11 man schemes in 6 man

[CleverUsername1]

Okay, I have a question that I hope somebody with a lot of experience in 6 man can help out with. I graduated from Blum in '16 and played all 6 years of Jr and High School, so I know quite a bit about the game but probably not as much as some of you older fellers know. My question is, has any 6 man team ever used 11 man schemes or principles with any kind of success? It seems like every team in the state runs the same old tired formations T, Strong Right, Diamond spread or some slight variation of the three. It seems to me that with the wide open field and all the space available that certain 11 man schemes would work very well. I'm thinking mainly about west coast style offenses here, with lots of play action passes and short crossing routes across the middle of the field ran mainly out of pistol I with either a fullback, a tight end or a wide receiver split out towards the sideline. Of course the running game would have to be well established for this scheme to work, as we saw with the Cowboys on Sunday lol. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but it just seems like 6 man is missing the innovation that is seen at the collegiate and pro levels.

 

[Blue Bird]

If you played at Blum then you played with most inovative spread coach in recent years. Really think about what the QBs do in a west coast offense. Three step drops and timing routes. Ok that is 5 yard routes, except who is going to block any rushers? Your Qb will be planted every play. So you make the direct snaps 5 to 8 yards, you let the QB fake a handoff to a fullback(or give to keep the rushers honest)you also have the fullback block one of the rushers. You are still throwing timing routes only they are 10 to 15 yards down the field. Oh! wait! That is exactly what Bryson runs about 40% of the time. The first year that Throckmorton played sixman, they had the same coach that they had the year before in the crowded field format. I only saw them play one game in the playoffs, but they used the 11man spread offense to the point that they never gave their sb the option to run. They lost in a close game to RS. In my opinion they would have won state their first year by playing a more traditional type spread offense. They needed to give their SB the option to run.

 

[CleverUsername1]

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't aware Bryson ran that. Being from Blum and having college to go to the only teams I ever get to see are from around Hill County and the surrounding area. The fact that coach Mac was so innovative in the spread is what got me thinking about the whole 11 man schemes concept. It worked really well until Abbot figured it out in the 2015 playoffs, although honestly that was more of an issue at the quarterback position. The underneath routes were open most of the game but he wouldn't go to them until 3rd and 4th down when 5-6 yard gains don't do you any good.

 

[coachbronk]

Great question. Here in High Island, everything we do offensively has a foundation in the West Coast Offense. We run mainly out of the pistol-gun look with a wingback 1x1 off the QB. We run a twins look or what we call a Pro look with a WR split out to each side. We run a lot PAP, Boots, Screens, Quick Game, etc. In our pocket pass (3 step drop out of the gun), we have started to install more and more Air Raid principles to go with the WCO principles; we run a lot of shallow cross, mesh, etc. I think our teams have had a lot of success with the offense dating back to 2009 when we started running it at Cedar Park Summit Christian Academy.

Okay, I have a question that I hope somebody with a lot of experience in 6 man can help out with. I graduated from Blum in '16 and played all 6 years of Jr and High School, so I know quite a bit about the game but probably not as much as some of you older fellers know. My question is, has any 6 man team ever used 11 man schemes or principles with any kind of success? It seems like every team in the state runs the same old tired formations T, Strong Right, Diamond spread or some slight variation of the three. It seems to me that with the wide open field and all the space available that certain 11 man schemes would work very well. I'm thinking mainly about west coast style offenses here, with lots of play action passes and short crossing routes across the middle of the field ran mainly out of pistol I with either a fullback, a tight end or a wide receiver split out towards the sideline. Of course the running game would have to be well established for this scheme to work, as we saw with the Cowboys on Sunday lol. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but it just seems like 6 man is missing the innovation that is seen at the collegiate and pro levels.

 

[pistol]

Okay, I have a question that I hope somebody with a lot of experience in 6 man can help out with. I graduated from Blum in '16 and played all 6 years of Jr and High School, so I know quite a bit about the game but probably not as much as some of you older fellers know. My question is, has any 6 man team ever used 11 man schemes or principles with any kind of success? It seems like every team in the state runs the same old tired formations T, Strong Right, Diamond spread or some slight variation of the three. It seems to me that with the wide open field and all the space available that certain 11 man schemes would work very well. I'm thinking mainly about west coast style offenses here, with lots of play action passes and short crossing routes across the middle of the field ran mainly out of pistol I with either a fullback, a tight end or a wide receiver split out towards the sideline. Of course the running game would have to be well established for this scheme to work, as we saw with the Cowboys on Sunday lol. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but it just seems like 6 man is missing the innovation that is seen at the collegiate and pro levels.

If you think that T, UNB R/L are tired and old you probably need to spend more time learning blocking schemes.. there's alot of great stuff being done out there. Happy does some awesome stuff, RS goes between tight and gun.. BC has adapted a Right offense all to gun.. and that's just to name a few (hadn't even got to Balmorhea, abbott, crowell and many many others)

 

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Okay, I have a question that I hope somebody with a lot of experience in 6 man can help out with. I graduated from Blum in '16 and played all 6 years of Jr and High School, so I know quite a bit about the game but probably not as much as some of you older fellers know. My question is, has any 6 man team ever used 11 man schemes or principles with any kind of success? It seems like every team in the state runs the same old tired formations T, Strong Right, Diamond spread or some slight variation of the three. It seems to me that with the wide open field and all the space available that certain 11 man schemes would work very well. I'm thinking mainly about west coast style offenses here, with lots of play action passes and short crossing routes across the middle of the field ran mainly out of pistol I with either a fullback, a tight end or a wide receiver split out towards the sideline. Of course the running game would have to be well established for this scheme to work, as we saw with the Cowboys on Sunday lol. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but it just seems like 6 man is missing the innovation that is seen at the collegiate and pro levels.

I am some one who played both 11man-4-9&12th and 6man-10&11 Grades and coached in 6man for a few years before going to 11man several years ago. I will say if I ever went back to 6man I would utilize a lot of the concepts from the "Nzone" system- created by noel mazzone. There definitely are certain routes that rip up certain coverages. In 6man I would say you see a cover2/3 traditionally out of 2-3-1 so smash and stick routes could do damage. I would make running bubble screens to multiple receivers a priority and when in doubt throw the slugo. On the flip side of all of this is Vance Jones who uses veer principles and 11man principles in his running game too.

 

[cozmo cramer]

wow there is alot of 111 man knowledge and some very good schemes being talked about but at the end of the day, It helps to have your Johhny's and Joe's (YOUR STUD ATHLETES) and every now and then a cletus (someone who will knock snot from you).

I understand we're talking schemes and hypothetically having studs.

but a Patton springs running these schemes vs a Borden County ain't gonna work

 

[coachsatcher]

wow there is alot of 111 man knowledge and some very good schemes being talked about but at the end of the day, It helps to have your Johhny's and Joe's (YOUR STUD ATHLETES) and every now and then a cletus (someone who will knock snot from you).

I understand we're talking schemes and hypothetically having studs.

but a Patton springs running these schemes vs a Borden County ain't gonna work

But sometimes, a new scheme can change the overall competitiveness of a program and allow schools/players who were never competitive with traditional powerhouses, to at least have a chance and remain relevant.

 

[cozmo cramer]

Coach Satcher you are 100% correct and I agree with that but once you get your transfers (Jimmy's and Joe's) you will become even better.

Everyone has schemes and the better your talent level, the better the scheme will look.

I look forward to seeing High Island Air Raid vs Union Hill sixman knowledge.

 

[CleverUsername1]

Thanks for all the great replies. Coach Satcher you described exactly what I was thinking. Of course traditional offenses like Strong Right and T work when you have a bunch of all-state and all-region players like some of the teams mentioned in this thread like Abbot. But when you have a roster of average players you have to get creative if you want to find success because trying to score by running the ball down a physically superior team's throat isn't going to work. It's a coach's job to find any advantage possible to help your team win. If that includes straying from tradition and incorporating "fancy" 11 man principles into your offense, why not? There's always a competitive edge to be found in every sport, you might as well be the one to take advantage of it, but what do I know lol?

 

[CoachTJones]

We run some 11 man based stuff out of what we call Speed Gun. Pretty much T gun with the FB pulled out as a Slot type receiver opposite of the remaining back. We run some Mesh type routes and wheel routes with FB/RB.

 

[pistol]

Thanks for all the great replies. Coach Satcher you described exactly what I was thinking. Of course traditional offenses like Strong Right and T work when you have a bunch of all-state and all-region players like some of the teams mentioned in this thread like Abbot. But when you have a roster of average players you have to get creative if you want to find success because trying to score by running the ball down a physically superior team's throat isn't going to work. It's a coach's job to find any advantage possible to help your team win. If that includes straying from tradition and incorporating "fancy" 11 man principles into your offense, why not? There's always a competitive edge to be found in every sport, you might as well be the one to take advantage of it, but what do I know lol?

My point was there was nothing "old" or "tired" about those tight offenses.. and yes there is a lot of crossover with 11 man principles.

It is whole lot easier to incorporate 11 man stuff into 6 man offenses.. and I think there are lot coaches out there that do that. The area I think where it doesn't work as much is on defense.. 11/6 man defenses are more different.

 

[Jay's_Mom]

I think that 11 man defense is visible in the 6 man world. Whether you have teams running man, cover 1, cover 2 or cover 3. I have also seen D lines run slants, in-fires and out-fires. It really just depends on who your defensive coordinator is, the style they bring to a program and who they have learned from. Minus the number of players on the field your Linebackers (or corners as some dub them in the district meetings) have to be multi-talented in that they are responsible for 2 roles (Line backer and Corner). Not to start an argument but to the right eye the game is the exact same minus a few rules and field size.