Kick Catch Interference on an Onside?

[SWRaider]

I attended a game yesterday and the opening kickoff was an onside attempt. The receiving player did not stay at the 35 yard line and stepped forward 2-3 yards to field the kick.
The ball, a member of the kicking team and the member of the receiving team who is now at the 37 yard line all come together at the same time at the 37.
The receiving player touches the ball first and fumbles hit and is recovered by the kicking team.
However kick catch interference was called and the receiving team had the ball plus the 15 yard penalty.
I may be wrong but if any member of the receiving team moves across the 35 yard line to field the ball they no longer protected as long as the kicking team is equal to or behind the ball.
Am I right or wrong?

 

[cowman52]

A receiving player must have an chance to catch the ball, if there is a member of the kicking team that in the officials opinion that has made the catch difficult or impossible, that is a penalty. The kick may bounce directly once and the player still has the right to catch the ball, the ball may bounce off the receiver and he still is allowed to make the catch. Where the player is standing makes no difference.

 

[coachsatcher]

Doesn't this depend on whether the ball is scooting along the ground or if it's in the air? I always thought if it was an onside kick, that has hit the ground multiple times prior to reaching the 35, it was fair game for both sides.

 

[SWRaider]

Yes, this kick was bouncing on the ground, wasnt kicked in the air.

 

[VanguardVikings]

Exact same play, exact same result against us during week 2. Did not agree with it. If the player comes up to receive a bouncing kick he gives up the 15 yard protection.

 

[Hondo]

Once the ball hits the ground a second time, ie rolling on the ground, you can't not have KCI. But remember the kicking team can't block a receiving team player until the ball has gone 15 yards or the ball has touched a receiving team player. So if a receiving Team player moves forward 2 yards to the 37 and is in position to catch the rolling ball, the kicking team can't block him until the receiving team player touches the kick. This would be an illegal block and a 5 yard penalty.

 

[Count Coog]

What if the receiving team is fielding the ball after the 15 yards, is the kicking team allowed to run in and blow up the player that is in a receiving position. (Head down, bent over, hands extended) Does he not fall into the defenseless receiver category?

 

[Hondo]

He is defensless. So no he can not be hit in the head or neck area. That would be a 15 yard penalty, but would be targeting and include an ejection. Remember no player can hit hit any opponent with his crown. Of course since the ball has gone 15 yards the kicking team could also just recover the ball.

 

[fencewire]

Even though he is defenseless he can be blocked, he just can't be blocked below the waist or above the shoulders.

 

[HisTeam]

I believe we had this called last Friday night but was wrong. The end result is still the same but it was called interference but should have been called a Personal Foul because the ball had not reached 15 yards and the receiving team did not advance beyond their line. The kicking team engaged the receiving team and thus the foul.

 

[Legacy Zebra]

Actually, HisTeam, it does matter. KCI is a fifteen yard penalty and can only be enforced from the spot of the foul. Blocking early is not a personal foul and is a five yard penalty. It can either be enforced at the previous spot with a re kick or it can be enforced at where the ball is dead if the receiving team is in possession at the end of the play.

 

[HisTeam]

I understand that is when blocking occurs. I am referring to to Rule 4 Section 4 paragraph g:

g. Contact by Team A involving a targeting foul (Rules 9-1-3 and 9-1-4) or other
personal foul that interferes with the receiver’s opportunity to catch a kick
may be ruled either as interference or as a targeting or personal foul. The
15-yard penalty is enforced at the spot where the dead ball belongs to Team
B or at the spot of the foul, at the option of Team B.

PENALTY [a-g]—For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball, first
down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference
foul [S33]. For foul behind the goal line: Award a touchback
and penalize from the succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders shall
be disqualified [S47].

In our game the kicking team's player hit a defenseless player not attempting to catch the ball and the ball had not crossed the receiving team's restraining line.

 

[Legacy Zebra]

That rule says that if KCI is also a personal foul it can be ruled as either one. But what was the personal foul? Rule 9-1 covers personal fouls. Was he tripped, face masked, blocked below the waist, clipped, hurdled, chop blocked, horse collar tackled, or targeted? Those are about the only ways this would be a personal foul. And remember for targeting, just because he is defenseless, that doesn't mean he can't be contacted, it just means he can't be hit in the head or neck. If none of those apply, and it was not kick catch interference, there is no way for this to be more than a 5 yard foul.

 

[HisTeam]

SOmething new learned. Thanks!

 

[shreaky]

I think free kicks - particularly on-side kicks in 6-man - need to have the rules modified for the safety of the players. I realize football is a violent game, but on-side kicks can be deadly.

 

[JasonTX]

I think free kicks - particularly on-side kicks in 6-man - need to have the rules modified for the safety of the players. I realize football is a violent game, but on-side kicks can be deadly.

I'm with you here. Onside kicks in sixman are nerve wrecking for an official. The ball bouncing around, Team A flying, Team B going for the ball, somebody touches it, but who? All mayhem. Kick that sucker deep.

 

[Dusty Britches]

I watched a game Friday night where the kicking team blocked the receiving team well before the ball went 15 yards. The 5th time, the line judge threw a flag and the ref blew it of. Couldn't believe it. A very effective way to recover an onside kick when all the receiving team members in the area of the ball are lying on their backs.

 

[HisTeam]

I found this from last year:

So what the ref is saying then is...iffin the kicking team touches the ball before it go 15 yards...they get a free shot at whomever they want to smack....
You get to keep the ball as the receiving team where they(the kicking team) touched it provided it doesn't go the required 15 yards..but you don't get an extra penalty yards for the extra contact...

I respectfully disagree with the way you put it. A "free" shot is not valid view to this at all. It is a football play. Kicking teams may not initiate a block on receiving team players unless they have become eligible to touch it. Meaning either Recievers touch it or the ball has traveled 15 yards . Blocking prior to this is a 5 yard penalty. I just never see teams thinking they will touch a free kick short and go block someone. That makes no sense.

A caveat. Kicking team members could do something stupid and committ a personal foul in many ways coming down on these types of kicks. Head hunting with a purpose and doing something outside the scope of the rules. Examples - blocking a kid below the waist, leading with helmet, a straight up tackle or hold. There is no yardage restriction with regards to the ball etc on this type of action and in the play example would place the ball back 15 on a new kick. Or coaches choice to take at the spot. I saw this once in a six man game years and years ago. Team was way ahead against a rival and only cared to hit during the kick as no one went for the onside kick. One kid went for a kids knees and we DQ'ed him. It was flagrant with intent to hurt someone. We had no other issues after that.

Maybe some help in clarification?

 

[rickref72]

A few points to remember on kick rules.
1. Kicking team may not initiate a block until they legally can recover. This is usually two things either team B touched the ball or the ball traveled the 15 yards needed for the klckers to legally recover.
2. The kicking team may also not "initiate" a block.
3. KCI protection only applies to kicks in the air or that have bounced only once as stated before now.

In this case it sounds as if the kick was a typical onside. Ball rolls around on the ground and a front line rec team member tries to come up and field it. If he was contacted legally, or not VIA a personal foul then it is simply an illegal block. Only a 5 yard penalty enforcement ie dependant on the result of the play. To me sounds like a misapplication of the KCI rule but possibly was a foul for illegal block. This can be mixed up by newer officials.
"Exact same play, exact same result against us during week 2. Did not agree with it. If the player comes up to receive a bouncing kick he gives up the 15 yard protection." This is not entirley true and subject to rules and judgement. See above. If a player steps up to field teh ball on contcat is made from a kicking team member, judgement on that contcat has to be made. Was it to field the loose ball or block a player off the ball. If a block then as officials we have to know if it had touched the return team members or not or did it pass 15 yards. If none of that is met and he was blocking then we have a foul. A safe assumption is 90% of the time you have a couple of guys going for a ball and they make contact. Also if REC players step up to meet kickers on an onside we usually are not inclined to peg illegal blcoks on the kickers. Again we are looking for the kickiers to initiate.

 

[VanguardVikings]

Thanks for the clarification rick. I believe the thing I did not agree with was the 15 yard penalty that we received from this. I think you're right, most of the time it's simultaneous contact because kids are going for the ball. Since this is such a prevalent play in sixman there should be an emphasis on getting it correct.