TAPPS wildcard Format.... SERIOUSLY a joke

[cozmo cramer]

I hate to say I TOLD YOU SO (TAPPS)....... BUT..... A few coaches who were arguing this (make everyone happy format) in Jan/Feb may be CORRECT...

This playoff system is going to BLOW.... and blow bad.....

Let's look at this scenario:

Plainview Christian Schedule:
+ 5 for beating Lubbock Harmony..... Harmony has NEVER won a game.. REPEAT NEVER HAS WON A GAME, only scored 10 total touchdowns in 2 years
+ 4 for beating Lazbuddie..... Lazbuddie won 1 game in 4 years, had the NATIONS longest losing streak.
+ 4 for beating Patton Springs.... Patton Springs hasn't had a VARSITY team in 4 years

The teams in the SOUTH can't compete against this type of scheduling......

Now lets look at my good ole friend Living Stones:
Lost to Apple Springs.... undefeated
Lost to High Island.... New 6man but decent according to scores
Lost to Waco Live Oak.... Nuff said there
Will lose to Granbury NCTA.... Very talented

I know for a fact that LSCS has played a MUCH TOUGHER schedule than Plainview (any of the wildcards listed below as well), but it looks like LSCS may miss the WILDCARD...

Heck, I think LSCS should travel to west texas and play a few of the bad teams so they can get some points.....

WF ND
EP Jesus Chapel
Lubbock Kingdom Prep
Granbury NCTA
LIfegate
Freddy
Heath Fulton
SA Town East
Orange Comm.
Longview Trinity

WILD CARDS
Brazosport Christian
Plainview Christian
San Marcos Hill
SA Castle HIlls
WF Christian
McKinney Christian

 

[insurance]

Terrible idea, just terrible....

 

[Kramer]

Just wondering what TAPPS has always stood for.
I guess it means

To
All
(we are a)
People
Pleasing
Service


So really, teams that finish 3 or 4 are fighting for a wildcard spot.

I think Plainview Christian found a loop-hole in the system and scheduled correctly (BAD OPPONENTS)....

 

[Kramer]

Why doesn't TAPPS just tell everyone,

YOU MUST FINISH IN THE TOP 2 IN EACH DISTRICT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.....
END OF DISCUSSION........

Isn't this how UIL does it and it's worked for MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS

 

[freeagent]

Got comments on this, but I have a stinkin' JH study hall to cover in a few minutes (which ranks slightly BEHIND having root canal without anesthesia in my favorite things to do...)

Will comment maybe tomorrow.

 

[Godsmightywarrior]

Why doesn't TAPPS just tell everyone,

YOU MUST FINISH IN THE TOP 2 IN EACH DISTRICT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.....
END OF DISCUSSION........

Isn't this how UIL does it and it's worked for MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS

I don't think that this would fix the problem either. Some districts are stronger than others and some districts are weaker than others. For instance, if District 1 is weaker than District 2, why should a District 2 3rd place team be punished simply for playing in a tougher district? Or vice versa. I'm a Wichita Christian Stars fan and we are in District 2. So, for instance, our schedule this season is Patton Springs, Gold-Burg, Killeen Memorial, Dallas Tyler Street, Saint Jo, Lubbock CTK, Heath Fulton, Brownwood VLA, NCTA (Happy Hill), and WF Notre Dame. That's four teams in the DII top ten... and three of those four are in District 2. If the Stars finished in 3rd place in the district, but played tougher opponents, I believe that they should go to the playoffs over a team that finished higher in their district and had a better record, but played weaker opponents. Obviously, no matter what the format, some teams/coaches/fans will be happy and others will be sad.

 

[cozmo cramer]

mightywarrior....
U R WRONG by saying some districts are TOUGHER than others....

Every year in UIL, there are TOUGH districts and weak districts....

EXAMPLE, look at Div. I District 2 in sixman... Petersburg, Valley, Paducah, Spur are all good, but only 2 makes the playoffs.


There is TRULY no CORRECT/RIGHT WAY.... but the best way is to put the top 2 teams in the playoffs.
Instead of having two 7 teams in a district, separate them.....


This is why todays youth is so spoiled rotten, because NO ONE HAS TO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND ASSERT THEMSELVES IN LIFE ANYMORE.
Everything is given to them and when they don't get their way, WE CRY, TAKE OUR BALL AND GO HOME (to another league)...

Everyone says, there is no RIGHT WAY...
YES THERE IS.... Make 7 districts, take two teams to the playoffs from each district, that's 14 teams....

TELL THE TEAMS THAT FINISH 3RD OR WORSE TO GO START BASKETBALL...... HMMMM, I BELIEVE THE UIL DOES THIS FORMAT AND IT'S WORKED SINCE TEDDY ROOSEVELT WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.....

 

[pup]

All this ...... AND

Bigger districts like 4 & 5 are at a serious disadvantage to gain points because they have fewer opportunities to play non-district games. Districts 1 & 3 have an unfair advantage.

Gone are the days of coaches using non-district to sharpen his team to make a playoff run. Now the coach needs to schedule UIL patsies to earn points so he can position his team for a hopeful playoff run. I understand that if a team wants to make the playoffs they need to win, especially in November. But, Holy Cow, this system is taking away from the kids earning it on the field. Now it's all about WHO you schedule, NOT how you play.

I have a crazy idea. How about TCAL, TCAF and TAPSS agree to play on equal terms, then we have real districts with good numbers and we don't have to rely on a ridiculous point system.

 

[Godsmightywarrior]

Wonder Dog:
I am not wrong by saying that some districts are tougher and some districts are weaker. In fact, you stated the same thing in your second sentence regarding UIL.
Furthermore, we can't compare TAPPS to UIL. UIL teams have many more comparable schools which are much closer in distance with which to compete. Most TAPPS schools have to travel much farther to get comparable opponents. TAPPS schools don't have the budget to travel long distances all season for games, so the only alternative is to schedule much tougher or much weaker opponents in the local region. If a team in district 1 schedules "patsies" for non-district games and finishes first in their district and a team in district 2 schedules tougher teams and finishes third in their district, why should the district 2 team be punished for playing a tougher schedule? You'll end up with a district 1 team most likely getting blown out in their first playoff game, whereas the district 2 team might have played a closer game.

My point was that taking the top 2 in each district across the board does not ensure that the most qualified teams are in the playoffs. It's the format they use because it's the easiest to manage. If a point system was to be used fairly, it would have to account for the strength of schedule and scores of the games. With the top 2 format, you could easily have top 10 ranked teams miss the playoffs because they are in a more competitive district.

I'm not meaning to offend any District 1 players, coaches, or fans. I'm just using the numbers 1 and 2 as an example.

 

[Godsmightywarrior]

Personally, I'd like to see teams from each district come together to play at the start of each season. When I played Minnesota 9 man football, the 4 teams from the north of the county would play against the 4 teams from the south of the county in our conference. It was called the conference jamboree. Each northern team would play one quarter against one southern team. With the TAPPS teams, it would be nice to see a whole game for each team though. It wouldn't settle who should go to playoffs, but it would give a good indication of the strength of each team. I realize that financially, it probably wouldn't happen though.

 

[freeagent]

Okay, here's my take.

I really don't like non-district games to have any bearing on playoff status, but the powers-that-be have determined it does.

And really, with one exception, it probably works okay. And that exception is six-man football.

If you're playing 11-man, you can find UIL schools (higher point value) that you can beat for playoff points (at least until they figure out that they are fodder for private school playoff position, when they may decide it's time to play someone who doesn't have a 10-game playoff qualifying schedule). There's always Podunk Pines High somewhere nearby.

But in six-man, especially in South Texas, there's few UIL schools (higher point value). For example, here in Seguin, there's only one six-man school within 100 miles (Prairie Lea). In fact, in 10 years of our football program, we've played only three games against UIL schools (two against Prairie Lea, one in 2003 a forfeit loss on our part, and against Chester a couple years ago when they were starting six-man and we had an open date).

So, unless you go Greyhound and road trip, the opportunities are somewhat limited. Actually, they're better in the Houston area with High Island, Apple Springs and others in east Texas.

When we saw the original proposal last year, several of us had some issues. To be fair to the TAPPS leadership, they listened and made some adjustments to the program.

1. If the district has only three or four teams, the last place team is ineligible for the playoffs. That means you can't be "o-fer" in district and make the playoffs because you found Crippled Childrens Public High and a few others to load up those six or seven non-district games.

2. Wins against JV teams (any level) count for ZERO points.

While it's possible to load up points on weak teams, remember first that you have to WIN those games to get points. The #1 and #2 seeds from districts should be expected to be competitive in non-district play; if you have a team that you think will be #3 or #4 in district, you may be sweating bullets that you can win that non-district game against Dry Gulch Public High, because they probably are as weak as you might be.

Now, to the brackets themselves.

In Division II, District 1 and 2 are each four teams; District 3 is three teams. Those three districts going to send 8 teams to the playoffs (each eliminating their last place team).

District 4 and 5 are each seven teams. Each of those districts will send 8 teams to the playoffs (with the 5th, 6th, and 7th place teams being eliminated).

I think you'll get a bracket that is fairly competitive. TAPPS wants to have 16-team brackets without byes (coaches really don't like first-round byes). There's something to be said for 8-team brackets, which most years (not this one) would put finals on Thanksgiving weekend, but I like December finals.

Sure, 8 teams are eliminated in the first round, but just making the playoffs is a reward for some teams. But a 16 team field means you have more of an opportunity to get those "on the bubble" teams in than an 8 or 10 team field ... which means some good teams ARE definitely getting an only slightly delated start on basketball season.


What kind of suprised me on the brackets was that my understanding was that TAPPS was going to a "north-south" split on tournament brackets and allowing the #1 and #2 teams from the same district to meet in the semi-finals (in the past, that matchup was restricted to the finals). Reason was to reduce travel costs and long mid-week trips in other sports.

That would mean that Districts #1, 2, 3 and their wild cards should meet in the top half of the bracket while Districts #4 and 5 and their wild cards should meet in the bottom half of the bracket (and yes, I realize that if the numbers were different per district there might be some cross-over of wild cards). But the #2 teams are crossing over; for example the winner of D1 #2 and D2 #2 play the winner of D4 champ/wildcard.

(I didn't check other sports to see if they went to the new format.)

There will always be teams on the bubble that should have been in the playoffs ... and somebody with luck that snuck in over someone else. The wise men in BCS and NCAA can't get it "right," either, and I doubt anyone currently treading the soil on God's good green earth actually knows what "right" is anyway.

All I know is that I ran a scenario last year on D1 (which had five districts; D2 only had four) playoffs to see what the point system would have done. Only one change -- Houston Clear Lake Christian (who didn't play their playoff game anyway) would have been out and Round Rock Christian would have been in. 15 of 16 is pretty good in my book, most days.

 

[Tims]

Any idea how they are ranking or placing the wildcards?

 

[freeagent]

Email received from TAPPS Office today -- I bolded the text that might answer Tim's question --

HEAD ADMINISTRATORS, ATHLETIC DIRECTORS and FOOTBALL COACHES:

TAPPS has utilized a wild card points system in Division I 11 man football for several years. As a result of changes in the football divisions this year, the wild card concept will be implemented for all of TAPPS football, 6 man and 11 man.

The basic concept is that wild card points are earned for each victory over varsity teams whether district or non-district. Points are not earned for a loss or for victories over sub-varsity teams. The Executive Board determined that points will be awarded for forfeiture losses.

Schools should use the chart posted on under Section 141 – Wild Card Points Table on the CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS tab at www.tapps.net to determine the wildcard points for each opponent. These points should be entered into the game information on TAPPSter when reporting the score and the team’s wildcard points will be updated when the save button is clicked. The up to date wildcard points are shown on the STANDINGS page at www.tapps.net.

The wild card point system is limited to teams who finish in the top 4 of each district. Additionally, the last place team in any district is not eligible for wild card consideration. Once the points are determined, the teams qualifying with the lowest points totals will be assigned to play district champions with travel being a major consideration in placement.

More information will be forwarded and posted on football newsbriefs regarding the football playoffs as the season progresses.

 

[LazyJ]

It's a shame, but according to the brackets, the top 2 teams in d2 look like they would meet in the 2nd rd...Heath Fulton (presumed district 3 champ) v. WF Notre Dame (presumed district 2 champ). But, there is a lot of football left.

 

[freeagent]

It's a shame, but according to the brackets, the top 2 teams in d2 look like they would meet in the 2nd rd...Heath Fulton (presumed district 3 champ) v. WF Notre Dame (presumed district 2 champ). But, there is a lot of football left.

Lazy ... with 5 districts, there is no way you can avoid a district champ vs district champ match up in the second round (unless one of those district champs loses the first round game).

If TAPPS tried to "seed" the playoffs, the howls about who got seeded where and the travel involved would be going on until judgement day.

In 2009, I'd tell you that the two best teams played in the second round -- 11-0 Brenham Christian and 11-0 Seguin Lifegate. Brenham won 58-41. Except for the fact that Duncanville Christway, in what would be their final football game (school closed that spring), upset Brenham for the title.

Considering that there are more teams playing in D4 and D5 (14) than in D1, D2 and D3 (11), I think it's fair that the district vs district champ matchup be on the northern side of the bracket.