In our game the other team had a player who was constantly at least a yard past the 30, upfield, when the kicker kicked off. I asked the linesman after the game what he was watching on the kickoffs and he told me the players WHOLE BODY has to be across the line in order for the player to be offsides. I disagreed and we had a discussion, but he was adamant about his position. Is he correct?
Offsides on kickoff
- Thread starter GSB
- Start date
Why would it be different based on whether the kick is deep or onsides? That would seem to be the same as saying we will let the defense line up in the neutral zone if the play ends up being a pass, but we will call it offsides if it's a run. Why would it not always be a pane of glass? I am interested to hear this "philosophy."
Dogface
Six-man fan
Did that one step help him make the tackle constantly?GSB":1hi64m4t said:
Dogface
Six-man fan
Never.
But it's usually the determining factor
on whether someone whines about it or not.
All officials have to pick their battles.
Otherwise HS kid games would take hours longer.
jus sayin'.
But it's usually the determining factor
on whether someone whines about it or not.
All officials have to pick their battles.
Otherwise HS kid games would take hours longer.
jus sayin'.
Don't see the officials as being in a battle. They are to call what they see. This guy saw a player who was a yard past the kicker on the kicks, but believes that there is a rule that the player's entire body has to be across the line to be offsides. I am trying to find out from an official if this is the rule.
Dogface
Six-man fan
So,
If you peruse the rulebook yourself,
and find there is such a rule,
(which I'm sure there is)
then what?
You prolly had it right.
You pointed it out.
The Ref explained his position.
It wasn't a negative factor in your victory.
So,
how about a nice frito pie?
If you peruse the rulebook yourself,
and find there is such a rule,
(which I'm sure there is)
then what?
You prolly had it right.
You pointed it out.
The Ref explained his position.
It wasn't a negative factor in your victory.
So,
how about a nice frito pie?
Dogface
Six-man fan
My pleasure!
I'm speechless... This game is just unbelievable, just unbelievable...spread14":1d61u2jw said:It hurts me to say I agree with you on this. That game is killing me.ryry":1d61u2jw said:Where's the popcorn? This thread is far more interesting than the Texas/BYU game I'm watching!! Thanks Doggy
This is a philosophy that is used from the nfl, NCAA, etc. that being said, a full yard is probably stretching that a bit.
Do you get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit when seen by a police patrol? Or are there different areas where there is more or less leniency given by patrolmen? Do 5 over in a 70 vs 5 over in a school zone. You are speeding in both instance, but I would guess that you would get a ticket every time in one instance and very rarely in the other.
Do you get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit when seen by a police patrol? Or are there different areas where there is more or less leniency given by patrolmen? Do 5 over in a 70 vs 5 over in a school zone. You are speeding in both instance, but I would guess that you would get a ticket every time in one instance and very rarely in the other.
kbjoe1
Six-man fan
If you want to have a rule that will alow the player to be In front of the line then write it that at least one foot of the kick receiving team be on the line at the time the ball is struck by the kicker. Seems an easy fix.fencewire":1xywwacl said:
On the other topic sure looked like BYU wanted it more. Kinda felt sorry for applewhite and having to relive that he was the leader the last time they had something like that happen. If Texas is not mentioned each year in the national race they should feel that they failed they are tops in recruiting year in and out. But there doesn't seem to be team chemistry just individuals. I'm sure they will improve and move forward
Fence wire-a philosophy thus not a rule? Assume your "ticket" analogy clears this up for everyone. So it's a judgement based on man's experience with a slight nod to the rules. GSB - with same ref group could be two yards next year. Doggy - "picking battles" - ref must have been tired or really looking forward to a frito pie.
Of interest, rules state that only two people have an allowance to cross the "free kick line"' the kicker and the holder, if one is used. Although "cross" can be interpretive, a yard or so seems a negligent judgement. Most reasonable judgements would lean to the "plane or pan of glass" theory.
Of interest, rules state that only two people have an allowance to cross the "free kick line"' the kicker and the holder, if one is used. Although "cross" can be interpretive, a yard or so seems a negligent judgement. Most reasonable judgements would lean to the "plane or pan of glass" theory.
There are a lot of things in the game where things aren't called exactly as written in the rule book. Take rule 9-2-5 for example.
Game Administration Interference
ARTICLE 5. While the ball is in play, coaches, substitutes and authorized attendants in the team area may not be between the sideline and coaching line or on the field of play.
That means all coaches, players, etc have to be 2 yards away from the field from the time the ball is snapped until it is whistled dead. 5 yards for the first two fouls, 15 yards for each subsequent infraction.
I guess we could start calling that by the letter each and every down as well.
I am not trying to start an Internet argument about this or that, just answering questions, and giving some insight as to what is taught to new officials and why, take it or leave it, if you don't agree, that is fine, I don't agree with my wife all of the time, but I still respect her opinion.
Game Administration Interference
ARTICLE 5. While the ball is in play, coaches, substitutes and authorized attendants in the team area may not be between the sideline and coaching line or on the field of play.
That means all coaches, players, etc have to be 2 yards away from the field from the time the ball is snapped until it is whistled dead. 5 yards for the first two fouls, 15 yards for each subsequent infraction.
I guess we could start calling that by the letter each and every down as well.
I am not trying to start an Internet argument about this or that, just answering questions, and giving some insight as to what is taught to new officials and why, take it or leave it, if you don't agree, that is fine, I don't agree with my wife all of the time, but I still respect her opinion.
Not really the same. One is on the field rule that affects game, other is housekeeping rule on sideline to help refs. I can understand a lot more how the latter is a more subjectjve call than the former. Interestingly, the refs in our game called sideline interference in our game on our opponent. They told us before the game that they had called it twice in a game they did the week before. As for this thread, I think we have exhausted the discussion. Sounds like there is some subjectivity to offsides on knockoffs, which I understand. However, there also seems to be no "rule" that says the players whole body must be across the line before it is offsides, and actually the rule says otherwise. I did review our film today and the players whole body was across the line and then some, and the kick was an onsides kick to the offsides players side of the field. Our guy went to get ball and knocked it out of bounds so no huge deal.
Agreed, several things,
1. if his whole body was past the line that is offsides, onsides or not period.
2. the officials IMO shouldn't be talking about what they did or didn't do in a previous game as if it was some threat/warning for coaches in the current contest, it isn't relevant.
3. The sideline rule is a safety rule for officials and coaches, not just housekeeping. One coach has died in San Antonio due to complications after being blindsided by an official a couple of years ago on a change of possession when the coach didn't back out of the way in time. The coaches insurance company sued (imagine that) all of the officials that were in that game for not enforcing the rules and claimed that by not doing so that they were negligent in his condition and eventual death. The lawsuit was thrown out, but believe me I don't want to turn to run and hit anyone or have that sort of thing happen to me or anyone else.
We should be trying to work with coaches as much possible without nitpicking every single down as to what is going on, on the sideline.
1. if his whole body was past the line that is offsides, onsides or not period.
2. the officials IMO shouldn't be talking about what they did or didn't do in a previous game as if it was some threat/warning for coaches in the current contest, it isn't relevant.
3. The sideline rule is a safety rule for officials and coaches, not just housekeeping. One coach has died in San Antonio due to complications after being blindsided by an official a couple of years ago on a change of possession when the coach didn't back out of the way in time. The coaches insurance company sued (imagine that) all of the officials that were in that game for not enforcing the rules and claimed that by not doing so that they were negligent in his condition and eventual death. The lawsuit was thrown out, but believe me I don't want to turn to run and hit anyone or have that sort of thing happen to me or anyone else.
We should be trying to work with coaches as much possible without nitpicking every single down as to what is going on, on the sideline.
Dogface
Six-man fan
Good post Juan!Juan Tabo":xth7s6x7 said:
I agree that a yard is too much!!
But ultimately we can't change a refs call!!!
And lastly,
most everything is worth rushing through,
if a big ol' frito pie is waiting for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does the defensive end have to have his whole body past the LOS to be offside? Of course not, the offside on a kickoff is thought of as did the offender being offside affect the play? A 280 tackle that has not been in shape since forever didn't affect the play. A 120 pound sprinter might. Flags on a kickoff usually just slow the game and since the. Offsides is now a 5 yard add on, the thought is still valid.
