Spreads Week 9

[SlaughterHouse6]

There are ways to keep from scoring 70 - 90 points in the first half. If you have emptied your bench after a secure win, try practicing punting, field goals, fumble on purpose, running out of bounds before scoring or whatever it takes. When I was in high school, right after leather helmets, we were behind 55 - 0 in 3rd quarter. Eleven man and we were bad. The other team started punting and quick kicks and other things to keep from running up the score any more. There are different ways to go and this is my opinion and I have traveled two or three hours to watch games that are over at half and I have no grandkids or any relatives playing that I know of. Just like high school football especially six-man.

I don't know, to me...when a team that is superior starts to intentionally fumble, punt on 3rd downs, etc. that seems almost more demoralizing than just lining up and getting throttled. At least you got beat by them being at their best vs. getting goofed around on with intentional turnovers. I think the rule is solid. Very similar to a TKO in boxing. Almost all boxers would continue to fight even being out on their feet, as would most HS football teams. Sometimes, it's best to call a TKO and live to fight another day.

On a side note, the fake kneel play....wow, just classless. I'd love to know who that was so I could root against them as well.

 

[oldfolks]

I don't know, to me...when a team that is superior starts to intentionally fumble, punt on 3rd downs, etc. that seems almost more demoralizing than just lining up and getting throttled. At least you got beat by them being at their best vs. getting goofed around on with intentional turnovers. I think the rule is solid. Very similar to a TKO in boxing. Almost all boxers would continue to fight even being out on their feet, as would most HS football teams. Sometimes, it's best to call a TKO and live to fight another day.

On a side note, the fake kneel play....wow, just classless. I'd love to know who that was so I could root against them as well.

The fumbles are not suppose to be too obvious. The punts that happened to us were on first down. It is a long game when you are losing but “I” had realized by this point that we were beat by a lot better team and the atmosphere on the field changed from everyone trying to knock the other teams head off. It is hard to explain but we left the field knowing we had played our hardest and no bad feelings about the other team. This was in the days of only going to regional, which this other team won, and most of us Class B teams didn’t have but about 15 guys for an 11 man team. We should have been playing 6 or 8 man. There were a few 8 man teams around.
Looking at scores of all classes, the upper level 11 man teams sometimes need a mercy rule.
I hope the coaching staff etc. have changed at the fake kneel school. I’m not going to say who today.

 

[Bluecat98]

I was at a game where a team was down 96-8 at half. The other team had 11 players. No sense in dragging that out. JV is the way to go in my opinion.

 

[STCH330117]

40-6 Westbrook starting 3rd qtr

 

[Deleted member 21909]

Good subject to discuss. Appears that the 45 point rule actually hurts attendance at six man games. What is the point of showing up at a game that is going to be over at half time if it takes one and half hour drive time to get to the game? May be the 45 point rule needs to be adjusted till the middle or the end of the third quarter so some of second stringers see meaningful playing time before they graduate? That rule isn't written in gold. Eleven man football has never had this rule and they have survived. A little tweaking might of the rule might be beneficial.

I agree 1000%! I have thought about this quiet a bit, and here is my proposal to change the mercy rule once the winning team 45's the losing team:

1. The game is over and the score is recorded as it would be under the current mercy rule.

2. The LOSING COACH (this is to prevent hard feelings) has two choices: A. Get on the bus and go home like you usually would or B. agree to the rules described under #3 (below).

3. If the losing coach agrees to it, the teams play a scrimmage format roughly equal to the 3rd and 4th quarter of the game. Maybe something like 15 to 20 plays for the losing team on offense, 15 to 20 plays for the winning team on offense, 15 to 20 plays for the losing team on offense, 15 to 20 plays for the winning team on offense.

I think there are some major benefits to this rule. Mostly importantly, it would give young guys a chance to play without the pressures of winning the game. I think it is almost impossible to develop younger players in high school without a JV, and this would help in some, if not many, situations because sixman can change so quickly. It might help the winning teams more than the losing teams because they could commit lesser talented players to the game without fear of losing the game. If the losing team only has six players and are worn out after regulation, then they end the game like normal.

Some of the side benefits would be better attendance by fans (I love sixman yet rarely go to games because of the mercy rule) and thus more revenue at home games. I also think there is a small chance this might help with friction amongst coaches. I once saw Coach Jones at Balmorhea handle the mercy rule in the best way I have ever seen a coach handle it: He played his starters when he was one touchdown away from mercy ruling the other team (37 to 44 points ahead) while playing his backups when he was two touchdowns away from mercy ruling the other team (36 to 28 points ahead.) Not sure if Coach Jones always does that, but I was a fan of it. Although the other coach got upset at him, I think the scrimmage format might prevent hard feelings amongst coaches.

 

[SimplyPut]

Check out OBK's thread on 6-man History. This amazing game has been around since the 1930's. The mercy rule is part of this game. Always has been. Young men from generations have went on to be war hero's, business owners, dedicated employees and entrepreneurs, public figures, and above all great family men. Undoubtedly, they have experienced being sent to the locker rooms at half time a loser, a winner, or played an entire game that came down to the last possession and last tick of the clock. Generations of these boys (Past, Current, and Future) all have one thing in common. They are back on that practice field the next Monday. Never quit, discipline, pride, integrity, compassion, work ethic, commitment, the list goes on. All things learned and used for the rest of their days. Some of you people want to change this? CANCEL CULTURE MUCH? One last thing, Westbrook was predicted to be fortyfived last night. Leave this game alone.

 

[Texlonghorn75]

Check out OBK's thread on 6-man History. This amazing game has been around since the 1930's. The mercy rule is part of this game. Always has been. Young men from generations have went on to be war hero's, business owners, dedicated employees and entrepreneurs, public figures, and above all great family men. Undoubtedly, they have experienced being sent to the locker rooms at half time a loser, a winner, or played an entire game that came down to the last possession and last tick of the clock. Generations of these boys (Past, Current, and Future) all have one thing in common. They are back on that practice field the next Monday. Never quit, discipline, pride, integrity, compassion, work ethic, commitment, the list goes on. All things learned and used for the rest of their days. Some of you people want to change this? CANCEL CULTURE MUCH? One last thing, Westbrook was predicted to be fortyfived last night. Leave this game alone.

Kind of an extreme response to this discussion topic. Nothing Cancel culture about changing when the point rule would be enforced. I don't remember all the anti change guys bitching and moaning when the overtime rules where introduced so tied score games and penetrations didn't determined winners of districts and playoff games. The mercy rule is unique and certainly open for being adjusted just like any other rule involving six man football. The six man rules are guidelines. Adjusting the mercy rule to come into play in the third quarter is only common sense. The two teams and their supporting cast of cheerleaders, coaches, parents, band etc are already on the premises. Let them play a little longer. No one tells you to stop smoking your cigarette when it is half smoked do they?? Sixman football used to just play to the regional championship level. Why don't you complain about the current playoff system too if you are so jacked up to keep things as they originally were? The patriotic spiel is really special too. Westbrook being rated to lose by 45 points has no bearing on this discussion. Happy they won. They have had a tough season.

 

[Texlonghorn75]

If you want younger players to get playing time, schedule a JV game. It's not the other's team responsibility to develop the opponent's younger kids. If a team is getting 45'd by the half, then they have more than enough to work on.

I don't know if you'd ever been to an 11 man game that was lopsided since half. Other than the win, it is long, drawn out, and miserable for both sides.

What if the players are varsity players not JV but seldom get to play? If these same players participate in the JV games that week they can't play in the varsity game. Some players get left out! It comes across from you that it is so easy to either plug a player into varsity or JV and I'm sure there are lots of players who never get on the playing field either place. From a fan's and parent's point of view opportunities to play should be inclusive not exculsive. Extending the mercy rule until the end of the third quarter would open more playing time for both teams and hopefully the coaches would be intelligent enough to take advantage of it.

 

[FenceLineGuy]

Just because a team is "picked" to be 45'd does not mean it always happens. Friday nights game between Westbrook and Sterling City is a prime example. SC was "picked" to 45 WB and look what happened, a huge 1st half blowout by WB turned into a thriller of a game in the 2nd half.. Real fans do not pay attention to the "spread", they travel to support their kids, their team and their community, no matter what. In my opinion I would rather road trip to watch a game than stay home any night of the week. I played for Westbrook and now my sons play for Westbrook, Thursday and Friday nights are the best nights of the week this time of year.....

 

[Deleted member 21909]

Many sixman teams do not have enough players to have a JV Team, especially during district.

 

[SimplyPut]

Kind of an extreme response to this discussion topic. Nothing Cancel culture about changing when the point rule would be enforced. I don't remember all the anti change guys bitching and moaning when the overtime rules where introduced so tied score games and penetrations didn't determined winners of districts and playoff games. The mercy rule is unique and certainly open for being adjusted just like any other rule involving six man football. The six man rules are guidelines. Adjusting the mercy rule to come into play in the third quarter is only common sense. The two teams and their supporting cast of cheerleaders, coaches, parents, band etc are already on the premises. Let them play a little longer. No one tells you to stop smoking your cigarette when it is half smoked do they?? Sixman football used to just play to the regional championship level. Why don't you complain about the current playoff system too if you are so jacked up to keep things as they originally were? The patriotic spiel is really special too. Westbrook being rated to lose by 45 points has no bearing on this discussion. Happy they won. They have had a tough season.

Extreme? Ok, if you say so. Smoking also has nothing to do with discussion. Neither does the tie breaking determination, but I get your point. Back to discussion of extending the game after mercy rule reached. I like it the way it is. You don't and that's fine. Good thing neither of us have a vote or say in such things. Makes the disagreement pointless. If they ever change it I promise it won't bother me. The game will still be great. No worries sir. As far as the predicted spread of the SC-Westbrook game. I never bought in to that. Thought it would be a thriller that could go either way actually.

 

[Texlonghorn75]

Extreme? Ok, if you say so. Smoking also has nothing to do with discussion. Neither does the tie breaking determination, but I get your point. Back to discussion of extending the game after mercy rule reached. I like it the way it is. You don't and that's fine. Good thing neither of us have a vote or say in such things. Makes the disagreement pointless. If they ever change it I promise it won't bother me. The game will still be great. No worries sir. As far as the predicted spread of the SC-Westbrook game. I never bought in to that. Thought it would be a thriller that could go either way actually.

Point is that it's about making the six man game better for the players. Not about what I like or you like. The tie breaking determination was mentioned to point out that the rules are changed according to what the coaches and players want. In time I expect the mercy rule to be changed too.

 

[SlaughterHouse6]

What if the players are varsity players not JV but seldom get to play? If these same players participate in the JV games that week they can't play in the varsity game. Some players get left out! It comes across from you that it is so easy to either plug a player into varsity or JV and I'm sure there are lots of players who never get on the playing field either place. From a fan's and parent's point of view opportunities to play should be inclusive not exculsive. Extending the mercy rule until the end of the third quarter would open more playing time for both teams and hopefully the coaches would be intelligent enough to take advantage of it.

Those varsity players wouldn't and shouldn't get left out. I would expect the coach to be able to manage his roster accordingly to the tempo of the game. I don't think 45 points is an instantaneous feat. There is a process, and when the game starts to go in that direction, the coach should have a realistic rubric to start plugging those Varsity players in that may not get as much playing time. You don't have to mass substitute, but trickle the players in so that they are included.

This is just my opinion, and certainly not the Holy Grail. I've seen it done this way, and I'm a proponent of it.

 

[midcities 6-man fan]

That is not as easily done as it may sound

Those varsity players wouldn't and shouldn't get left out. I would expect the coach to be able to manage his roster accordingly to the tempo of the game. I don't think 45 points is an instantaneous feat. There is a process, and when the game starts to go in that direction, the coach should have a realistic rubric to start plugging those Varsity players in that may not get as much playing time. You don't have to mass substitute, but trickle the players in so that they are included.

This is just my opinion, and certainly not the Holy Grail. I've seen it done this way, and I'm a proponent of it.

That is not always as easily done as it sounds. I was at the FWCC and Texoma Christian game on Friday night. FWCC scored TD's on their first 3 plays from scrimmage. It was Senior night so were the seniors to be subbed out after 3 plays?
Of course not, it was 42-0 after 1 quarter. They went to a running clock in the second quarter so it was over in 10 minutes. That made it difficult for the FWCC coaches to get the younger player in the game.

 

[Texlonghorn75]

That is not as easily done as it may sound

That is not always as easily done as it sounds. I was at the FWCC and Texoma Christian game on Friday night. FWCC scored TD's on their first 3 plays from scrimmage. It was Senior night so were the seniors to be subbed out after 3 plays?
Of course not, it was 42-0 after 1 quarter. They went to a running clock in the second quarter so it was over in 10 minutes. That made it difficult for the FWCC coaches to get the younger player in the game.

This is the scenario I'm talking about. There always seems to be an overriding reason to end six man games early. So it was Senior Night. Hopefully all the seniors had a chance to play including a few senior bench warmers. Otherwise slow the tempo down let the subs play some. Let the subs play some defense. So what if the opponent scores and the game actually goes into the third or fourth quarter. It is not like we will remember who won this game five years from now or what the score was. The players will remember whether they got to play some though. The more participants in the game the better it is for the game. That's why those players went out for the team and have endured practice since mid August or earlier. The more schools that play six man football, the better the situation for six man football to thrive. And we could always use a few more schools playing six man football. The level of competition is weak. Seems to be a real hang up on 45ing a team for ego purposes. The mercy rule limits player participation and needs to be amended.

 

[Johnny South]

It wouldn’t bother me one little bit to do away with the mercy rule altogether. Some teams could really “blow up“ the record books! I don’t doubt that some could score 300 points if they tried!
It might eliminate the JV team and JV games for a few schools. If a coach was worried about leaving his starters in when he only has 9-10 players on varsity, he would have to put the JV on varsity for relief duty.
Or, the UIL could make a new rule about tying one hand behind their back after they reach 150 points!
(They could call it the Armistice rule)

 

[The Judge]

the mercy rule will be around forever and you can all thank the 2006 Richland Springs coyotes for beating the eden bulldogs 96-0 at the half..HA! but it would be rather awesome and very rare to see a team losing by 45 at the half to comeback and win. the game of 6man has had a handful of big comeback in the past.

 

[Deleted member 21909]

This is the scenario I'm talking about. There always seems to be an overriding reason to end six man games early. So it was Senior Night. Hopefully all the seniors had a chance to play including a few senior bench warmers. Otherwise slow the tempo down let the subs play some. Let the subs play some defense. So what if the opponent scores and the game actually goes into the third or fourth quarter. It is not like we will remember who won this game five years from now or what the score was. The players will remember whether they got to play some though. The more participants in the game the better it is for the game. That's why those players went out for the team and have endured practice since mid August or earlier. The more schools that play six man football, the better the situation for six man football to thrive. And we could always use a few more schools playing six man football. The level of competition is weak. Seems to be a real hang up on 45ing a team for ego purposes. The mercy rule limits player participation and needs to be amended.

While I like your sentiment, things change in sixman very quickly. Off the top of my head, I believe I am correct that Sanderson was up big on Calvert during the 2002 state game and Woodson was up big (at least more than 20 points) on Motley County during the 2007 D2 state game. Both Calvert and Motley County came back and ultimately won the game.

The reason I like turning the 3rd and 4th quarter into a scrimmage is because the winning coach can totally invest into development because he has won the game. Although I am not 100% how Calvert came back, Coach Jones almost had a ring with Sanderson. If he beats Calvert, he would have an even bigger claim to the title of GOAT sixman coach with state titles at four different schools. While I highly doubt Coach Jones played non-starters against Calvert, my point is it would be a shame to lose because you were trying to play non-starters. Frankly, a coach would probably get fired for that at most places.

 

[Texlonghorn75]

I think most coaches would approve of having a controlled scrimmage for the third quarter after a mercy ruled game during pre district competition. It would allow both teams to practice with seldom used players and may be give some of those second team kickers a chance to show that they are better than the starting kickers. As I stated earlier, if everyone is already in attendance, why not take advantage of the time slot already designated for playing time. No additional time spent riding the bus, etc. No additional expense just a better use of each school's resources. Fans get to see more of their players compete and the concession stands sell more nachos.

 

[SlaughterHouse6]

That is not as easily done as it may sound

That is not always as easily done as it sounds. I was at the FWCC and Texoma Christian game on Friday night. FWCC scored TD's on their first 3 plays from scrimmage. It was Senior night so were the seniors to be subbed out after 3 plays?
Of course not, it was 42-0 after 1 quarter. They went to a running clock in the second quarter so it was over in 10 minutes. That made it difficult for the FWCC coaches to get the younger player in the game.

True. There isn't an exact science. The other coin of the argument would be if the game continued into the 3rd quarter, FWCC would have hung 100. I'm not against making changes, but only if it improves the game, not to just make changes for one's agenda.

On a side note, I'd expect FWCC to be D1 after re-alignment. They have outgrown D3...and D2 by the numbers well over a year ago, hence we could crack open another discussion about yearly re-alignment vs. every two years.