NCAA D3 Title -- Take 7.

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Allow me to boast a bit about another Wisconsin football team ... my alma mater, the Warhawks of the University of Wisconsin at Whitewater.

Whitewater (14-0) will take on Mount Union (14-0) in the NCAA D3 Championship next Friday at Salem VA. This is the SEVENTH CONSECUTIVE MEETING of these two teams in the title game; the series is tied at 3 each with Whitewater winning the last two and coming in with a 44 Game Winning Streak. Think the Richland Springs of D3 ...
 
3 titles in 5 years ... Whitewater 13, Mount Union 10.

I'm ticked off at Time Warner, though. My cable went dead during the Warhawks touchdown drive in the 3rd quarter. May have to go to the dish ...
 
I was flipping between this and the Lake Travis-Midway game. As someone who has been to a game at Mount Union (the 98 semifinals with Trinity), I was for Whitewater...

Strange fact...
D3 Final attendance - 3784
Lake Travis-Waco Midway attendance - 32314

BTW, if you like D3 football, go to D3football.com.
 
granger":14ov3c5k said:
I was flipping between this and the Lake Travis-Midway game. As someone who has been to a game at Mount Union (the 98 semifinals with Trinity), I was for Whitewater...

Strange fact...
D3 Final attendance - 3784
Lake Travis-Waco Midway attendance - 32314

BTW, if you like D3 football, go to D3football.com.

I noticed the sparse crowd on tv, too, Granger. Why in NCAA's infinite wisdom do they play the D3 title game in a weather h-e-double-hockey-sticks hole like Salem, Virignia in the middle of December (two years ago, the game had to be delayed several hours due to a blizzard, which stranded many fans from both schools)?

There's gotta be a dome (St. Louis, among many) or a nice southern location (UT Austin?) that's available and maybe draw a better crowd. But then again, 4000 folks is about what TAPPS draws to its title games. A crowd like that would make it easier in those joints for the announcers to introduce the fans to the players to save time.

I guess most of my Warhawk fellow grads don't travel well for ball games ... although I do remember getting a letter a number of years ago when they were going to Abilene to play either Hardin-Simmons or Abilene Christian, they were offering free tickets to UW-W alum in Texas.
 
The problem is the whole thing is bid and Salem seems to be running unopposed. They get blizzards and rain storms and all sorts of bad weather.

The FCS game is in Frisco in January (a long break) with Sam Houston playing the winner of today's game. I was bummed the Griz of Montana lost. I have been a fan of their's wince my summers in the area and falling in love with the place back 20 years ago... but it will be better for attendance with SHSU in there...

Back to the D3 game... problem is most of D3 is located north and east. There are only about 4-5 conferences west of the Mississippi or in the south... I mean there is the SCAC, ASC, SCIAC and the NWC... that covers from Georgia to Texas to California and up the coast to Washington... I think there are something like 20 bids and these conferences get a total of 5...

This limits places that will host south. The other issue is there is only a few days to plan so travel is expensive. I like the new FCS idea of giving it a few weeks...
 
Granger, I'm not sure a southern location wouldn't work. Most folks from the midwest and east wouldn't mind a nice trip south, although the current time is tough (college finals; unlike D1, these kids actually go to school).

Of course, with 3700 fans, I can't think that the D3 finals even come close to breaking even. But probably by the second commercial break during the first NCAA D1 basketball playoff "play=in" game in Dayton, they've covered that loss several times over. They probably cover this one out of "petty cash."

I remember when the Packers used to play in the division with the Tampa Bay Bucs. Planeloads of fans would head down to Tampa to watch the Pack because Green Bay tickets were tough to get. It got to the point there were more Packer fans in the stands than Bucs fans and the Bucs started to require if you bought tickets to the Packers game, you had to buy tickets to another home game as well.

But it's the NCAA. I gave up long ago trying to figure out the mentality of that organizaion ...
 
My father has been a D3 coach for 31 yrs at a small private school up here called McDaniel College, formerly known as Western Maryland College. Played Trinity down in SA a few times in the NCAA playoffs in football in the late 90s-early 2000s. There has been a lot of debate about moving the game. Almost all D3 schools fall in an area from Virginia in the south to the Mississippi, I believe the exact geographical center of D3 is somewhere around Wheeling, West Virginia. There are so few D3 schools in the south that for football the south region goes from Pennsylvania to Georgia over to Texas. The NCAA has to pick up the tab for postseason travel, for trips of over 500 miles they are required to pay for a flight. So the entire postseason at the D3 level usually breaks down to an exercise in money saving by the NCAA, they try to have the shortest trips possible in each round. An example this year was having Trinity and UMHB meet in the 2nd round although if you went strictly by seeding they shouldn't have. Salem is close enough to most of D3 to avoid a flight. It is a terrible location though. It is in the mountains, which makes the weather much worth. Any serious discussions about shifting the game have involved moving closer to geographic center of D3. One of the sites suggested was Canton, Ohio, which would be even worse from a weather standpoint. Only time the Stagg Bowl ever sold out in Salem (stadium capacity: maybe 7,200) was in 2001 when Bridgewater (VA) College, which is about 30 miles from Salem, made the game. Local interest pushed the crowd to about 7,500 to see Mount Union beat Bridgewater 30-27. I would love to see the game some place warm, even if you move to to Norfolk, Virginia, that is far enough south and out of the mountains to avoid the blizzards and most snow. Florida or Texas would be ideal though. As an aside, D3 has a 32 team playoff, so the 2 teams in the championship game end up playing 15 games in a season, more than the D1 max of 14 (12 reg season, conference championship game, bowl). I find it ironic that one of the reasons about keeping the bowls is that kids would miss more class time with a playoff, while the NCAA has no problem with D3 kids missing class time to participate in a playoff, talk about hypocritical.
 
The reason for the low attendance was Whitewater vs. Mount Union, AGAIN!!! Seventh year in a row, I mean, come on......

Any D3 team would love to be in Salem in December. The problem is the seeding in the lower rounds and the NCAA saving pennies with their policy of "as few flights as necessary."

You gotta love D3. These kids play for the love of the game- no scholarships, most stadiums are less than many 4A high school teams in TX, and those guys are students first.
 
pup":24p8ca3u said:
The reason for the low attendance was Whitewater vs. Mount Union, AGAIN!!! Seventh year in a row, I mean, come on......

I'm sure Whitewater wouldn't mind somebody beating Mount Union on the way to the finals ...
 
There has been some discussion as to whether "state" schools should be in D3 at all. From a small, private college perspective, it is like your Lifegate Falcons taking on Throckmorton. Sure, you might win a few, but the enrollment numbers definitely favor the Whitewaters of D3. Not to mention the difference in tuition that limits many potential athletes from playing at a private school. Then there are the differences in facilities. There has also been some discussion on d3football.com about why Whitewater and Mount Union are so far above everyone else in D3. How the Mount does it year after year after year, is just amazing.
 
pup":2i76yukp said:
There has been some discussion as to whether "state" schools should be in D3 at all. From a small, private college perspective, it is like your Lifegate Falcons taking on Throckmorton. Sure, you might win a few, but the enrollment numbers definitely favor the Whitewaters of D3. Not to mention the difference in tuition that limits many potential athletes from playing at a private school. Then there are the differences in facilities. There has also been some discussion on d3football.com about why Whitewater and Mount Union are so far above everyone else in D3. How the Mount does it year after year after year, is just amazing.

I'll agree that Whitewater (which I think has an undergrad enrollment around 9,000; it was at least 5-6,000 when I attended in the mid-70s) is a large D3 school; I'm certain there are full scholarship D1 schools with smaller enrollments. Texas Lutheran, which is here in Seguin and a D3 school has an undergrad enrollment of about 1,200. Its campus is miniscule compared to what I remember of Whitewater in the 1970's -- and I know (from frequent calls and newsletters from the alumni association, usually soliticing a donation) that much has changed since then.

Of the eight or nine schools in the WIAC, I think Whitewater is among the largest but not the biggest (Oshkosh is the largest, Eau Claire and LaCrosse are probably about the same size). By the way, Whitewater is located in the southeast corner of the state -- about 50 miles southwest of Milwaukee, 50 miles southeast of Madison, and maybe 75 miles from Chicago, so it has a pretty solid area to draw from.

When the Wisconsin State University Conference (now known as the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, or WIAC) was formed in 1913, the state legislature didn't want those schools (which at the time were teachers colleges and was a separate system from the flagship UW campus in Madison; the two systems merged around 1970) to compete with UW-Madison in athletics so they did not permit by law for those school to offer athletic scholarships. I think they were in NAIA when I was in college, but as you know, many former NAIA schools ditched it for NCAA D3 status over the years.

By the way, WIAC is probably among the most stable of the college conferences. Last change was in 1964 when UW-Milwaukee left the conference. UW-Milwaukee, UW-Green Bay and UW-Parkside (Kenosha) are the only other state colleges besides UW-Madison that offer athletic scholarships (and none of those play football). I think UW-Superior dropped football, but they do play in other sports. Most of the WIAC colleges are in the western half of the state, while the majority of the population is in the southeastern part of the state (basically from Green Bay to Madison and south). (website: http://www.wiacsports.com/)

I could make a case that WIAC could be a solid NCAA D2 conference, but I doubt if there is any serious consideration of that going on right now. From what I hear in Wisconsin, outside of rooting for the Packers and drinking beer (Milwaukee was recently rated as the most drunk city in America, a well deserved honor, by the way), pretty well all that is going on is political fighting and recall elections.

While the jobs and graduates are leaving the state.
 
Speaking of Salem, it seems that Salem again hosted another NCAA D3 title ... this time in men's basketball. Somebody there has a picture of a bunch of NCAA officials with a goat, that's all I can figure.

The winner of the D3 basketball title? Can you say UW-Whitewater Warhawks?

I knew you could.
 
Congrats to your Warhawks on taking 2 of the Big 3 sports in D3. Salem hosts another championship this Spring too, not as major as football or basketball, but they have the softball finals too. I think they are in the baseball rotation as well.

The only major sport championship they've not hosted at the D3 level is lacrosse, which is tied to the D1/D2 championships, mostly rotating between Baltimore, Philly, and Boston (technically Foxboro).

It'll be interesting to see if anyone can challenge them football wise next fall. Wesley and UMHB have come the closest (besides Mount Union of course), and Wesley just got one of the best public school athletes from Maryland.
 
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