Waco Parkview bails on TAPPS D2

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freeagent

Six-man pro
Waco Parkview Christian has decided to leave TAPPS for TCAF. That cuts D2 down to possibly two teams ... Heath Fulton and Dallas Tyler Street. McKinney Cornerstone and Killeen Memorial are eligible to play in that district, but did not compete in 2011.

If Parkview is on your schedule, you might want to confirm if you still have a game. From my reading of the TCAF district schedule, they have district games on Sept. 16, 23, 30, Oct. 7, 14 & 28 (playoffs start week 10 in that league). So you may be out of a game most of those dates.

And folks, if you decide to switch leagues, please have the common decency to call your current league and current district teams and let them know. I know for a fact in this case it was not done. Which is why, in my humble estimation, TAPPS now will not consider a school for reinstatement for about four years after making a switch -- and I know at least one school that got buyers remorse, applied to return to TAPPS, and was reminded of that provision.
 
Im not real sure where your information came from but we informed TAPPS and District President as well as our schools in former district.

Also, Im not real sure why this was thrown out there. Did you call Coach Crenshaw and confirm this information with him before you blasted him and his program on these message boards? I got no issue with a general information post, but to call out Coach Crenshaw and his program out like that, don't really think your post was called for or accurate.
 
cowboy91":qa9asdl4 said:
Im not real sure where your information came from but we informed TAPPS and District President as well as our schools in former district.

Also, Im not real sure why this was thrown out there. Did you call Coach Crenshaw and confirm this information with him before you blasted him and his program on these message boards? I got no issue with a general information post, but to call out Coach Crenshaw and his program out like that, don't really think your post was called for or accurate.
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I know for a fact that TAPPS did not know that Parkview had withdrawn until someone from the TAPPS office contacted them last week for confirmation. And although I'm picking on Parkview, it is not the first school that bailed out on TAPPS for TCAF and didn't bother to tell anyone.

I stand by my remarks.
 
So where does this leave D2? Will Tapps leave it as a two team district or will they dissolve it and put the two remaining teams in another district? Two teams is not enough teams to make up a district, however, making them go to D1 or D3 would be too much travel for all schools involved. I hope they (Tapps) can actively recruit other schools to join D2.
On another note, why are the schools in the North Texas area leaving Tapps to join TCAF or just choosing TCAF over TAPPS altogther? I would really like to know the pros and cons for each league.
Thanks, Coach Davis
 
Lifegatesports,

Come on man really! Am I the only one besides all the people at Waco Parkview, who want to say to you, shut the heck up and mind your own business!!!! You are the most annoying, cocky, arrogant, person I've ever heard on here, trust me I went to the sources and checked, and also sent out my spies to check and we all came back with the same conclusion you are a butt!!!! I'm sure I can speak for the people who you irritate and call out on here falsely, when we say "It's a thing of mind over matter, they don't mind cause you don't matter!" Be careful when you ASSUME things, you know what that makes you and me, well just you really. Next time try talking to the school and the coaches of the school you call out, before accusing them of things, you really don't know about! Peace!!!
 
McKinney Cornerstone and Killeen Memorial's requests for reinstatement to the district were both approved, so there will be 4 teams in that district. Both of these teams had withdrawn due to low numbers/very young players. It should be a decent district. Tyler Street is always strong. Fulton lost a lot of seniors, but has good athletes. Cornerstone was a new program last year, but should be decent. Killeen has a pretty young, athletic team.
The district will now be:
Dallas - Tyler Street
Heath - Fulton
McKinney - Cornerstone
Killeen - Memorial
 
disko":2bxpn9ao said:
Lifegatesports,

Come on man really! Am I the only one besides all the people at Waco Parkview, who want to say to you, shut the heck up and mind your own business!!!! You are the most annoying, cocky, arrogant, person I've ever heard on here, trust me I went to the sources and checked, and also sent out my spies to check and we all came back with the same conclusion you are a butt!!!! I'm sure I can speak for the people who you irritate and call out on here falsely, when we say "It's a thing of mind over matter, they don't mind cause you don't matter!" Be careful when you ASSUME things, you know what that makes you and me, well just you really. Next time try talking to the school and the coaches of the school you call out, before accusing them of things, you really don't know about! Peace!!!
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Disko, I agree with a lot of your post, but I do want to say it doesnt really matter what is said on here. He is welcome to his opinion and I am welcome to mine. I talked to Coach Crenshaw personally as soon as I saw this. He informed me he talked to TAPPS and to Coach Favors from Tyler Street when the decision was approved by our school board. So all it is, is a battle of what I say versus what he says. Any honestly it's not even worth it. We tried to fulfill our obligations to those schools in our former district and many of them didnt want to play us. Our decision to move to TCAF was a decision we felt was best for our school and we made that move. We spent several hours discussing the pros and cons and going back and forth in our decision to stay or go. There will be some who like it and other who don't and call us out for it. It is what it is. There may be a day when we rejoin TAPPS in the future and we may not. We may love this league and opportunity the Lord has given our school. We look forward to see what God has for Parkview and its future.
 
cowboy- what exactly were the pros and cons for leaving tapps and joining tcaf? i am just wondering what one league offers that the other league doesn't. is it less travel, competition, christian schools only? just wondering, what can you let us know.
 
wow. how involved are you with parkview? i'm about 99% certain they don't have a 'school board'. The pastor and the assistant pastor don't count as a school board. You just cast shade all over your own credibility
 
disko":30lt13p1 said:
Lifegatesports,

Come on man really! Am I the only one besides all the people at Waco Parkview, who want to say to you, shut the heck up and mind your own business!!!! You are the most annoying, cocky, arrogant, person I've ever heard on here, trust me I went to the sources and checked, and also sent out my spies to check and we all came back with the same conclusion you are a butt!!!! I'm sure I can speak for the people who you irritate and call out on here falsely, when we say "It's a thing of mind over matter, they don't mind cause you don't matter!" Be careful when you ASSUME things, you know what that makes you and me, well just you really. Next time try talking to the school and the coaches of the school you call out, before accusing them of things, you really don't know about! Peace!!!
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the nice things you said about me.

I still stand by my story. TAPPS did not know that Parkview was leaving until TAPPS called them for confirmation. And I trust that source.

Best wishes for Parkview as they move to a new league. But as an old friend of mine once told me, be careful when the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Most of the time it's because of the fertilizer.
 
Okay, I guess I should be serious for a few moments.

TCAF has been fairly successful in starting off their high school league. They built a very successful junior high league into a decent league for smaller schools in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and brought in a number of schools from TAPPS as well as encouraged a number of new schools to come from their junior high league to their high school league.

Back about eight or nine years ago, TAPPS discontinued their home school participation program. It did upset a number of smaller schools, some of which used home schoolers to help out when their numbers were low (and some did use it for competitive reasons). Additionally, TAPPS had a reputation, not totally unearned, of not listening to the smaller schools and focusing on the larger schools (3A and up). I believe that attitude has changed, but those perceptions remain with some folks.

The leadership of TAPPS should take a little heat for not being responsive to its membership as TCAF began to form. There are a whole lot of TAPPS board members in the DFW area and as far as I know, nobody bothered to call or visit any of these schools and find out why they were leaving ... nor did they contact key people at other 1A/2A schools that may have helped keep some of these folks in the league.

TAPPS also has an aversion to actively soliciting new members -- for example, if I'm the administrator of Podunk Christian Academy, a nice little PK-8 school, but we decide that we're ready to start high school, TAPPS is not going to contact me and invite me to consider membership but wait for me to pick up the phone and ask. TCAF, from what I understand, is actively pursuing new members (both "switchers" and new high schools). More power to them for doing that.

I was in the selling business long enough to understand that if you make sales calls, sooner or later, you might sell something. If you sit around the house waiting for somebody to call you, it might happen (hey, it did to me a few times), but I wouldn't want to make that a habit (trust me, I've tried).

There have been a couple schools that have left TCAF for T-CAL (Tyler Kings Academy and El Paso Faith Christian come to mind; Flower Mound Coram Deo made the move to TAPPS a year or two after TCAF started their high school league ) and I've received notes from folks at some of the TCAF schools saying that they felt they had a better level of competition in TAPPS than TCAF. TAPPS has made it harder for schools to switch back (let's talk about that in a moment). But over time, more schools take care of that problem. With the exception of now two West Texas schools (Midland Trinity and El Paso Immanuel Christian), TCAF remains basically a DFW based league.

Here's where I get really hot and bothered. Any league: TAPPS, TCAF, T-CAL; or a district is a PARTNERSHIP. A bunch of teams get together (or are put together) to provide reliable competition and help fill each other school's sports schedules. While TCAF and T-CAL have less formal district policies; TAPPS does and goes through a re-districting process every two years much like our public school friends.

When a school "bails" on its committments to its league and district by switching leagues during the middle of the district cycle, you are -- in my book -- backing out of your committment to the schools in your league and district. The message you send to me as a school that is in your district is, "Hey pal, we're jumping the fence and really don't give a rat's back end that we now are messing up what we agreed to do when we formed our district." Districts are like in-laws; we can fight among each other, but we are still there for each other.

Yes, a school may find it necessary to change leagues. That's a decision that each school has to make on its own. But the time to make that change is prior to the redistricting process.

For example, in this instance, if Parkview Christian Academy informed TAPPS and its fellow district schools that they had decided to join TCAF effective the start of the 2012-2013 school year (which is the start of the next district cycle), I could bellow and huff and puff all I want. But they would have done it in a way that respects and honors the committments they had made to all the other schools in their current league.

TAPPS made a difficult decision (but one I respect) that they will not consider an application for reinstatement from a school for at least two full districting cycles (for example, if Parkview wanted to come back to TAPPS, they would not be eligible until the 2016-2017 school year). I know of at least one school who made a decision to move to another league and a year later asked TAPPS for reinstatement. They were reminded of this provision and their application was not accepted. I might have gone a little farther and actually required that other TAPPS schools could not compete against a school who withdrew from the league during a district cycle in ANY SPORT. But that's probably because I'm a mean, spiteful guy.

Okay, my head hurts. Being serious is hard work.
 
I have been involved in and around the CSAF part of the TCAF league and watched as they formed the high school part of their organization several years ago. I can tell you they have outstanding leadership who truly care about small school issues and want to address them. I'm not an advocate for TCAF. As a matter of fact I too have talked openly about the reasons I think it's wrong for these schools to bail and form another league. This, in my opinion, is the biggest reason why public schools have little to no respect for our competitiveness. However saying that, TCAF and its leaders have done a great job emphasizing the "pros" of their organization such:
  • Less travel time
  • Home school allowances
  • No maximum numbers to stay sixman
  • And yes less restrictions or enforcement of certain organizational rules.

As far as TAPPS making changes for the sixman community, I sat in a summer meeting hosted by TAPPS a few years ago about six man football where I and others specifically brought up this issue and how it was a "big deal" here in the Metroplex. John you were there and you know we discussed extensively the issues that TAPPS faces with smaller schools and their feeling of no representation at the state level. I will say the only thing I've seen they did in response was create a regulation referenced above about not allowing schools to reenter for two cycles. Let me know if there were any other positive things that came from that meeting. I still personally believe we are NOT represented fairly at the state level. We don't have a TAPPS sponsored all star game, we didn't get air time for our State finals like all the other 11-man programs, and there seems to be no push to change that and other issues.

We are the last rung of the ladder, however over at TCAF, sixman is the king of the hill. See the issue? They have no crowded field football. They are talking about it though!

As far as not playing them, easy for the southern folk to say. Over 3/4 of the metroplex sixman schools are now TCAF. We don't currently play but one TCAF school, however, that's ONLY because we are in a push to increase our enrollment and move to crowded field over the next few years. For schools who are not there yet or will never be, not playing TCAF schools would entail a 75-200 mile drive for non district games and that's not realistic.

Most of these teams are not interested in the "competition of TAPPS." When you have 6-9 boys wanting to play or you have one year to do something big because of a spike in talent, college recruiting, quality of competition, etc. is not high on the radar for a school. They just want a even chance at some success with their program.

I have some ideas that are not appropriate to discuss on this forum about what TAPPS could do, however, unless something is done, TAPPS will continue to struggle with the 1-2A ranks because there is no focus on it.

It's basic business people. And if we aren't careful we will go by way of IBM. They told Bill to take the software because they are going to focus on the real money maker, the hardware. That worked out well for them, didn't it.

Coach Harris
I will state again that I'm a TAPPS supporter and believe that if you want the best competition and the best chance for long term growth, TAPPS is the road. I'm in the minority it seems in the Metroplex.
 
Kevin ... Yep, we were both there.

Here's something that happened positively for six man ... TAPPS did increase the number for six-man to the same level as D1 crowded field (69 boys) and it allowed a number of schools who had been playing independent to return to district play.

As you so correctly mention, TCAF has been proactive in sending its message. TAPPS has not, and it's something I seriously have an issue with. However, if the TAPPS leadership isn't taking that role, maybe some of the schools in that area need to step up. Part of that is institutional with TAPPS; it could change, but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But I've seen some change -- not as fast as I'd like, but it is moving. Slowly, but moving.

TAPPS does have the responsibility of working with schools of all sizes; I think you'll see as schools in TCAF grow they are going to have to make the choice (as Coram Deo did) to try and build a larger school operation (ie, crowded field football) on their own or move to an established league. There are lots of small schools (100 or so HS kids or less) and a lot easier to do that than to establish a league of schools with 200-500 kids. Most folks are going to realize that in the larger school part of the business, it's easier not to reinvent the wheel.

TCAF still has not shown a serious ability to grow outside the DFW metroplex; if and when that happens, there could be some issues for TAPPS. I hope the folks in leadership (and by leadership, I mean more than the paid staff) understand that before it happens. While the big schools are the big dogs in the organization, a lot of the revenue (dues, fees) come from the 1A/2A schools. It's not uncommon for a 1A or 2A school to pay as much in dues and event fees as some of the 4A/5A schools (which can run around $1000 a year).

And we haven't even started talking about T-CAL. I have folks I love and respect in that group as well -- they actually have more sixman teams than TCAF; many of which (home schools, charter schools that have not affiliated with UIL) would not be eligible for membership in either TAPPS or TCAF. They've started moving into the DFW area as well. Now my head really hurts.
 
John,

I will say this, not being in the AD role in a few years, I've not been part of any meetings or discussions from TAPPS in reference to this issue. However, being outside the zone of influence of Salado, there IS a disconnect with schools in the north.

Let's have a meeting of some of that "leadership" in the metroplex with TAPPS and get our marketing information on the same page....there's a thought. If you think for one minute we aren't talking to these schools, then that would be a wrong assumption. However, what exactly do we have to offer them over TCAF? What from a leadership level has changed that would make them feel wanted? Throw a bone, give a trinket, give a buy one/get one for free sale, something!!! Have a special DFW meeting/luncheon and invite all DFW schools and do some whoooing...

I said I wouldn't discuss this on this forum. So off my box.

I reiterate the insanity thing, "do what you always do and expect a different result."

Come on if you make a stand, you could be a hero of the battle or it could be your Waterloo. Either way you better have a strategy to defend your position.

Coach Harris
 
Eagles303":18imj123 said:
wow. how involved are you with parkview? i'm about 99% certain they don't have a 'school board'. The pastor and the assistant pastor don't count as a school board. You just cast shade all over your own credibility
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Well thanks for opening your mouth Eagles303, now allow me to insert your foot. My dad who is also a Deacon in the church, is on the school board. The school board is composed of deacons and they meet monthly during the deacon's meeting. Actually next Monday they will be meeting if you would like to be in attendance. And my involvement with Parkview is apparently much more than yours.

Guys, listen we made the move from TAPPS to TCAF. It was a move mainly for financials reasons. It is hard for a struggling school financially to pay the dues sometimes. I know it was a move looked down by many but you have to understand hard calls are made sometimes that people aren't going to agree with. We accept our "punishment" form TAPPS and believe me I hope we one day can come back to TAPPS. We are going to play as many TAPPS teams that will play against us because we do want to continue to have that relationship we have built with so many teams and coaches. While it may not be the most popular decision we have made, it was a decision Coach Crenshaw and the "SCHOOL BOARD" felt needed to be made at the time.
 
Cowboy 91,

Sorry for the rants. It was probably better for John and I to open another forum to discuss this issue. It's been a topic for a few years now.

Good luck in TCAF. Like I said, I'm pretty familiar with TCAF and understand most of the reasons why schools make the move. Whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant. I believe this is an issue that TAPPS needs to address. If not, they won't have to worry about the small school DFW market, at least for a few years because they won't be their problem anymore.

Have a great year and talk with you soon,

Coach Harris
Fellowship Academy
 
Coach Harris,

Not an issue. That is what this forum is for. To talk and discuss these types of things. I agree there are things to not discuss on this board. This was an issue i think that could have been handeled differently but that was not my decision. I will defend coach crenshaw and Parkview as much as I can to the end.

Like I said I think TCAF will be good for us and hopefully with some success we can grow some and get back to TAPPS. Because if we can grow as a school in number, finacially everything else will take care of itself. Like I have said on here before, this was a tough decision for us to make, but one we felt we needed to make. Good luck to you guys as well and look forward to seeing you guys this summer in the 6-on-6.
 
kharris":33q6d2ir said:
Let's have a meeting of some of that "leadership" in the metroplex with TAPPS and get our marketing information on the same page....there's a thought. If you think for one minute we aren't talking to these schools, then that would be a wrong assumption. However, what exactly do we have to offer them over TCAF? What from a leadership level has changed that would make them feel wanted? Throw a bone, give a trinket, give a buy one/get one for free sale, something!!! Have a special DFW meeting/luncheon and invite all DFW schools and do some whoooing...
Click to expand...

Great idea. I'm 250 miles to the south of DFW. This is something the DFW schools need to do. Something tells me there are some folks in TAPPS leadership, be it in Salado or elsewhere, that would entertain this option.
 
cowboy91":2sua0ith said:
We are going to play as many TAPPS teams that will play against us because we do want to continue to have that relationship we have built with so many teams and coaches. While it may not be the most popular decision we have made, it was a decision Coach Crenshaw and the "SCHOOL BOARD" felt needed to be made at the time.
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Okay, I understand things are done "for financial reasons." So TAPPS dues were too high. Maybe if the school dropped an event or two, it would save some money (the $75 event fee is probably among the cheapest part of the expenses for that sport or event).

I hate to pick on my good friends at Parkview, but I have a problem. Parkview has no problem in dumping its obligation and responsibilities to other schools in their district, schools who had already counted on playing Parkview next year -- and don't give me "they didn't want to play us"-- because, especially in football, losing one week's game doesn't mean you can easily move them to another week.

But you have no problem "to play as many TAPPS teams that will play against us." I'm sorry, but if I were in the business of scheduling at my school, it would be hard for me to schedule a team that jumped out of the league during the middle of the district cycle. If Parkview said, we're leaving at the end of the 2012 school year, then fine. You've completed your obligation to your league and districts. But you didn't.
 
Did a quick check on fees:

TCAF -- $125 per school plus $50 for each event; late fee if paid after Feb (for next year)

TAPPS -- $250 per school plus $75 for each event; due Sept. 1.
 
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