@Legacy Zebra , From what I am hearing the coaches, UIL, and TASO worked together to push this through. It's become a big enough issue for all of them to agree together.
Proposed 2024 Rule Changes
- Thread starter Zebra Watcher
- Start date
Stanaland
Six-man fan
That is what I anticipate, yes.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Without commenting on your opinion that the official had an axe to grind, what I would have done, is ruled it unnecessary roughness. Same penalty, same result. According to the rules, if the play is dead - which in this case it is as soon as he goes out of bounds - there can't be a tackle. Tackles only occur during the live ball portion of the play. So by rule, it cannot be a horse collar tackle... But I can certainly call it UNR.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
I call BS on the coaches caring about this - they sign a card before every game saying that their player are properly equipped. It's 100% on the coaches to meet and that requirement, not officials.
It's not an issue for coaches, they don't care about the rule, or the card they sign. If they DO care, they're likely just trying to stop the officials who actually DO enforce it, from doing so.
I'll say it again - regardless of what TASO, UIL, and coaches come up with, it will not be enforced so long as coaches get to pick officials. Fix THAT problem (LOL) - the real root of the rot - and this wouldn't even be an issue.
@dammitbobby , by implementing penalties for uniform violations, the uniform card now has some merit and they have agreed to try and fix the issue. It depends on if you feel enough integrity to enforce or not knowing it will affect other Zebras down the line.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
You are putting this all on officials, and that's wrong. This is trying to fix a symptom, not the problem. Until coaches are moved from selecting officials - which will likely never happen - they dangle the opportunity for corruption.
Not real sure why you think my integrity should be questioned here. What you are wanting, is simply not going to happen, period. I've got more important things to do on the field than be the uniform police.
Not real sure why you think my integrity should be questioned here. What you are wanting, is simply not going to happen, period. I've got more important things to do on the field than be the uniform police.
I am putting it on us, Zebras, now that there are penalties to hold coaches and players accountable. The uniform card now has teeth to it to be enforced. It's only corruption if you let happen. You can't control what other crews do, but you can at least hold you and your crew to the integrity standard for rule enforcement otherwise, you might as well leave your strips on the field and take up a coaching hat if you feel so angry about coaches having a say. Control what you can control. The coaches do, why can't you?
Jones26
Six-man pro
Coaches get to pick officials?
I've been picking the wrong ones all this time? Why didn't you guys tell me?
What @dammitbobby is saying is coaches picking which crews to use or scratch during the season and for playoff games.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Again - this is a temporary bandaid. It doesn't address the root of the problem. I recall a few years ago TASO executives calling championship games with players wearing daisy duke shorts almost - where was your outrage and criticism for them, and every other time it happens? Just because there's a new 'rule' doesn't mean there wasn't one already in place, that was completely ignored.
'Coaches control what they can control' - that would be leveraging power over officials... and before you say they don't really do that, I had a coach - who participates on this forum, no less - after I made a call that he didn't like, that if I made it again, he would make sure I didn't get any playoff games. I flagged it (correctly) again, and guess what, I had zero playoff assignments that year.
Point is, the 'new' rule doesn't do anything differently than the old one really. And I don't believe coaches have just decided that this is gonna be the year that this is such a huge problem they are going to get uniforms that are too short out of the game, for the good of the game.
(and side note: I still make calls ALL THE TIME that coaches don't like. They don't influence me, I've seen what it can do. So I go about my business. Making sure Johnny's pants aren't too short should never be the responsibility of officials, it's on coaches. So let them deal with it - if they want. I worry about what happens between the stripes and between the whistles.
'Coaches control what they can control' - that would be leveraging power over officials... and before you say they don't really do that, I had a coach - who participates on this forum, no less - after I made a call that he didn't like, that if I made it again, he would make sure I didn't get any playoff games. I flagged it (correctly) again, and guess what, I had zero playoff assignments that year.
Point is, the 'new' rule doesn't do anything differently than the old one really. And I don't believe coaches have just decided that this is gonna be the year that this is such a huge problem they are going to get uniforms that are too short out of the game, for the good of the game.
(and side note: I still make calls ALL THE TIME that coaches don't like. They don't influence me, I've seen what it can do. So I go about my business. Making sure Johnny's pants aren't too short should never be the responsibility of officials, it's on coaches. So let them deal with it - if they want. I worry about what happens between the stripes and between the whistles.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Yes, they can request specific individuals/crews from chapters and scratch those that are assigned to them that they don't want.
I don't of any other sport, at any level, that does this, except Texas football.
Can you imagine the outrage if Nick Saban got to pick his officials and then had a few calls go his way, what people would say...
SixManNewb
Six-man fan
Agreed. It's one or the other, but you can't have no foul on the play.
As for the axe to grind, the week prior the same official called a chop block on a completely legal block that called back a TD. Our coach turned the play in and the official wasn't happy about it. The following week, he expressed his displeasure by calling the most one sided game I've ever witnessed. We were called for 15 penalties. Our opponent was called for one and that was a false start. Every other flag thrown on our opponent was picked up. Early in the game, on 3rd and 15, our opponent gained 14 yards and the side judged marked the ball one yard short of the line to gain. The head official placed the ball beyond the sticks and signaled 1st down. The side judged corrected him and the head official rolled his eyes and reluctantly moved it back. After the next play, he walks over to the side judge and says loud enough for everyone to hear "next time don't question me. If it's close to the first down, I'm going to give it to them." That was the most asinine thing I've ever heard on a football field. Later in the game, the opponent had the ball inside our 15 yard line. Our coaches were at midfield (25 yards behind the LOS) and our head coach was straddling the sideline. As soon as the ball was snapped, the flag came out from the head referee. I guess technically he was within his right to throw the flag, but in 50 years, that was the only time I've ever seen it called in that situation. We still won the game easily, but that was the last time we saw that referee.
@dammitbobby continue with your axe to grind. Maybe you will clear a path to justice for all of us.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Not really an axe to grind. Just want to effect positive change to the sport and avocation that I love.
@dammitbobby . it really sounds like an axe to grind against UIL and coaches. I guess one man's golden trumpet is another man's axe to grind.
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C. LaTransviejo
Six-man fan
I’ve never been able to figure out the big deal about pants length and knee pads rules. If a coach wants to let his players wear track shorts, more power to him. There’s not going to be any threat of fatal injury from that like there would be from a helmet violation. But after losing a player or two to bruising or cracked knee caps, he will more than likely require the correct uniform. Except when the violator is a stud with an influential parent.
Jones26
Six-man pro
I was being sarcastic...but schools can do this in any sport.
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
Football's the only sport I officiate, so I wasn't aware of that... although it makes sense, since it's the UIL charter that gives them the right to 'mutually agree upon officials.'
That said, for other sports, I don't think it's as common, it?
dammitbobby
Six-man fan
From an officiating perspective, the issue is rooted in the fact that it's a rule in the rulebook:
1-4-3. All players must wear the following mandatory equipment:
a. Helmet.
b. Hip pads.
c. Jersey.
d. Knee pads.
e. Mouthpiece.
f. Pants.
g. Shoulder pads.
h. Socks. (shoes not required, go figure)
i. Thigh guards.
1-4-3-d: Knee Pads. Knee pads must be covered by pants. Furthermore, the pants and knee pads must cover the knees. No pads or protective equipment may be worn outside the pants.
Unlike a typical rule, however, there is no penalty associated with not wearing a mandatory piece of equipment; instead, we are to send the player off until it is corrected. By turning us into the uniform police, instead of the coaches, we're in the position of trying to enforce a rule that no one likes, and with today's kneepads being little more than 2" circular discs of thin foam, offer little to no protection to the wearer or the person hitting them (the origin of the rule was not to protect the person wearing them, but to protect heads from being busted open and concussed when leather helmets with very little padding were a thing.) But, because it's a 'safety' rule, it will never be removed from the rulebook - given the focus on safety today, what would the response be if the PROP committee, or even UIL, recommended removing it altogether... especially when a kid blew out his knee and the parents sued everyone in sight.
Pretty much everyone agrees it's a dumb rule with little benefit. Yet, here we are. When the rule is not enforced at the highest levels of TASO, it makes almost all other officials question why, if they're not going to enforce it, why should anyone, potentially at the risk of angering a coach.
I genuinely do understand Zebrawatch's point - it is valid. But the reality is, there are adverse consequences to officials for enforcing it, dumb rule or not, and there absolutely shouldn't be. That is how corruption gets started, and favoritism, and sucking up to coaches to have your crew viewed favorably. It doesn't impact the game, it doesn't give either team an advantage, and there's no real consequences. Thus, my focus is on removing the root of the problem, not just the symptom.
