bigmanoncampus(not)
11-man fan
http://tapps.net/PDF/All-State/All-Stat ... 011-12.pdf
here is the tapps all state list.
pretty fair i'd say.
here is the tapps all state list.
pretty fair i'd say.
All-State
- Thread starter bigmanoncampus(not)
- Start date
“pretty fair i'd say.”
I wouldn’t!!!! No Happy Hill players on the first team offense. Are you kidding me?!
And nearly half of the first team defense is from Pine Drive. If their defense was so dominating why weren’t they playing at Moody?
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling out players or even picking on teams. It just seems that some coaches, most likely the third, fourth or fifth placed teams in some districts, don’t get the big picture. Just because you have a go-to guy that has tons of yards, gets most of your touches and is your team leader in everything, doesn’t mean he’s an All-State caliber player. He is your “stud” because that’s all you got. Think of it this way….Would he be a significant player on, let’s say, your District Champion team? In most cases, I don’t think so. And going to the stats to support your “stud” doesn’t hold water, either. If you constantly play “Our Lady of the Perpetually Blind and Undernourished” (thanks lifegate), of course you will have great stats. Play a challenging schedule to stretch your team and prepare them to play in November and December. And before you go with the “This guy is the “real deal!” excuse, the LaJordan Wilkerson/Tyler Ethredge/Robert Ramsay’s of the world don’t come along every season.
No, I don’t have a solution, other than for some coaches to get a clue. OK, rant over.
I wouldn’t!!!! No Happy Hill players on the first team offense. Are you kidding me?!
And nearly half of the first team defense is from Pine Drive. If their defense was so dominating why weren’t they playing at Moody?
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling out players or even picking on teams. It just seems that some coaches, most likely the third, fourth or fifth placed teams in some districts, don’t get the big picture. Just because you have a go-to guy that has tons of yards, gets most of your touches and is your team leader in everything, doesn’t mean he’s an All-State caliber player. He is your “stud” because that’s all you got. Think of it this way….Would he be a significant player on, let’s say, your District Champion team? In most cases, I don’t think so. And going to the stats to support your “stud” doesn’t hold water, either. If you constantly play “Our Lady of the Perpetually Blind and Undernourished” (thanks lifegate), of course you will have great stats. Play a challenging schedule to stretch your team and prepare them to play in November and December. And before you go with the “This guy is the “real deal!” excuse, the LaJordan Wilkerson/Tyler Ethredge/Robert Ramsay’s of the world don’t come along every season.
No, I don’t have a solution, other than for some coaches to get a clue. OK, rant over.
freeagent
Six-man pro
I was wondering when we'd get the griping about the all state teams.
I think TAPPS does post each district's all-district selections on line. I think the answer to why Happy Hill wasn't as well represented on all-state might be found there. I haven't checked if those lists are online yet, so what follows is my supposition (and take it for what you've paid me to tell it to you...nothing).
If kids from other schools (remember, Notre Dame and Victory Life also were tri-champions of that district) were ranked BY THEIR COACHES ahead of Happy Hill, the all-state selection committee had to consider those prior choices BEFORE the Happy Hill kid could have been considered. And when you have three teams at the top instead of a nobody-can-deny-they-were-the-best-team situation (which we had with Fredericksburg Heritage and D4 had with Dickinson Pine Drive), it's gonna be tough to make those selections, especially in football where it is by position.
That's the rule that TAPPS instructs its districts and all-state selection committee to work under.
If the district didn't consider that, then they put their kids at a disadvantage. But I have to tell you, that in a district where three teams all were tied for the district crown, it's not easy to predict who makes the finals. Victory Life lost to Pine Drive and Heritage handled Notre Dame and Happy Hill pretty well. An upset (like the Pine Drive loss to Happy Hill) all of a sudden makes things look much different on December 3rd than it did in early November when the all-district teams were chosen BASED ON DISTRICT GAMES.
Let me give you a couple instances in other sports (football does have selections by position as opposed to basketball and volleyball, where athletes are chosen without regard to position). We always stopped our all-district selection process after 5 or 6 kids and asked each other, is this the BEST order to get the MOST kids from our district on all-state. For example, if you put a kid from an 0-12 team as your third selection for all-district, chances are you are only going to get two kids on all-state teams -- the third kid will be a "block" unless you can make a very, very, very convincing case why that kid was as good as you think he was. And if you can, friend, I can guarantee you that you should be doing something else for a living, because anyone who can "sell" that a kid on a 0-12 small private school team is all-state material has powers of persuasion that can make a lot more money than a small private school can afford to pay.
The kid can still be all-district; traditionally, the first ranked kid is the District MVP. The rest of them can be announced unranked with the ONLY place rankings mean anything is the all-state meeting. Remember the old joke: What do you call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school? Answer: Doctor. Same holds true here. If you're #2 or #12, you're still all-district.
Several years ago, I sat in on an all-state volleyball meeting. One district sent its champion to the state finals, falling in the title game. However, the district decided that each school needed to have one kid on the first team all-district before a second kid from that school could be considered. So, the committee sits and chooses the #1 kid (from the runnerup school) on first team and maybe the #2 kid made second team. But the 3-4-5 ranked selections were pretty weak and there were better players from other districts. #6 was a very good player from the runnerup school and deserved first or second team honors. If the district had re-ordered its selections, it's probable that she and at least one or two kids could have made first or second team. If my feeble memory works right, I think the committee found a way to put those three kids on honorable mention so that the next kid got at least honorable mention. But she really deserved first or second team honors. That stinks.
Okay, so let's say that the committee says those doofuses over in East Bug Tussle Christian's district are fools and we'll fix their problem. Well, there was a soccer all-state committee that tried that a few years back. All of them were publicly reprimanded for their violation of the rule.
In both cases, the folks that should have been reprimanded are the idjits in the district committee who fought like cats and dogs so that somebody could one-up someone they couldn't do on the playing field. My rule on districts is that you can fight like family during the season, but when it comes to getting the most of your kids on all-state, you had better make up and be a good family together, because you can do most of your damage and minimize your all-state chances at that all-district meeting.
I think TAPPS does post each district's all-district selections on line. I think the answer to why Happy Hill wasn't as well represented on all-state might be found there. I haven't checked if those lists are online yet, so what follows is my supposition (and take it for what you've paid me to tell it to you...nothing).
If kids from other schools (remember, Notre Dame and Victory Life also were tri-champions of that district) were ranked BY THEIR COACHES ahead of Happy Hill, the all-state selection committee had to consider those prior choices BEFORE the Happy Hill kid could have been considered. And when you have three teams at the top instead of a nobody-can-deny-they-were-the-best-team situation (which we had with Fredericksburg Heritage and D4 had with Dickinson Pine Drive), it's gonna be tough to make those selections, especially in football where it is by position.
That's the rule that TAPPS instructs its districts and all-state selection committee to work under.
If the district didn't consider that, then they put their kids at a disadvantage. But I have to tell you, that in a district where three teams all were tied for the district crown, it's not easy to predict who makes the finals. Victory Life lost to Pine Drive and Heritage handled Notre Dame and Happy Hill pretty well. An upset (like the Pine Drive loss to Happy Hill) all of a sudden makes things look much different on December 3rd than it did in early November when the all-district teams were chosen BASED ON DISTRICT GAMES.
Let me give you a couple instances in other sports (football does have selections by position as opposed to basketball and volleyball, where athletes are chosen without regard to position). We always stopped our all-district selection process after 5 or 6 kids and asked each other, is this the BEST order to get the MOST kids from our district on all-state. For example, if you put a kid from an 0-12 team as your third selection for all-district, chances are you are only going to get two kids on all-state teams -- the third kid will be a "block" unless you can make a very, very, very convincing case why that kid was as good as you think he was. And if you can, friend, I can guarantee you that you should be doing something else for a living, because anyone who can "sell" that a kid on a 0-12 small private school team is all-state material has powers of persuasion that can make a lot more money than a small private school can afford to pay.
The kid can still be all-district; traditionally, the first ranked kid is the District MVP. The rest of them can be announced unranked with the ONLY place rankings mean anything is the all-state meeting. Remember the old joke: What do you call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school? Answer: Doctor. Same holds true here. If you're #2 or #12, you're still all-district.
Several years ago, I sat in on an all-state volleyball meeting. One district sent its champion to the state finals, falling in the title game. However, the district decided that each school needed to have one kid on the first team all-district before a second kid from that school could be considered. So, the committee sits and chooses the #1 kid (from the runnerup school) on first team and maybe the #2 kid made second team. But the 3-4-5 ranked selections were pretty weak and there were better players from other districts. #6 was a very good player from the runnerup school and deserved first or second team honors. If the district had re-ordered its selections, it's probable that she and at least one or two kids could have made first or second team. If my feeble memory works right, I think the committee found a way to put those three kids on honorable mention so that the next kid got at least honorable mention. But she really deserved first or second team honors. That stinks.
Okay, so let's say that the committee says those doofuses over in East Bug Tussle Christian's district are fools and we'll fix their problem. Well, there was a soccer all-state committee that tried that a few years back. All of them were publicly reprimanded for their violation of the rule.
In both cases, the folks that should have been reprimanded are the idjits in the district committee who fought like cats and dogs so that somebody could one-up someone they couldn't do on the playing field. My rule on districts is that you can fight like family during the season, but when it comes to getting the most of your kids on all-state, you had better make up and be a good family together, because you can do most of your damage and minimize your all-state chances at that all-district meeting.
bigmanoncampus(not)
11-man fan
i still maintain that its pretty fair.
i wouldnt be opposed to an all tournament team out of the final 4 schools like in basketball.
Champion gets 4 regardless of position,
Runner up gets 3,
Semi-finalists get 2 each.
i wouldnt be opposed to an all tournament team out of the final 4 schools like in basketball.
Champion gets 4 regardless of position,
Runner up gets 3,
Semi-finalists get 2 each.
Pup,
to answer your question about why Pine Drive wasn't playing in Moody vs. Fredericksburg Heritage.
Well,
I was at the game when pdcs played Granbury Happy Hill and I can sum the answer up in TWO WORDS....
CHRISTIAN STOKES
vs. Happy Hill,
Pine Drive had to rush (spread rush) two or three smaller (in weight) kids at happy hill.
I'm guessing but I think the Stokes kid out weighed the pd spread rushers by 55lbs..
He did not play vs. Brownwood Victory Life nor did he play against Granbury Happy Hill..
Neither of these teams would've scored over 25 points if he plays..
Saw the kid play 4x... HE WAS BY-FAR THE BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN TAPPS DIV. II..
If you look at Pine Drive schedule (scores)..
I believe he missed the Waco Live Oak game (gave up 60 plus)..
He missed the last two playoff games (gave up 36 & 61)
Now look at the other games.. NO ONE SCORED OVER 32 pts vs. them OR SHOULD I SAY VS. CHRISTIAN STOKES & #14 (Bond I think is his name)
I was/am a Living Stones follower (not fan) but I will tell ya this..
Pine Drive had a very good and stingy defense.
These young men were VERY WORTHY of these awards..
ya know anytime you can hold Brownwood Victory Life to 36 points (#8), YOUR DEFENSE MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT..
and that was without the stokes kid
to answer your question about why Pine Drive wasn't playing in Moody vs. Fredericksburg Heritage.
Well,
I was at the game when pdcs played Granbury Happy Hill and I can sum the answer up in TWO WORDS....
CHRISTIAN STOKES
vs. Happy Hill,
Pine Drive had to rush (spread rush) two or three smaller (in weight) kids at happy hill.
I'm guessing but I think the Stokes kid out weighed the pd spread rushers by 55lbs..
He did not play vs. Brownwood Victory Life nor did he play against Granbury Happy Hill..
Neither of these teams would've scored over 25 points if he plays..
Saw the kid play 4x... HE WAS BY-FAR THE BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN TAPPS DIV. II..
If you look at Pine Drive schedule (scores)..
I believe he missed the Waco Live Oak game (gave up 60 plus)..
He missed the last two playoff games (gave up 36 & 61)
Now look at the other games.. NO ONE SCORED OVER 32 pts vs. them OR SHOULD I SAY VS. CHRISTIAN STOKES & #14 (Bond I think is his name)
I was/am a Living Stones follower (not fan) but I will tell ya this..
Pine Drive had a very good and stingy defense.
These young men were VERY WORTHY of these awards..
ya know anytime you can hold Brownwood Victory Life to 36 points (#8), YOUR DEFENSE MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT..
and that was without the stokes kid
I see..... There's no denying that one person can make a heap of difference in sixman. Too bad Christian wasn't able to play in the playoff games. Injuries? Grades? Discipline?
Being a believer in "defense wins championships", here are some numbers to consider:
Freddy- 276 points against this season, 19.2 points per game.
Alvin- 299 points against, 23 points per game.
Pine Drive- 310 points against, 22.1 points per game.
Boerne Geneva- 316 points against, 28.7 points per game.
Happy Hill- 513!!! points against, 36.6 points per game.
By the numbers, it does look like Pine Drive had a good defense. However, not good enough at the right time. But, going back to my original argument, I believe that Freddy got shafted at the All-State level. How can a team that gave up the fewest total points this season, had the lowest points against per game, and had only 52 points scored against them in the playoffs have only three players on the first team All-State defense team? Oh wait! Maybe it's because some of the coaches in District 3 don't understand the process and that when there is one dominant team, who is head and shoulders above everyone else, it must mean they are good and your team isn't so good. Maybe, just maybe, the dominant team gets the nod this year because they are "that" good. And maybe, your stud or two, get second team All-District because you got handled by the number one team. And maybe, that might allow the number one team to represent better at the All-State level should they be fortunate enough to play in December. I think the coaches in District 4 have a clue, thus allowing 5(!) Pine Drive players to be selected first team All-State. OK, rant over. I promise.
Being a believer in "defense wins championships", here are some numbers to consider:
Freddy- 276 points against this season, 19.2 points per game.
Alvin- 299 points against, 23 points per game.
Pine Drive- 310 points against, 22.1 points per game.
Boerne Geneva- 316 points against, 28.7 points per game.
Happy Hill- 513!!! points against, 36.6 points per game.
By the numbers, it does look like Pine Drive had a good defense. However, not good enough at the right time. But, going back to my original argument, I believe that Freddy got shafted at the All-State level. How can a team that gave up the fewest total points this season, had the lowest points against per game, and had only 52 points scored against them in the playoffs have only three players on the first team All-State defense team? Oh wait! Maybe it's because some of the coaches in District 3 don't understand the process and that when there is one dominant team, who is head and shoulders above everyone else, it must mean they are good and your team isn't so good. Maybe, just maybe, the dominant team gets the nod this year because they are "that" good. And maybe, your stud or two, get second team All-District because you got handled by the number one team. And maybe, that might allow the number one team to represent better at the All-State level should they be fortunate enough to play in December. I think the coaches in District 4 have a clue, thus allowing 5(!) Pine Drive players to be selected first team All-State. OK, rant over. I promise.
Pup, you could not be more wrong.
Heritage had 6 players on the 1st team all-district defense team, a fact which is available on the TAPPS website. Our district understands very well how the all-district and all-state system works and honestly I believe is unusual in how much respect each team has for the team most likely to go deepest in the playoffs in that process. All of the Heritage first-team all-district defensive players had exactly the same chance to make all-state as the Pine Drive players; and any decision as to who would be selected was made by the representatives at the all-state meeting. While I was not at the meeting, I would imagine the distribution of defensive all-state selections had more to do with the graciousness of the Heritage coach than any injustice. I understand you may be just a pup, but before you start calling out a group of coaches with whom you have no personal relationship, you may want to learn a bit more about the all-state and all-district selection processes that these coaches have been participating in for years.
Heritage had 6 players on the 1st team all-district defense team, a fact which is available on the TAPPS website. Our district understands very well how the all-district and all-state system works and honestly I believe is unusual in how much respect each team has for the team most likely to go deepest in the playoffs in that process. All of the Heritage first-team all-district defensive players had exactly the same chance to make all-state as the Pine Drive players; and any decision as to who would be selected was made by the representatives at the all-state meeting. While I was not at the meeting, I would imagine the distribution of defensive all-state selections had more to do with the graciousness of the Heritage coach than any injustice. I understand you may be just a pup, but before you start calling out a group of coaches with whom you have no personal relationship, you may want to learn a bit more about the all-state and all-district selection processes that these coaches have been participating in for years.
freeagent
Six-man pro
GSB":2wusua6y said:
Scott, I'm glad you took the diplomatic approach. I might have been a real meanie and put the pup on Double Secret Probation.
One thing to think about -- D3 vs D4. D3 had six teams, two of which didn't finish their season and played only a couple district games (Remember, all district is based on distict game performance only). D4 had seven teams complete the season, and if you look at games, Geneva didn't do too badly against Heritage considering most of their opponents were in the locker room when 40 minutes was done (and knowing the graciousness of the Heritage coach, some of those games were extended through said graciousness, although it might more be like the cat playing around with the mouse before he swallows said mouse).
Therefore, when the all-district time came around, I've got to think that Pine Drive had a lot more chances to score on all district than they would if there were 7 teams who played a full season. I can tell you when we had four teams in our district and went 10-0, we got more on all-district than when we went 10-0 in a seven team district.
Heritage had the first nominee in each of the three defensive positions (DL, LB, DB) ... they didn't have the all-district punter, but hey, if you're district champ and 45'd most of us, you probably didn't punt much in district. They also had the #2 spot at LB, the #3 spots at DL and the #4 spot at DB. In all those cases, we as a district looked at each of those positions and determined whether we were satisfied with the order of our selections with the thinking that we wanted to put our kids in a position to maximize all state selection. The order that we selected (and is posted on the TAPPS website) is what our final decision was.
And if you probably ask anyone at Heritage, they're happy. State Champs, a lot of all-state and academic all-state recognition. But that's the way they are ... gracious winners and (and in those rare instances) just as gracious losers. Kinda something that ticks me off, but maybe that's just me.
