leagues have their strengths ... and weaknesses. A topic for another day, because my head is hurting again, Brother Billy.

 

[allseeing]

Lifegatesports -I agree, teams should not leave in off years. It makes it hard on schedules. But I am just wondering why you came down so hard on Waco for leaving TAPPS in an off year and you did not come down on Cedar Park Summit for leaving. (see your post under Div I).

 

[freeagent]

Lifegatesports -I agree, teams should not leave in off years. It makes it hard on schedules. But I am just wondering why you came down so hard on Waco for leaving TAPPS in an off year and you did not come down on Cedar Park Summit for leaving. (see your post under Div I).

Perhaps I should have. But I understand both they and Temple Central Texas Christian (which did the same thing as Summit) did notify all their district schools AND the TAPPS office before making the move. If I was either of those schools, I would have waited a year, but they (like Parkview) made their own decision to do what they did.

 

[Eagles303]

where did Temple CTCS go?

 

[freeagent]

where did Temple CTCS go?

They will be playing 11 man next year, as an independent team (remaining as a TAPPS member school). From what I was told, they realized they would be playing 11 man in 2012 and since they did not anticipate having any seniors playing football next fall, they would make the move a year earlier.

Cedar Park Summit and Schertz John Paul II (which played six-man as an independent last year, their first year in football) will play 11 man in TAPPS Dist 4/Div 4 along with Beaumont Legacy, Galveston O'Connor, Huntsville Alpha Omega and The Woodlands Christian. As I understand it, the teams in Dist 3 were unable to add both teams to their 2011 schedule but the Houston area teams in Dist 4 were willing to do so and deal with the travel.

While I don't like the idea of making the 6 to 11 man switch in off-years, it has been done before ... McKinney Christian did it several years back. And, let's face it, there are a number of times we benefit when an 11-man team realizes they don't have the numbers to compete and moves back to 6 man before the season begins. Lake Jackson Brazosport Christian did it this year, as did Chester HS (UIL). Anton HS (UIL) is expected to do it this year.

 

[FalconCoach]

The real shame in all of this is we are losing a really good program in TAPPS. My school is personally losing it's rival school, though I'm sure we'll find a way to get back on the schedule after next season. I'll be honest, the same opportunity posed itself to our school, and we declined because of our commitment to TAPPS for the 2 years of alignment. Losing 6 seniors will make it hard to have a deep roster next year, and the temptation to move to a league that allows homeschoolers, as well as 8th graders, to play was lucrative. In the end, we saw the move as a short term fix, and creating a long term problem by bailing on TAPPS. That, and I really like going to bed at night knowing I've fulfilled what I said I was going to.

That being said, I don't blame Parkview for leaving. I don't agree with them, but I understand from a management perspective why they would. Our basketball district this year was REDICULOUS for travel expenses and time out of the classroom. Brownwood to Heath- 370 miles roundtrip, Granbury to Heath- 188 miles roundtrip, Denton to Heath- 120 miles roundtrip, Heath to Waco- 240 miles roundtrip, Waxahachie to Heath- 102 miles roundtrip, McKinney to Heath- 92 miles roundtrip, Irving to Heath- 84 miles roundtrip, Dallas to Heath- 40 miles roundtrip...total travel 1240 miles, total travel time 21 hours, total time missed from class to get to games- 14 hours.

I understand that the AEC has a hard time with districts, especially at the 1A level. But, we have to have a commitment going forward for travel in my opinion. Students can not afford to miss that much time out of class.

 

[jc_30]

Just for the record Anton fought it as hard as they could for some reason. But after not being able to finish two seasons in a row forced them to choose 6man rather than not play, but it's great to have another team.

And as for traveling that is what happens when you come to smaller schools. In UIL Sierra Blanca plays Sanderson and Garden City and Rankin over the past years (for district) and each one of those is easily over 550 miles round trip. And in High School (you can ask my good buddy Coach Helton at Dallas Covenant) we traveled from El Pas to Granbury, Abilene, Amarillo, Watuaga Harvest, and another Granbury School OAK trail and that was all for district competition.

 

[freeagent]

I understand that the AEC has a hard time with districts, especially at the 1A level. But, we have to have a commitment going forward for travel in my opinion. Students can not afford to miss that much time out of class.

Coach, I agree. But the problem in DFW is kinda self-inflicted. Some schools have made the choice to go to TCAF for reasons you've described ... perceptions that competition is easier, eligibility issues are "easier," travel is "easier," and that means that the schools like yours who have chosen to remain in TAPPS are left holding the short end of the stick. Thanks for sticking with TAPPS.

In my just around 10 years of being involved in TAPPS athletics management (although no longer actively as an AD), I've seen a lot of trees (and their electronic equivalents) get chopped down to add new rules to cover all sorts of loopholes found by wise folks trying to get a competitive advantage. At some time, there are going to be folks in TCAF that are gonna try the same things. And they'll start clear cutting forests to revise rules as well.

One complaint I have with the loss of so many 1A/2A schools to TCAF is that now for most sports, 1A District 4 ends up being in San Antonio/Austin. And that means our district champion has to play regionals in North Dallas (Plano), instead of San Antonio, Austin or Houston (where district 5, 6, 7, & 8 champions compete), all of which are much, much closer. So we too are paying the price of schools chosing to move to another league. And last time I checked, that price went up about a buck a gallon in the last year.

 

[coachbill]

With all do respect to TCAF! Here's some irony for those who support home school participation. There is a TCAF school that has home school students (as several do) that because of the low number allowed, a group from that team will start a new home school team and join TCAL. So, in essence...I guess we are working together!

I wish TCAF the best! It's obvious that TCAL or TAPPS is not for everyone.

Blessings!
Billy Helm

 

[freeagent]

Just for the record Anton fought it as hard as they could for some reason. But after not being able to finish two seasons in a row forced them to choose 6man rather than not play, but it's great to have another team.

As has been discussed on another thread on the main sixman board, I can see towns like Chester and Anton (and others which will also happen; I've heard Nazareth is even thinking about sixman, which would have been considered herasy in recent years) straining to remain 11 man. When the small town grocery store and other businesses close because of dropping population, it's hard to admit that the town is losing population and has to make this move.

And although Texas has been growing, that growth certainly is not occuring in small towns on the east and west sides of the state. I'm sure that population experts will tell you that the population growth in Texas is basically inside a triangle drawn from San Antonio to Houston to Dallas/Fort Worth, with a few outliers along the Mexican border (Laredo, El Paso, Rio Grande Valley).