Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

B

bigbadwolf

Six-man fan
Back when I played 6 man ball in the 80's (1985-1988) you were a low life team if you actually "ran someone off the field" (45'ed them). You gave your Soph. and Fresh some play time. Now, I can understand if you have 10 or less players on the team and you don't want to risk getting guys hurt and damaging a play off run, but some of the teams I saw play this year had lots of players. I believe Iredell had 18+ players and Strawn had some many it makes you wonder whey they are not playing 11 man. My point though is that they both had plenty of guys to sub in and give some playing time. When did leaving the starters in and sending teams home at the half because so popular despite having younger guys you could have played? Sorry, not picking on Iredell or Strawn because I'm sure other teams had lots of players as well. Those just stand out to me.
 
I think some of it has to do with rankings and most notably Granger's point spreads. The old coaches didnt care about such things as much, heck even in 1993-1999 most coaches didnt try to 45 folks (it still happened but it wasnt bc they were out there trying to). The new batch of coaches care a lot more about rankings and point spreads than the coaches in the 70s 80s and 90s did. So they see the weekly spreads and try to beat them so they dont drop in the rankings.

This is just my opinion on it
 
as far as playoffs...you mention Strawn...they are in DII and ever since the division split you have weaker teams making the playoffs than before the split...thus when a strong team meets up with them they crush them. Also there have been fewer competitive state games since the split when you compare to the state games before 2006.
 
So in a nutshell to answer your question...I would say:

Change in coaching tactics due to rankings and point spreads.

Division split watering down playoff competition

...again just my opinion based on observing all this since 1993.
 
I really doubt many coaches will get on here and agree with much of what has been typed thus far, including mine. I can honestly say, I have never been in a game and made a decision based on rankings or spread. Our job is to get our players to "sell out" on every play - no matter the score. You can't coach half speed!!! Me personally, I'm not pulling my starters in the first half, unless we have a 45 point lead - PERIOD! My starters earned their spot and their playing time every day at practice. What am I preparing them for if I pull them out every time they get a four touchdown lead? I have no problem adjusting the game plan to slow the scoring, and to work on milking the clock, which is something we occasionally need work on anyway. But I refuse to abandon everything we worked on that week, including personnel and rotations, just because the original game plan was successful and we got a lead.

BTW, have you ever been on the losing side of the mercy rule? I have. I have also been on the losing side of a game, when my opposing coach showed "respect" for me and my players, by kneeling throughout the fourth quarter, just to avoid the mercy rule. I'm sorry, and I love my coaching community, but I would rather you go ahead and put us out of our misery. It's much less humiliating. Get my kids, and yours, off the field and injury free.
 
Mr. Wolf, I'll bet that you witnessed this in the playoffs. During the regular season, if a team has enough players, the younger, less experienced players are playing a JV schedule, and most get a lot of playing time then.
When they get to the playoffs, everybody is suited up and on the sidelines. Most coaches try to get the playoff game over as quickly as possible, not only to avoid the chance of an injury, but also to avoid the chance of the opposing team from making a comeback, which has happened many times. Therefore the JV'ers usually don't get much playing time in the post season.
And the idea that the coaches give a rip about point spreads and such is absurd.
 
coachsatcher-
you are probably right and speak for a majority of your peers and (Mr South has echoed some of that as well), but I do know for a fact that there are some coaches that do care about rankings and point spread. It is a factor in this topic, but you are right might as it might just be a select few. It may sound absurd, and you may wish it wasnt the case...but with some (probably a minority) it is (dont shoot the messenger please)

The idea of ending it early to avoid injury is an interesting point, but coaches have always been concerned about injuries so it wouldn't explain the growing number of mercy rule games unless you argue that coaches now are a lot more concerned with injuries, which I think in some ways they might be...as the good ol days of "rub some dirt on it" or "walk it off" are gone (for the better).

Johnny South's main point (which is a good one) speaks to a change in coaching philosophy from the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s...coaches use to let the underclassmen play in big games to gain experience on a bigger stage when they were winning big in playoff games...and some still do! But yes I think some coaches do want to get it over with to help avoid injuries.
 
BTW, have you ever been on the losing side of the mercy rule? I have. I have also been on the losing side of a game, when my opposing coach showed "respect" for me and my players, by kneeling throughout the fourth quarter, just to avoid the mercy rule. I'm sorry, and I love my coaching community, but I would rather you go ahead and put us out of our misery. It's much less humiliating. Get my kids, and yours, off the field and injury free.
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Yes and thankfully no one tried to just kneel it out for a full quarter...they cycled in B-team to play with A-team guys and ended up 45ing us (1998 Gordon). I agree someone keeling it out for a full quarter would be much more humiliating than a 45 point loss.
 
Sure, blame me.

You want to know the reason:
"Back in the day" there were 60-80 schools. There wasn't the great disparity of teams we see now. Also, the coaching fraternity was much smaller and you knew everyone and you knew them well.

Now, with over 240 schools playing, the talent level is incredibly varied... and lots of coaches and movement.

Also, coaches would rather 45 you than risk getting someone injured. Why not get the game over with, keep everyone healthy, get on the old yellow dog and get home early?
 
I thought 45ing your opponent by halftime was the ultimate objective.
Strawn Did play non starters and jv players in I think every regular season game this year and 2 or three in the playoff's after the score was close to or at 45. The younger kids like scoring too in a varsity game if they can. If you want to win in December dominating opponents prior to then should be your objective prior to getting there so you can compete with other good teams when you do. JMO.
 
granger":3v0m6vm1 said:
Sure, blame me.

You want to know the reason:
"Back in the day" there were 60-80 schools. There wasn't the great disparity of teams we see now. Also, the coaching fraternity was much smaller and you knew everyone and you knew them well.

Now, with over 240 schools playing, the talent level is incredibly varied... and lots of coaches and movement.

Also, coaches would rather 45 you than risk getting someone injured. Why not get the game over with, keep everyone healthy, get on the old yellow dog and get home early?
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Yes, more schools playing and watered down playoffs due to division split are the main reasons...all true.

but so is the notion of jumping in the rankings and cover the spread...it is naive to think that doesn't happen and I can promise you it's a factor in some of these games. No one likes it but it happens, sorry.

The risk awareness of injury is a lot greater now (as I stated) and for sure is a contributing factor, so is playing the star players more to gain recognition for possible college scouts to look at them...

the correct answer to the posted question is all the above. Personally I think the more schools and the division split is the main factors, with the others contributing in smaller percentages.

I know when I was playing we could have beat people 88-6 at halftime, and so could have a lot of other schools, but we didn't...things are different now that's just the way it is. This is a question best answered by the old coaches as to why they didnt run up the score and 45 more people.

another thing is offenses are very heavily emphasized now and due to shorter practice times by the UIL that means less time to practice defense and special teams play.

In short there is no simple answer to this question lol
 
granger":1mfbebks said:
Also, coaches would rather 45 you than risk getting someone injured. Why not get the game over with, keep everyone healthy, get on the old yellow dog and get home early?
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This is the reason. I'm also in agreement with coach Satcher, the starters need to get their playing time as well. They can't be ready for a playoff run if they only play 7 or 8 plays in the weeks leading up.

The idea that coaches are worried about rankings and spreads is ridiculous. I have yet to meet a coach who cares anything about the rankings. We are happy that our teams' hard work is appreciated by the media, but it never, EVER, is on our minds during a game. If a coach is worried about that stuff, they are in this business for the wrong reason. It's upsetting to even think that there are coaches who let that stuff be a part of their decision making, in fact it's insulting.
 
I think there's two ways to look at this:

1) JV team - if your program is fortunate enough to have a JV team with a decent schedule of games for them, then let your varsity players get the work on Friday nights whether it ends as a 45 or not.

2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.

There are some exceptions to this (like a district or playoff game against an opponent that is capable of recovering from a big deficit). But by and large most coaches have a pretty good feel for the situation. And hopefully as coaches the concern of whether we "cover the spread" or not doesn't outweigh doing what is best for the kids & long-term development of the program.
 
51eleven":1xmwt990 said:
Strawn Did play non starters and jv players in I think every regular season game this year....
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I figured with the number of players on the roster that Strawn would have played several JV games this year, but I guess not.
 
speedkills":13lw6ep1 said:
2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.
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It's also a disservice to your starters if you're up 35-0, and they've only played 10-15 snaps. It's a very tricky situation.
 
Jones26":2ibaphg8 said:
speedkills":2ibaphg8 said:
2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.
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It's also a disservice to your starters if you're up 35-0, and they've only played 10-15 snaps. It's a very tricky situation.
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My thoughts about 45ing teams at the varsity level:

1) do you have a full JV schedule or not - and are your players able to play in their primary positions when they play JV?
2) if so, does the few extra reps for the less experienced part of your varsity roster outweigh the risk of injury - regardless of how many players are on your roster? (example: backup OL misses a block and starting TB suffers serious injury? In this scenario, HC becomes an idiot to the masses in a hurry if the injury hampers the teams ability to make the playoffs and/or advance.)
3) momentum swings in 6man happen quickly - is it worth it to extend the game and lose momentum - and potentially lose the game?
4) is your opponent getting "chippy" the longer the game wears on?
5) how long is your drive home? - important if you have a 2+ hour bus ride home & half your team has an XC bus call at 6am the next day
6) sometimes everything your team does goes "right", while everything for your opponent goes "wrong"

I've been on the receiving end of being 45'd more than I've been on the giving end. It's part of the game & everyone has their reasoning. I've never taken offense by it - each coach has to do what's best for their program.

Sometimes it can't be avoided, but I dislike it when a JH or JV game ends with the mercy rule - a lot of missed opportunity for development. At the varsity level, do what you gotta do IMO.

Of course Coach Jones, Coach Satcher & Granger all have valid points as well
 
This is not meant to seem rude...

It’s no ones business how coaches handle their teams but the coaches. Every situation is different and you can’t just paint it with a broad brush. I think it’s insulting to say that coaches give a crap about point spreads during the game. Yes, I know that rankings and point spreads make for good fodder during the week, but during the actual competition of the game, I’d say it’s a safe bet that 95% of the coaches don’t think about it.

In regards to 45’ing a team or being 45’d; our job is to score and keep the other team from doing it. If we don’t stop our opponent from scoring and don’t score ourselves, that’s our fault and if that means getting 45’d, well then we have to look in the mirror and fix the problem. This may sound cold blooded, but when we go into a game, our number 1 objective is to Win. If that means we win by a lot or a little than so be it. I don’t care, but I’m not going to go out of my way to stop or slow ourselves down. If our opponent can’t do it, then that’s a Them problem not an Us problem. My teams will always go into each game wanting to crush our opponent; it’s an either crush or be crushed mentality. Just like I don’t think about point spreads during the game, I also don’t think of my opponents feelings and I would expect them to do the same.

I think each game presents its own set of scenarios when it comes to when to play the younger kids and when not to. An example for us this past season, we played Union Hill in Week 8 and got polaxed. We didn’t play well at all. We came back the next week, cleaned things up and recalibrated what we needed to do. We played Chester the following week and were up 52-0 at the end of the 1st Quarter. The issue we had is that our offense had only run 6-7 Plays and we were going to be playing the next week in a Win and We Are In game so we needed more game reps but we also wanted to play the younger kids at some point. We waited until the 5:00 minute mark of the 2nd quarter and played the younger kids. Granted we have a roster of 16 so the majority of our kids already play but we have 2-3 who don’t play much.

My point my rant is that each coaching staff is responsible for their own roster and aren’t accountable to anyone other than themselves and their program. If we have 45 point mercy rule I place then we will use that rule whenever we can. With a roster of 16, it’s win and get out healthy; if that means 45ing someone then it means we 45 them and I won’t lose any sleep over that.

Just my opinion. Fire away...


speedkills":1m0cfayx said:
I think there's two ways to look at this:

1) JV team - if your program is fortunate enough to have a JV team with a decent schedule of games for them, then let your varsity players get the work on Friday nights whether it ends as a 45 or not.

2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.

There are some exceptions to this (like a district or playoff game against an opponent that is capable of recovering from a big deficit). But by and large most coaches have a pretty good feel for the situation. And hopefully as coaches the concern of whether we "cover the spread" or not doesn't outweigh doing what is best for the kids & long-term development of the program.
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Coach Jones, you are correct but let's look at that logically: if you're already up 35-0 after 10-15 plays then you'll be up 45+ after another 3-5 snaps. So your starters are not getting any appreciable extra work. To get them a decent quantity of reps in that scenario means committing to probably ending the game at halftime up 70+, and realistically they still might only get 25 plays.

A good scenario for an overmatched situation (up 35-40) is to utilize your younger guys on one side of the ball & leave your starters in on the other side. It typically extends a game that would otherwise end quickly & still gets reps for both groups.

Coach Shelton, that's a solid list of valid reasons/scenarios for ending it early.
 
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