Large teams and how some think they should go 11

C

Coltsfan400

11-man fan
I have recently been seeing a large number of post accusing teams with 25+ kids that it is not right for the them to be allowed to play six man and that they should go to eleven man. I just wanted to clarify that having a large number of players doesn't necessarily mean they should be playing eleven man. You could have 45 players but if they are all under 200 lbs its nearly impossible to be successful at most levels of eleven man. It's not always the case but to be at all successful in eleven man you should have a good 8-10 220lbs+ players to play O-line and D-line. I guess my point is its not always how many players you have, but their height and weight that matters when it comes to which variation they should play, 11 man or 6 man. So what do ya'll think? When should be the appropriate time to consider switching to eleven man for organizations? All opinions welcome!
 
In my humble opinion, any school that chooses to play six man football, no matter how many players they have is good for six man football. I dont think parents, or coaches, or administrators would tolerate having more than a coachable amount of kids on 1 team, but nothing that I have seen says that schools couldnt have more than 1 team. I have noticed a limited amount of teams available in the district that I am familiar with. Games seem to be forfeited alot because of lack of players available on some teams. As long as there is a rating system in place for district, and division, ( more teams would help this become easier I think, at least short term )
Maybe this would lead to less mercy rule games being called at half time. I am new to six man football, so I could be way off base. I am just reacting to what I have seen so far.
 
I have been on both sides of the coin. In the late 90's I was with an 11man team from 96-98, we had 19 players at the most and only 2or 3 went over 220lbs. out smallest kid was 110. We all know that we have to fit an offense to the talent and size we have. We went to the 11man 2A championship in 97 we were down to 13 players. We lost to St.Paul which we had beat early in the year. So I don't feel that size of players has a lot to do with it not back then any way. We ran the single wing. My thoughts are if you can get 20 kids out and the parents, coaches and players want to play 11man that is great but you must make a long term commitment. So if some years you only have 15 or 16 kids keep playing 11man. I help start an 6man team in the early 2000, we had 9 boys who never play 6man before. We were put in 2A in TAPPS this was the last year before realgnment. We played a lot ot TAPPS 2A teams or now what they call Div.1 teams with 15-20 men. I always though that those teams should have been playing 11man football. I have ask several coaches why didn't play 11man their answer was they did not want to play 9th graders in 11man with older kids. I think this is an lame excuse. The year we started the 6man team we had 4 9th graders, 2 Sr. no 11th gradersthe other 3 were 10 graders.
Makeing a large school with 20 or more players into two 6man teams I don't think would work. There would be a lot of Adm. problems in transportation, the teams would need more coaches, the fans would be split and more. I agree that it would fill the gap in a lot of districs if some schools had 2 teams , but with that many players go to 11man but make a commitment to stay at 11 man. The best example of this is the Austin regents school who started out as 6man and are now 11man and have had great success.
 
I think what your saying is that numbers do count for something in eleven main which is obviously true. The thing is though Astro that again what is clearly more important when it comes to deciding whether to be in six man or eleven man is not how many players you have, but the physical size and ability they have. It's also very clear that there are many extremely successful teams with 20+ players. I don't believe that those problems you mentioned ever occur with large teams. Some examples of great high numbers teams would be SA FEAST or Tomball Homeschool and I believe Waco Live Oak is also a fairly large team. And that's just some of the ones I can name from TCAL, not to mention all the other divisional teams.
 
Having to field 9th graders against seniors is not a lame excuse for not wanting to go 11-man from 6-man. In fact, I think if in doing an analysis to determine what your program would look like, you know you will have to regularly play a good number of 9th and 10th graders, you should probably not move up (if you have a choice). Having 25 players presumes a school would have about 6 boys per class out for football. It seems to me that having a JV team of 12 9h and 10th graders, where the younger boys get to play against other 9th and 10th graders, is a much better situation than putting them in games against young men who can often physically dominate them. Also, your varsity team is made up predominantly, or entirely, of juniors and seniors, and you have the ability to pull up the best from your JV to fill holes from injury or grades. Compare this structure of a strong "program" to that which has to rely on getting every boy it can out for football just to make a weaker program.
 
As the six-man purists on board will know, UIL had a 75 enrollment cap for years; now at 99.9 or 100 enrollment.

TAPPS has struggled with this as well, this year walking away from that cap and instead pushing it up to something like 67-69 boys enrollment (the same limit as Div IV 11 man boys). This was to allow about six or eight schools with enrollments just over 50 boys that were playing independently to play in district. It's worked out pretty well ... and from what I've seen, those schools aren't exactly wiping up the field with their opponents.

There are a number of schools, private and public, with enrollments under the sixman numbers who are able to field 11 man (aka "crowded field football") teams. Shiner St. Paul Catholic, down the road from us about 60 miles or so, has a TOTAL enrollment of something like 76 and there isn't talk from there about playing sixman anytime soon. UIL Runge HS has had some problems, even playing independent for a couple years, but they remain UIL 1A 11 man and I hear no talk about moving.

But let's remember what the purpose of sixman footbal was meant to be -- to allow kids in schools too small to field an 11 man team to play competitive, tackle football. The day I see a school (or homeschool group) suiting up 50 kids for a sixman game is the day I don't play that team.

It's kinda like the story that kept Converse Judson from spliting up their high school. At least two or three bond elections failed because folks worried that it would dilute the football talent at Judson HS. I joked that Judson needed to start a UIL 5A Six Man division and that would solve the problem. They finally did vote in the new school, Wagner, and there has been some dilution, but not enough to keep both teams from doing pretty decently. By the way, Judson ISD is now having a bond election and may build a third high school. My bet is the bond loses.

Honestly, if you can reliably bring out 30 boys (grades 9-12) on a year-in-year out basis, I believe you seriously should be looking at playing the 11 man game. But the change shouldn't be something you make lightly. I know of some schools (Austin Regents being the textbook on the move; Dallas Covenant looking to make the next step in the next year or two) who chart out the way they will transition from 6 to 11 man. Often, this is done by coaches attending some of the better 11 man football coaching clinics (and there are boatloads of them) and starting at the middle school or junior high level before playing a varsity schedule.

I've talked with the FEAST folks in the past (several years ago) and asked them why they chose 6 man over 11 man ball; this is a group that could reasonably be expected to turn out numbers large enough for 11 man (I think they get 100+ high school boys out for basketball and compete at the UIL 4A/5A level in many sports, including track, cross country and basketball). I was told they did not think they could get a schedule in 11 man ball.

As far as I know, there may be one or two home school 11 man teams in the state (I think there is one in Dallas, another in suburban Houston but that one could be at a middle school or subvarsity level).
 
Well GSB, I think you would get a lot of augurments about 9th graders playin against 12 graders. Some of the small schools could not play 11 man without 9th graders,St Paul which has been mention is one of them. What is the difference when 9th graders play 6man, none, 6man in my opinion is more vilolent then 11man. More open field tackles going full speed, more cut blocks in the open field (which I wish 6man would stop) a lot of blind side hits when teams are running the spread. Sure at the 3-5A in UIL they have enought to field 9 grade, JV and varisty, so it is hard for me tounderstand that a coach with 20 are more kids will say I don't want to play 11 man because I don't want to get my 9th grades hurt. Hight Point best player in my opinionis a 9th grader plays both ways. I seen a team the other night that has only 9 and 10 graders play a team that had 5 srs on it. No one was hurt. 11 man does cost more but you can plan for the expenses tha it will cost.Austin R made their field 11man before it started football. they were also playing 11man Jr. High while they were playing 6man. Teams that ran from TAPPS due to the enrollment rule, I just don't understand. Also I never did understand at one time that TCAL wanted to play only Christian teams, (please lets don't get into this agurment) because of teams like DA and other Winson and several other schools.
 
The game is made for small enrollment schools. If you are going over 100 that is definately enough to play 6man. UIL has spoken of making the enrollment to 125 and that will be a sad day. 6man is not a game to play as a cop out from 11man just because it is some bad years or our players aren't the right size. It's almost a slap in the face to Stephen Epler to see schools with 130 or so kids playing 6man, when our game was to provide football for schools that normally couldn't because of LACK OF NUMBERS, not lack of participation.
 
Size has nothing to do with playing 11man I watched the 2006 Mccamey Badgers go all the way to the State championship with a 170 pound center and only had maybe 3 over 220 the rest 185 or less lots of teams just look for excuses for why they should be in 6man when it comes down to how bad do the players want it
 
wow, lots of different opinions on this post. Size doesnt always matter. Speed comes first. Beef after that. I always drafted linebackers and running backs at any age, and always had success that way. I get "Astros" point that more than one varsity team at any school could be a logistics problem, and I would think I agree with any UIL ruling on a specific enrollment numer, as long as it counts only eligible players per team. This is probably why I am enjoying six man football so much. thanks for the info.
 
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