Celebration into the Endzone

[burnerman]

I need further clarification on this rule. A head referee who addressed our coaches and players explained that any celebration going into the endzone would be cause for a penalty and No TD would be awarded. The obvious things were talked about ie: diving into the endzone, pounding chests, pointing at pursuing defense, holding out ball away from body, all of these were said to be illegal celebrations. Specifically mentioned also was entering the endzone and pointing at the sky. This too was said to be illegal.

In Friday night's game, 26th , player has long run goes into endzone and points to sky. Referee says no penalty as player did not do anything else and his examples are pointing at defense, pounding chest etc.

So what the heck is the rule. it is really aggravating that we at times get such inconsistent rule application. I mean it is what it is and we can all teach our kids to understand and play by the rules but can we not get more consistent application.

 

[Hondo]

A quick point to the sky should not be considered an unsportsmanlike conduct. If it is done as part of a "production or in a way to draw attention to himself" that is different. In the list of UNS examples the "point to the sky" is not listed.

 

[kbjoe1]

i agree a point to the sky should not have a flag thrown!!!! thanking God is always right.

 

[freeagent]

i agree a point to the sky should not have a flag thrown!!!! thanking God is always right.

As the Right Rev. Goob might note, some of us "church skools" kids consider that a thank you to our Creator for His assistance in that last score ...

 

[kbjoe1]

not to get on my box but to many times in life when it is hard we are johnny on the spot to ask for his help but when things are good we are patting our ownself on the back...or holding our hands up doing a dance on how good we did... it is refreshing to see a jesture of thanks... its too bad about how our school systems and legal systems have caved on the issue of prayer. thats another issue
good luck to all and may each of you have Gods hand apon you to protect you the kids at play and to the fans as they travel and support their favorite team!

 

[JHunt]

In our pre-game meeting we discussed what we were going to consider celebrations. We will penalize the point in the air. In fact, I believe the point is used as an example in the rule book interpretations.

 

[kbjoe1]

You are the liberal part of our society that wants to remove God from our lives. Im ashamed for you. When is the USA going to stand up and tell this group of people that we are not going to cower to their way of life.. Soon Texas they are going to tell you that you cant fly the Texas or the American flag.. when they continue to tax you out of existence go ahead just like a animal stick your head in the government trough because you didn’t have the guts to stand up…. Come on people how many liberties are you willing to give up… are you going to duck your head in shame and just go along with this mess?
Guess what the game is played with emotion……..!!!!!!!! Does anyone want this to go away ???? Is a young man suppose to not have some exuberance upon success….. We will allow sadness and even support a better luck next time but you people who support this activity are the only ones that can change this lesion that eats at our very soul

 

[fencewire]

In our pre-game meeting we discussed what we were going to consider celebrations. We will penalize the point in the air. In fact, I believe the point is used as an example in the rule book interpretations.

Pointing at another player is in the rule, pointing in the air is not referenced, and is no way used to taunt. It isn't prolonged, excessive, or choreographed. This is something that should be passed on. At the very least it shouldn't be flagged unless.a.warning had been already give to that player, but really not even then.

Also, these flags, unless "the act" was clearly done in the field of play, are dead ball and the score is not taken off the board.

 

[Hondo]

In our pre-game meeting we discussed what we were going to consider celebrations. We will penalize the point in the air. In fact, I believe the point is used as an example in the rule book interpretations.

As fencewire pointed out, this is NOT taunting. Rule 9-2-1-a-1-(a) talks about point at an opponent or slashing the throat. This has nothing to do with "left" or "right" politics, only following the rulebook. Quick spontaneous celebrations are legal. We are trying to stop the "Unsprtsmanlike" acts. Putting someone down, mocking them, shaming them, think along those lines. Pointin to heaven does none of those things and IS NOT RESTRICTED in the rulebook.

 

[JasonTX]

In our pre-game meeting we discussed what we were going to consider celebrations. We will penalize the point in the air. In fact, I believe the point is used as an example in the rule book interpretations.

I would suggest that you join the CFO website and watch the videos that Rogers Redding has on celebrations. Pointing to the sky is specifically NOT ILLEGAL. I couldn't have said it any better than what Hondo posted.

 

[Howdy_85]

Here's the scenario I never want to see (as an official or fan):

3rd down and 3 from the A10. At the snap, B65 is lined up in the neutral zone. A17 takes the snap and hands off to A32 who breaks off tackle and clears the defense. When A32 is at approximately the B10 yard line, he begins high stepping and is flagged for it prior to entering the end zone. Result of the play this year? Offsetting live ball fouls, replay the down from the A10. (See Rule 9, Section 2, Article 1) (AR 9-2-1 (V))

I'm just not sure how to reconcile that a 90-yard run with a non-contact, non-safety issue foul is equal to a 5-yard offside. I look for this rule to change back next year. We can only hope.

 

[JasonTX]

I really don't see the rule changing. They have spent too much money getting the word out there. Teams and players have known this rule was coming since last season when it was first announced. You can bet that if this happens at the college level (taking a TD away) it will receive so much media attention all the players and teams around the country that have this rule will not do anything that may draw a flag. I know that all the college teams were briefed on the rule during the spring and summer scrimmages so they are well aware of it. Typically rules like this do just the trick to prevent anything from happening so we may never see a TD taken away. I would be shocked if we have one at the college level. If we do, you can bet that the player drawing the flag will be in serious trouble by the coach. It sort of like the wedge formation. The rule is put in, and then the wedge formations vanish.

Not related to this, but since the rules for blocking below the waist have been changed. Teams are more confused now as to who, when, and where they can block below the waist, that they are pretty well not teaching them to block low anymore out fear of being flagged. Perhaps that is why they made the rule so difficult to enforce that they hoped it would just eliminate blocking below the waist without having to just ban it altogether.

 

[burnerman]

I started this thread and want to thank you all for posting. As a matter of fact, I personally am NOT for calling a quick point to the sky as a penalty. I would NOT really call some high stepping into the endzone a penalty either. I do see in these posts that there still is some disagreement as to if a point is a penalty. That is my ultimate question. Why with everyone citing regs is there still a question. And a questiion among the people who really count, ie: our refs. This is an issue which could potentially affect a game outcome. If there are knowledgable people ( refs ) on this thread who say they discussed and agreed to call it a penalty and others who quote the rules as not a penalty what are we the coaches supposed to do. Except get really angry about inconsistent application / interpretation of a rule. We all know the game happens at high speed and all you refs do the best job you possibly can but even you all have to be upset about this inconsistency.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Trust me, this not the only situation that is causing some of us to scratch our heads. Understand, we have no input on making the rules. A bunch of them come from college, then U.I.L. makes their exceptions, and we get some trickle down from NFL. All in all, we just have to do the best with what we have. There will be some penalties that will make you scratch your head, but we will try to do the best we can. And oh yeah, now have to watch for helmets coming off and report this. Nevermind, I think coaches should fit helmets correctly, make sure they fit and stay fitted, and make sure chin straps are strapped up, at least I did back in the day.

 

[TheRef59]

I agree with the intent of the rule completely. I have no problem with the short point in the sky or penalizing the obvious celebration that is meant to show up the other team. My one main concern, which will not happen often or maybe not at all. What do we do about the player who is running down the field for the game winnining touchdown at the end of the game who, out of excitement holds the ball up in the air and maybe even starts jumping as he nears the endzone. THAT is the one that really scares me. The letter of the rule is take the TD away, but was that the intent?

 

[TheRef59]

I started this thread and want to thank you all for posting. As a matter of fact, I personally am NOT for calling a quick point to the sky as a penalty. I would NOT really call some high stepping into the endzone a penalty either. I do see in these posts that there still is some disagreement as to if a point is a penalty. That is my ultimate question. Why with everyone citing regs is there still a question. And a questiion among the people who really count, ie: our refs. This is an issue which could potentially affect a game outcome. If there are knowledgable people ( refs ) on this thread who say they discussed and agreed to call it a penalty and others who quote the rules as not a penalty what are we the coaches supposed to do. Except get really angry about inconsistent application / interpretation of a rule. We all know the game happens at high speed and all you refs do the best job you possibly can but even you all have to be upset about this inconsistency.

As long as humans are involved, inconsistency WILL happen. Refs do not make the rules, but are told to enforce them. The horsecollar rule was one that is still being worked out among crews. We as officials do our best to not have an impact on the outcome of the game, unfortunantly it does happen from time to time. Teams practice plays every day and still make mistakes, officials show up to games without practice and are expected to be perfect. I've been on all 3 sides. Player, Coach and official. It's why coaches are allowed to vent towards me more, than maybe they are to other officals. I've seen all three sides. I understand and agree with your concern. Also remember, there is a huge turnover in officials. Newer officials are learning and usually learn from mistakes. Hopefully the consistency of how to call this will be better by district games. That's when it REALLY matters.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

What this guy said.

 

[JasonTX]

Here is a brief overview from the NCAA mechanics manual in dealing with unsportsmanlike.

* Remember that the game is one of high emotion, played by gifted teenagers who are affirmed by playing a game at which they are exceptionally talented.
* Do not be overly technical in applying the rule.
* Do allow for brief spontaneous emotional reactions at the end of a play. Beyond the brief, spontaneuous bursts of energy, officials should flag those acts that are clearly prolonged, self-congratulatory, and that make a mockery of the game.

When such a situation arises, officials should wait a count, take a deep breath and assess what they feel about what they have seen.
If it feels OK, let it go.
If it feels wrong, flag it.
It will never be possible to be totally specific in writing what should and should not be allowed. But we trust our officials to be of good judgment who know in their hearts what should and should not be allowed in the heat of an emotional game.

The rules specified in Rule 9-2-1 a thru h are intended to be illustrative and not exhaustive.

 

[kbjoe1]

This is the exact response that tells me that this has not been thought out on how the rule should be implamemented.. it should be either black or white it should never come down to how an official interprets the situation... I simply don’t understand why we continue to add rules that put the out come of a game in a subjective decision placed in the hands of an official. to many times the call will be made differently from one ref to another, referees have emotions to they are not robots as much as I think we would like them to be....

taunting should be penalized, but do you really think it should be more than a personal foul??

remember this the more rules that you make the more you are going to paint yourself into a corner so be careful of the far reaching effects




Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:00 pm

Re: Celebration into the Endzone

Here is a brief overview from the NCAA mechanics manual in dealing with unsportsmanlike.

* Remember that the game is one of high emotion, played by gifted teenagers who are affirmed by playing a game at which they are exceptionally talented.
* Do not be overly technical in applying the rule.
* Do allow for brief spontaneous emotional reactions at the end of a play. Beyond the brief, spontaneuous bursts of energy, officials should flag those acts that are clearly prolonged, self-congratulatory, and that make a mockery of the game.

When such a situation arises, officials should wait a count, take a deep breath and assess what they feel about what they have seen.
If it feels OK, let it go.
If it feels wrong, flag it.
It will never be possible to be totally specific in writing what should and should not be allowed. But we trust our officials to be of good judgment who know in their hearts what should and should not be allowed in the heat of an emotional game.

The rules specified in Rule 9-2-1 a thru h are intended to be illustrative and not exhaustive.

 

[freeagent]

I agree with the intent of the rule completely. I have no problem with the short point in the sky or penalizing the obvious celebration that is meant to show up the other team. My one main concern, which will not happen often or maybe not at all. What do we do about the player who is running down the field for the game winnining touchdown at the end of the game who, out of excitement holds the ball up in the air and maybe even starts jumping as he nears the endzone. THAT is the one that really scares me. The letter of the rule is take the TD away, but was that the intent?

Chuck Noll of the Steelers used to tell his folks to can the end zone celebrations ... act like you've been there before.