Deputy Dawg
11-man fan
I amthinking about moving to a new school district that uses cscope. is it good or bad? I have heard a little of both, so I need some good input before I sign a dotted line.
CScope
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freeagent
Six-man pro
DAWG ... Run away! Run away as fast as you can!
Okay, seriously. I'm going to tell you this more-or-less second hand since my wife taught in a district that used CScope as their sole method of education last year for math. Teachers are scripted and given about as much flexibility as you'd get in a North Korean prison camp. The central office provided lessons, worksheets, quizzes and tests, not always in the proper form.
Over half the freshmen Algebra I kids failed the first semester and my wife was reassigned to "re-teach" those kids in the spring (which meant they had two math classes each day).
Fortunately, the director of instruction who was the wise one who brought this in to the district left (out of state) so more-or-less, she took the fall for the failure. This year, they are allowing the teachers to use other cirriculum in addition to CScope.
Everything I've heard is that CScope works well in addition to existing cirriculum, but it is not very effective in a stand-alone basis.
But then, I'm not a professional on these matters and just am reporting what I know. Which usually isn't much.
Okay, seriously. I'm going to tell you this more-or-less second hand since my wife taught in a district that used CScope as their sole method of education last year for math. Teachers are scripted and given about as much flexibility as you'd get in a North Korean prison camp. The central office provided lessons, worksheets, quizzes and tests, not always in the proper form.
Over half the freshmen Algebra I kids failed the first semester and my wife was reassigned to "re-teach" those kids in the spring (which meant they had two math classes each day).
Fortunately, the director of instruction who was the wise one who brought this in to the district left (out of state) so more-or-less, she took the fall for the failure. This year, they are allowing the teachers to use other cirriculum in addition to CScope.
Everything I've heard is that CScope works well in addition to existing cirriculum, but it is not very effective in a stand-alone basis.
But then, I'm not a professional on these matters and just am reporting what I know. Which usually isn't much.
Dogface
Six-man fan
I've been in a district that was supposed to be using it.
Some didn't even try and some said they liked it ok.
I couldn't use it for sped.
It has little to no resources except in math and science.
I didn't find it ridgid,
I found it weak, because of the lack of resources.
For example: it will tell you basically what to teach, and when,
but then you have to come up with exact supporting aides; the perfect book, object lesson, worksheet, video etc.
If you are good at that I'd say it's no sweat.
In this job climate, I don't think it should be a deal breaker.
It's a gov. thing.
The TEKS should have been enough but adding CScope made money for someone so...
Some didn't even try and some said they liked it ok.
I couldn't use it for sped.
It has little to no resources except in math and science.
I didn't find it ridgid,
I found it weak, because of the lack of resources.
For example: it will tell you basically what to teach, and when,
but then you have to come up with exact supporting aides; the perfect book, object lesson, worksheet, video etc.
If you are good at that I'd say it's no sweat.
In this job climate, I don't think it should be a deal breaker.
It's a gov. thing.
The TEKS should have been enough but adding CScope made money for someone so...
texashelmetproject
11-man fan
It's not bad, but it depends how the district uses it. I just brought it with me to my new district, in fact we had our initial training yesterday. Don't worry, I gave the teachers a comp day for it and they will not have to report until Tuesday the week before school. It the district says that is all you are going to use, then run away. The people as CScope will even tell you that you need to use other resources. My teachers are required to follow the scope and sequence. The lessons are optional. The lady that did our training said that over 800 districts use CScope, so good luck finding a district that doesn't use it. The people that think it is bad usually have one of two things happening 1) the district is not using as it is intended or 2) the teacher does not care that they aren't teaching the state standards and want to continue to do things their way. I like it because of the verbage. It tells exactly what students need to know and be able to preform the concept. Remember experts in the field are writing CScope. Some people will say that don't like the sequence, but their is a document that tells you if the student will be using the concept later in the year and the student does not have to master the objective on the first go around because they will see it again later in the year or in years to come. Example, elementary kids see place value every year, so why does a first grader have to master place value if they will see it again in second and third grade. The biggest thing I like to see, which is difficult, having teachers teach the concepts the same way. Why be taught differently year to year on the same concept? Kids would be more successful if the concepts were taught the same way from year to year. There's my two cents.
texashelmetproject
11-man fan
Dawg, the TEKS are too broad, at least in math anyways. CScope gives you specifications and remember these folks are talking with the people who work for Pearson and TEA.
Dogface
Six-man fan
I feel as though I got thrown into it.
So,
If I received more (or any at all!) training,
even I could prolly use it well.
So,
If I received more (or any at all!) training,
even I could prolly use it well.
According to a fellow board member on another site that happens to work at TEA, there is no correspondence between TEA and the makers of CSCOPE in reference to creating the new STAAR exams. CSCOPE is a separate entity that has sold the Administrators that it is good. I personally like the way the scope and sequence is set up, but if told to use it as a lone source it is teach by number. Great if you're a first year and need a bit of guidance. This will be my 12th year and I do not like it at all. FOr one, it assumes in its instruction that the kids have a prior knowledge base that in the last 3 years I have noticed most of the kids at the schools I have been in do not have. I used it this year because I taught 6th grade social studies for the first time. It helped me tremendoulsy becaus eit WAS my first time for that course. It does not help me for my biology and 7th grade science. I had 22 kids this year in biology and 20 passed the minimum score the first time, 19 of which passed the Phase II score as well. All I heard all year from workshops was that if the student was not commended in science the year before, they did not have much chance to pass. So, I just hammered biology into thier brains the same way I have been at every school.
Long story short, I am not sold on CSCOPE and there are more teachers out there that feel the way I do than there are the other side of the coin. It looks to me that administrators are the only ones truly sold on it.
Long story short, I am not sold on CSCOPE and there are more teachers out there that feel the way I do than there are the other side of the coin. It looks to me that administrators are the only ones truly sold on it.
We started CScope in my district this past year - math/science. Adding Soc. Stds this year. We were given the go ahead to use our own materials as long as we followed the YAG and scope and sequence. I thought it was ok, lots of teachers hated it. You need to be able to pull extras into it.
Broadcaster
Six-man fan
Tried to use CSCOPE for a year. I got tired of doing cut-outs and group work and playing games. I didn't like it but that is just the opinion of a teacher who went to college for 4 years, got a certified lifetime certificate, four teaching fields... taught school for 30 plus years.... Kind of had a tough time with a "dictated curriculum". Just an old dog I guess.
coachsatcher
Six-man fan
It's not the "End All" that some make it sound like. It has some very good tools and help keep a department aligned to try and avoid the major gaps that can happen from year to year. Some school district mandate that you follow it precisely, which could be a drag for veteran teachers who have produced great results using their own methods of teaching. However, it's very helpful to new teachers who don't have the experience. At my last school, they asked we follow the scope and sequence; but were allowed to add our own teaching style, methods and materials. I like the structure of it, but it does not sequence in correlation with the STAAR exam, which is something I complained about this year. I has lessons being taught through May, but with the STAAR exam being given in April, it leaves several TEKS untouched. I guess it is what it is.
freeagent
Six-man pro
In business school, there's a story told about the dog food company who did all sorts of market research about a new dog food.
Checked with dog owners to come up with the right name, shape, size, smell, etc. Got the stuff produced and rolled it out with a big bang.
And it sold real well, the first time through. But the re-sale rate was virtually nil.
Seems none of those wise market researchers never bothered to find out if dogs liked their new dog food. They didn't.
Maybe they should teach that lesson in some of the education schools, especially with the graduate schools and folks who create curriculum plans ...
Checked with dog owners to come up with the right name, shape, size, smell, etc. Got the stuff produced and rolled it out with a big bang.
And it sold real well, the first time through. But the re-sale rate was virtually nil.
Seems none of those wise market researchers never bothered to find out if dogs liked their new dog food. They didn't.
Maybe they should teach that lesson in some of the education schools, especially with the graduate schools and folks who create curriculum plans ...
RogueEconomist
11-man fan
Three years ago I did a study for my administration that was considering using it. I looked at the math and science scores on the Taks before and after Cscope for 40 schools from around the state that had adopted Cscope. The sample was random and encompassed all sizes of schools. The results showed 2 schools showed improvement, six were statistically flat and 32 had Taks scores that declined.
The year at glance is good, the assessments are decent, though there are only 2 in a six weeks. The rest is busy work and garbage. In training your told not to stop and reteach if the students are not getting it, they will get it later. Not such a great idea in a subject like math that builds on prior knowledge. Administrators have been sold a bill of goods it appears to me. They like it because the students appear to be always busy on meaningless projects. Back 40 years there was a thing that came out called “new math” which was badly flawed, all administrators forced it down down teachers throats till they discovered that students in high school couldn't add. This is the New math of the 21st century.
As a teacher it depends, if the school lets you use it as a tool, fine. If you are forced to use Cscope to the letter, your Staar test results will most likely be disaster and you will get fired. There is so much money that has been poured into this that it will be a while before defeat is admitted and it is abandoned just like “New Math” and “Delorian Handwriting” where kids were never taught to print.
I hope administration takes a hard look at this and listen to the teachers rather that someone trying to sell them the latest unproven shinny thing.
The year at glance is good, the assessments are decent, though there are only 2 in a six weeks. The rest is busy work and garbage. In training your told not to stop and reteach if the students are not getting it, they will get it later. Not such a great idea in a subject like math that builds on prior knowledge. Administrators have been sold a bill of goods it appears to me. They like it because the students appear to be always busy on meaningless projects. Back 40 years there was a thing that came out called “new math” which was badly flawed, all administrators forced it down down teachers throats till they discovered that students in high school couldn't add. This is the New math of the 21st century.
As a teacher it depends, if the school lets you use it as a tool, fine. If you are forced to use Cscope to the letter, your Staar test results will most likely be disaster and you will get fired. There is so much money that has been poured into this that it will be a while before defeat is admitted and it is abandoned just like “New Math” and “Delorian Handwriting” where kids were never taught to print.
I hope administration takes a hard look at this and listen to the teachers rather that someone trying to sell them the latest unproven shinny thing.
texashelmetproject
11-man fan
Contrary to popular belief CScope is very inexpensive. A 1A school pays a $1000 dollar fee, and then $7 per student. So for a district with 500 kids, you are spending $9 per kid for all the core subjects. I bought a TAKS workbook for math students a few years ago that was about $15 per kid.
I like it because it helps teachers see how students need to perform the concept. In the vertical alignment document it tells the teacher how TEKS need to be specifically taught.
As far as reviewing students, CScope has a spiral review for each week.
It worked at the district I was previously at. I inherited an elementary campus that was AA and did not meet AYP. In the first year of CScope we went to Recognized (After TPM was taken away, and all other schools were dropping a rating) and met AYP. The campus math scores went up 15%. I'm not foolish enough though to think that was the only reason our scores went up. We departmentalized fourth through sixth (previously self contained) and we hired a great math teacher, but she used CScope and had used it prior to hiring here.
I like it because it helps teachers see how students need to perform the concept. In the vertical alignment document it tells the teacher how TEKS need to be specifically taught.
As far as reviewing students, CScope has a spiral review for each week.
It worked at the district I was previously at. I inherited an elementary campus that was AA and did not meet AYP. In the first year of CScope we went to Recognized (After TPM was taken away, and all other schools were dropping a rating) and met AYP. The campus math scores went up 15%. I'm not foolish enough though to think that was the only reason our scores went up. We departmentalized fourth through sixth (previously self contained) and we hired a great math teacher, but she used CScope and had used it prior to hiring here.
Deputy Dawg":6jeyz9kd said:
CScope success depends upon how the district incorporates it. Some districts require CScope to be followed to the letter, use the lessons as written and give no room for variation. I am not a fan of a one size fits all approach to education, as it takes away individuality of both the student and the teacher. This approach does not allow for modifications to vary the lesson to incorporate activities geared towards different learning styles and application of individual strengths. With districts such as these, you see an increase on AYP during the first year but then it slacks off from there.
If your district uses CScope, it should be used more as a guide to develop your own lessons off of. Successful teachers teach to the individual students and not a test. One recommendation I have coming from a Technology Director, learn the limitations of your district's bandwidth. CScope lessons can be heavy with YouTube videos. Make sure your district allows access to YouTube and has enough available bandwidth to stream the videos. I would recommend using Firefox and nstalling the YouTube downloaded add-on. This allows you to save the videos to the local computer, flash drive, network folder, etc. the big advantage to this is you do not slow down your entire district with streaming bandwidth hogging videos and having the disruptions of buffering. With the video saved, it runs directly from your computer which allows the video to run smooth and it keeps your IT folks happy. We IT folks can be grumpy, especially when it comes to streaming.
I hope this helps. One more bit of advise I have learned from graduate studies and experience, the mind can only absorb as much as the butt will allow. When they get bored or have sat for a long period of time without activity, they start adjusting themselves in their seats which turns off the learning switch to the brain.
I disliked it for the very reasons they promote it...the sequence is confusing and the scope flawed. And zero time for reteaching. Worst of all, too much emphasis on group work which my kids liked at first, but by the sixth or seventh time in the first four weeks they begged me not to do in any form. So after that I used it as a threat to prevent them from misbehaving...what a classroom management tool!! I found it similar to the old-style push to cover the entire textbook, which is virtually impossible in History. However, any newby or classroom aide can teach it; and that may be its real purpose.
If your admin. pushes it form a vigilante group and plant forty-eleven RE/MAX signs in his yard.
Another idea is to use CSCOPE as a tool to convince "oldtimers" like myself to contemplate starting a new career, like driving a HAZMAT truck or pealing mushroom bushels at Imos convenience store.
If your admin. pushes it form a vigilante group and plant forty-eleven RE/MAX signs in his yard.
Another idea is to use CSCOPE as a tool to convince "oldtimers" like myself to contemplate starting a new career, like driving a HAZMAT truck or pealing mushroom bushels at Imos convenience store.
Dogface
Six-man fan
Who is supposed to buy all the stuff for the science experiments?
