Stats, are they legit?

[Shad Kline]

I have been in several recent discussions on what makes a stat, or set of stats, legitimate.

It is of my opinion (key word, opinion), that stats are legitimate if and when your varsity team plays as a varsity team against another team and there is a decisive outcome. Basically, if it goes on your W/L record for the season, the stats should also count.

Some will disagree with this, and I see their point. A varsity team that plays a JV team will most likely have better stats than if they were to play that teams varsity. At the same time, a varsity team that plays a really weak varsity team will have better stats than if they played a powerhouse. But here are some other scenarios.....
1) A varsity team plays another varsity team that uses an ineligible player (later forfeits because of it). Do those stats count? Effectively, since they used an ineligible player, they were playing a JV team.
2) A varsity team plays an 11 man school JV in a sixman format. How about that one? Does it count?
3) A varsity team plays an exhibition with an 11 man school. Half 6 man, half 11 man.
4) A weak DII varsity plays last years DI state champions JV, and gets 45'd by the JV. Do those stats count?
5) Basketball tournament. 7 varsity (sixman football) teams, and a 2A JV team. Do the teams that end up playing against the JV team get to count their stats in that tournament? If so, what makes it different?
6) A really weak, only been playing football for 2 years, varsity team schedules 4 pre-district games against bigger JV teams in the area, so that they can be competitive and also to reduce travel. They actually win 2 of those JV games. Do any of those stats count?

But what is the general consensus on whether or not a particular game qualifies to be worthy of going towards your season stats. Who makes that determination? The coach?

 

[Leman Saunders]

this has been talked about before...my big problem with it is this...if you are playing a school that has a JV and a Varsity and you play their JV...it is a JV game and stats should not count...why...because ineligible players can play in a JV game but they cant in a varsity game...example a move in that would be forced to sit out of a UIL varsity game...so you can play players that you cant play in a Varsity game...

 

[Leman Saunders]

Playing UP a classification does count...but not UP a division within your own classification...

Example: If Blackwell's basketball team played Abilene High's Sophomore team in a basketball tournament...then those would count

 

[Leman Saunders]

My stance which I am pretty sure is the correct one...but I could be wrong:

1. No - cheated by using an ineligible player
2. Yes - playing Up a classification
3. Yes - same as #2
4. No - that would be considered more or less a JV game as you are playing another schools JV...what division they are has nothing to do with it
5. Yes - same as #2...you are playing up a CLASSIFICATION...not a DIVISION within your own classification
6. Not as varsity stats as JV stats yes, but only if the opponents field more than one team...same as #4...Yes if the opponent only has one football team and is playing a JV schedule...then you can count that game because it is essentially your only team vs their only team and would be seen as a varsity v varsity game.

 

[CT6MFL]

3. Yes - same as #2

What about the 11-man team that played down a classification?

 

[Shad Kline]

My stance which I am pretty sure is the correct one...but I could be wrong:

1. No - cheated by using an ineligible player You cheated, so I can't count my stats?
2. Yes - playing Up a classification So when Strawn, a 6man powerhouse, played Ranger's JV, a town that is only 9 above the cutoff for 6 man anyway, not used to 6 man at all, it was their first 6man game ever, and generally isn't very good at football, their varsity was 3-7 that year. But that counts? REALLY? But a team who plays Ira's JV, (who would have been ranked in the top 50 overall, had they been ranked, based on who they beat) don't get to count theirs?
3. Yes - same as #2 It's not even a real game, hence, exhibition
4. No - that would be considered more or less a JV game as you are playing another schools JV...what division they are has nothing to do with it It should, they still have to prepare, they still play, they still get the yards. Why does playing a JV team, that is better than your varsity not count? Because they have another team (their varsity) who is even better than they are?
5. Yes - same as #2...you are playing up a CLASSIFICATION...not a DIVISION within your own classification So if Aledo, a 5A powerhouse, were to schedule all 6A JV non district opponents next year and set all kinds of records, it would be ok?
6. Not as varsity stats as JV stats yes, but only if the opponents field more than one team...same as #4...Yes if the opponent only has one football team and is playing a JV schedule...then you can count that game because it is essentially your only team vs their only team and would be seen as a varsity v varsity game.Here we go, back around to #1, what if they are only playing as a JV so that ineligible players can play? Or, it is the JV, but the coach put some of the younger varsity players on it so that they could get some more playing time, because varsity doesn't have a game and they had a hole in their schedule anyway. And why do I not get to count my stats just because we are a poor school and couldn't afford to travel further to play a varsity team.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I agree on some, disagree on others, but I'm gonna play devils advocate on all 6. IN RED

 

[CT6MFL]

Is there no governing body for stat collection in Texas? Does the UIL keep records of individual stats? As in a Individual record, All-Time individual list?

If not then its a free-for all.

 

[CT6MFL]

So while tip-toeing through the Google posies this morning, I have come to the conclusion that the UIL does not keep individual records for football. The only thing I can find with the UILs name on it is Team records.

It looks as if individual football stats are all kept 2nd party? i.e. Dave Cambells

Is that correct?

 

[CT6MFL]

Going one step forward, I can’t find anything as far as JV vs. Varsity. I could only find the Statistician manual for how to take stats.

If you look outside the NCAA to the NAIA, which is no governing authority for Texas in anyway. They have a definition of stats for JV vs Varsity, and it basically says No on JV games and yes on Varsity games. What it lacks and this is at the college level is if Junior Varsity and Varsity can even compete against each other in the first place.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209264280

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=207653260