"Cut-blocking" in Six Man vs. illegal block below the waist

[BE]

I have never in over 50 years witnessed a high school player intentionally cut-block a player from the back outside the tackles. Its not an issue. Not sayin it hasn't happened, just that it is so rare that its not an issue.

Some of this sounds like the temper tantrum of a pampered victim who's cryin "MAMA!" with a melted down thumb stuck to his tongue.

Have I seen blocking below the waist from the side and rear inside the tackles? Yes. I have never used it. Probably should have. I have always found different ways to slow down fast rushers and to move defenders trying to make tackles. Its not an issue worthy of crying for banishment . Some of this concern is good and well needed, but I don't know any team that has ever used illegal cut-blocking on a regular basis. We didn't at RS, not in Follett, PC didn't do it. Highland did not.
Cujo (Chudej) in GC absolutely destroyed Cole Freeman with a cut-block in the 2010 semi-finals, but the film showed that it was a solid legal block below the waist.

If a player wants to intimidate an opponent, there are plenty of legal ways to do it. Thank goodness so far, the football authorities recognize the undeserved bad press and down right disgruntled nature of the complaints against this traditional football tactic.
If your worried little Johnny is going to get hurt by one of these blocks, do what I did and make them wear soccer or softball shin guards. Its called prevention my friend. And if your concerned about knees make them use a high quality knee pad, instead of those wafer thin pads that wouldn't protect a knee from a fall on the grass let alone the type of banging football inflicts.

But next week it could all change. Anything is possible these days. If HRC can be the next president of these united states, anything can happen. And if it does occur I will be the first grown arss man to stand in the middle of his living room screamin to the top of his lungs, "MAMA! MAMA!"

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[jjloehr]

I have never in over 50 years witnessed a high school player intentionally cut-block a player from the back outside the tackles. Its not an issue. Not sayin it hasn't happened, just that it is so rare that its not an issue.

Some of this sounds like the temper tantrum of a pampered victim who's cryin "MAMA!" with a melted down thumb stuck to his tongue.

Have I seen blocking below the waist from the side and rear inside the tackles? Yes. I have never used it. Probably should have. I have always found different ways to slow down fast rushers and to move defenders trying to make tackles. Its not an issue worthy of crying for banishment . Some of this concern is good and well needed, but I don't know any team that has ever used illegal cut-blocking on a regular basis. We didn't at RS, not in Follett, PC didn't do it. Highland did not.
Cujo (Chudej) in GC absolutely destroyed Cole Freeman with a cut-block in the 2010 semi-finals, but the film showed that it was a solid legal block below the waist.

If a player wants to intimidate an opponent, there are plenty of legal ways to do it. Thank goodness so far, the football authorities recognize the undeserved bad press and down right disgruntled nature of the complaints against this traditional football tactic.
If your worried little Johnny is going to get hurt by one of these blocks, do what I did and make them wear soccer or softball shin guards. Its called prevention my friend. And if your concerned about knees make them use a high quality knee pad, instead of those wafer thin pads that wouldn't protect a knee from a fall on the grass let alone the type of banging football inflicts.

But next week it could all change. Anything is possible these days. If HRC can be the next president of these united states, anything can happen. And if it does occur I will be the first grown arss man to stand in the middle of his living room screamin to the top of his lungs, "MAMA! MAMA!"

............................................................................................................................

Mr. BE,

Get some film on Evant. On running plays, they will have between 2 and 4 players throw cut blocks from every angle and in any direction. I saw at least a dozen side or behind angle cuts, or cuts backwards or to the snap in one game. Many of these cuts were on crackbacks. Everyone of them was well outside the low block zone. We are NOT talking about the clean lead cut block. Zero complaints against that. These were 100% from angles and in directions that would prevent the player from seeing the block coming.

Of the 12 clearly illegal on film, not a single one was called the entire game.

I'm 51, coached for 19 seasons in various formats, won 9 championships, and have never seen a team trained to cut as frequently or aggressively as this team was. It was actually impressive, if it wasn't so freakin' dangerous to the players not seeing it coming. We fortunately had two players with minor knee sprains from the experience, but avoided any major injury.

Besides the risk of it to the players, it was pretty cowardly to see their larger players who easily could have thrown regular blocks going for cut-blocks on smaller players regularly.

The surprising part was that the ref crew had no idea their was a rule against any version of any cut block. Not one was called. Few coaches take time to learn details of rules. If refs don't call it, they wont know to not coach it...

Sorry to say, but you may wanna go give your Mama a call about HRC...

 

[olderelk]

Get some film on Evant. On running plays, they will have between 2 and 4 players throw cut blocks from every angle and in any direction. I saw at least a dozen side or behind angle cuts, or cuts backwards or to the snap in one game. Many of these cuts were on crackbacks. Everyone of them was well outside the low block zone. We are NOT talking about the clean lead cut block. Zero complaints against that. These were 100% from angles and in directions that would prevent the player from seeing the block coming.

Of the 12 clearly illegal on film, not a single one was called the entire game.

I'm 51, coached for 19 seasons in various formats, won 9 championships, and have never seen a team trained to cut as frequently or aggressively as this team was. It was actually impressive, if it wasn't so freakin' dangerous to the players not seeing it coming. We fortunately had two players with minor knee sprains from the experience, but avoided any major injury.

Besides the risk of it to the players, it was pretty cowardly to see their larger players who easily could have thrown regular blocks going for cut-blocks on smaller players regularly.

The surprising part was that the ref crew had no idea their was a rule against any version of any cut block. Not one was called. Few coaches take time to learn details of rules. If refs don't call it, they wont know to not coach it.....

This is disturbing, and if it is true they should be confronted about it before someone is seriously injured.

 

[BE]

Four players throw illegal cut blocks from every angle? How is that even possible in six-man?? I don't believe your accusation jj. I bet you are mistaken. Their coach is above reproach and professional in every way. I watched them play in a scrimmage and a game this year and didn't notice anything intentional .

Are you sure your not falling for the old "turn-ur-back" during the block trick some kids use to draw bad flags?? That is a cheap trick to draw flags from inexperienced officials. And sometimes kids will accidently get blocked from the side when they twist their bodies trying to dodge the cut. Not accusing you of anything when I say this...I have had coaches, teachers and parents accuse me of coaching dirty. And I don't, not in football. Now basketball is another story. ....
Can you give me a specific game you saw this mass assault of illegal blocking. I ain't no blocking policeman, but I will swallow a goldfish whole if your correct in your accusation.

 

[olderelk]

In going back and re-reading this entire thread it is now pretty obvious it was started as a complaint against Evant. In reading jjloehr's other posts I'm guessing the game in question is Cedar Park Summit.

 

[coachbronk]

In going back and re-reading this entire thread it is now pretty obvious it was started as a complaint against Evant. In reading jjloehr's other posts I'm guessing the game in question is Cedar Park Summit.

jjloehr, are you a parent or player?

 

[olderelk]

In going back and re-reading this entire thread it is now pretty obvious it was started as a complaint against Evant. In reading jjloehr's other posts I'm guessing the game in question is Cedar Park Summit.

jjloehr, are you a parent or player?

Good call.

 

[Blue Bird]

My question would be: Does Evant run a spread offense or send people in motion to get them out of the clip zone? If not, you would be hard pressed to find 5 opportunities for an illegal cut blocks a game, much less 12.

 

[Blue Bird]

My question would be: Does Evant run a spread offense or send people in motion to get them out of the clip zone? If not, you would be hard pressed to find 5 opportunities for an illegal cut blocks a game, much less 12.

 

[jjloehr]

For whomever cares, I am a former coach, player, and now only parent.

I started this thread because I wanted to get a feeling for either:
a) is there some non-obvious reason the rules re cut-blocking aren't enforced in 6-man, or
b) is there simply widespread confusion about the rule

I"ve concluded it is "b", based on the responses on this board.

As to Evant, I think they are an excellent team.

I think they are exceptionally well coached, and their record shows it.

Evant also has a few outstanding players too.

While Evant is NOT the problem, they do demonstrate the problem. Refs not knowing and/or enforcing the rule at some significant level IS the problem. Unless and until refs decide to enforce a rule consistently, coaches will have no reason to coach differently, other than not wanting to see opponent kids get injured.

 

[jjloehr]

nvm

 

[coachbronk]

In going back and re-reading this entire thread it is now pretty obvious it was started as a complaint against Evant. In reading jjloehr's other posts I'm guessing the game in question is Cedar Park Summit.

jjloehr, are you a parent or player?

Good call.

Olderelk,

It is always a sign of weakness when one resorts to attempts at insult because they cannot address the merits of an issue well.

It is interesting that you consider someone too ignorant to have worthy comment if indeed they are ONLY a parent or a player. That reflects poorly on you. This game is not as complicated as you make it seem.

Indeed, if you'd read this thread, you would have already known I've coached at various levels for almost 20 years, played high school and tried but quit college. And I've done so with great success, although always on an unpaid basis. Perhaps there are better ways to discuss an issue rather than issuing public insult because you suspect someone's credentials are not strong enough to question a rule issue in 6-man high school football. If indeed you are "older", how about adding in some "wiser"???

I don't think anyone was insulting you by asking if you are a parent or player. I think it's important to know the person's background.

 

[olderelk]

In going back and re-reading this entire thread it is now pretty obvious it was started as a complaint against Evant. In reading jjloehr's other posts I'm guessing the game in question is Cedar Park Summit.

jjloehr, are you a parent or player?

Good call.

Olderelk,

It is always a sign of weakness when one resorts to attempts at insult because they cannot address the merits of an issue well.

It is interesting that you consider someone too ignorant to have worthy comment if indeed they are ONLY a parent or a player. That reflects poorly on you. This game is not as complicated as you make it seem.

Indeed, if you'd read this thread, you would have already known I've coached at various levels for almost 20 years, played high school and tried but quit college. And I've done so with great success, although always on an unpaid basis. Perhaps there are better ways to discuss an issue rather than issuing public insult because you suspect someone's credentials are not strong enough to question a rule issue in 6-man high school football. If indeed you are "older", how about adding in some "wiser"???

lol. Man, you are doing a lot of assuming here.
I'm not attempting to insult anyone here. Seems only you are doing that.
I'm also not considering anyone ignorant.
It wasn't even me that asked the question, although I agreed with it.
The reason I said "good call" was that you seem to have the same last name as a Cedar Park Summit
player.

 

[BE]

Coach, I wasn't at the game. Have not seen the film. But it sounds like either you are exaggerating or your boys were running from the blocks. And by the score I know it probably was not the later. The only other possibility is incompetence on the part of the crew, or a conspiracy to defeat your team on the part of the crew. And that accusation can get you beat up.

In 2006 RS beat a team, no, massacred a team who had about half the team on the field actually running from our kids as they attempted to lead block. They would turn their backs and literally run away. Some ran out of bounds to avoid the blockers. As a result there were several blocks in the back called. We had four kids on the sideline and they all played. But no matter who was blocking, the defenders turned and ran or dodged our kids to get away from them. It was a first for me.
Even though that happened many of us still respected them because they did come to RS to play. And they had to have known it was hopeless. Still they played. Many teams would not have done that. They would have used the excuse of not having a full team present to call us and forfeit. Although the score does not reflect respect, we did. That score could have easily been 130 to 0. We were up 30 points before the offense scored their first TD.

The point is the crew called several improper blocks. If they had called them all we would have been there another hour. We actually called timeout early in the first quarter to complain to the Whitehat how their team was turning their backs at contact. They knew it because it was obvious.
Maybe that was part of the problem in your game...turning the back to avoid being blocked. Or it was a conspiracy, which is like piracy. But at least you can be comforted in knowing that what goes around eventually comes around.

 

[jjloehr]

Coach BE,

we've probably beat this horse to death, but thanks for your reply.

Perhaps I'm too sensitive to the "Good Call" remark, which seemed to condescend. I've made that mistake before, so please forgive if I did so here.

This ===> "...The only other possibility is incompetence on the part of the crew..."

Incompetence may be too strong. I think ignorance of the rule's applicability in six-man is more likely. A number on this board were also unsure, as was our own coach until I inquired about it and then looked up the rule. And the TASO ref crew onsite completely failed to enforce it, although I seriously doubt there was any ill motive.

I can assure you I did not exaggerate though. I've never seen anything like it in 40 years as a player or coach. If you want to see a few clips, private email me to jjloehr @ pobox .com . Remove the space of course. I'll see if I can share some with you.

And, no, our boys were most definitely not "running away from blocks", any more than one has to when trying to deal with cut blocks. You back peddle and side step as much as you can. Turning away at the last second still gets you blocked, possibly injured, and when nothing is being called, it is an even worse strategy. It was a close game, and we lost by 6 points due to our own mistakes. Had the calls been there, it would have turned the game, but so would have us not fumbling 5 times, or not being able to make our extra point kicks. Evant is a good team, with a good coach, and some good players doing exactly what they were coached to do. Neither our coach, nor Evant's, knew the rule at the time. I.e., simply put, when a blocker begins to initiate his block, it must be towards the frontal "10 o'clock 'n 2 o'clock" angle at that time. If the defender turns after the initiation, that is on the defender. And if the direction of the block is downfield or towards the outer near sideline, it is also clean. No complaints here. I'd teach that myself.

But blocks that can seriously injure a player because they cannot see it coming in order to react, either due to angle of initial approach, or unexpected direction, eg, crackbacks, is both "cheap", and dangerous and should be coached and "refereed" against as per rules. Period. Any who minimize that imperative do not belong in coaching, or perhaps in any supervisory role of youths, in my opinion, as they've put something else ahead of long term health and safety of players.

What it'll take to address this confusion on any widespread basis, I'm not sure. I do think it must start with ref crews and their training. Informed coaches can reinforce. Ex-coaches/current parents informed enough may be able to help. I think I've done all I can with this thread to promote a little more awareness. Thanks for the dialog and let me know by email if you'd like more.

Adios!