6 man field

[Texas Aggie]

I am on the parks and rec board of a DFW area city (I'd rather not disclose which one right now) and MAY introduce a proposal to "build" a 6 man football field around or near our current rec facilities. This seems like a decent place to start some research.

Our city has one or more schools that play 6 man (forgive the mysteriousness -- don't want anyone to read part of this, get the wrong idea and start making phone calls) and other schools in reasonably close proximity that play and have, in my view, poor facilities. I would also be interested in having something that might attract playoff games and perhaps a DFW version of the Hico shootout Saturday (even if on a smaller or private school level). This query is primarily aimed at Coaches or ADs that might consider a site for some or even all of their games or those that are affiliated with schools and in the know.

For the sake of the questions, assume the field will be built for 6 man football, with 80 yard goal lines and proper placement of goal posts on both ends. Also assume aluminum fixed stands rather than concrete, stadium type stands.

1. What would be the minimum "structure" (if you will) for something that you would consider playing your games at -- even if somewhat across town? In other words, what would you need in terms of stands, concessions, rooms, etc.?

2. Same question as 1, but answer for a playoff game -- mostly private and early round UIL games.

3. What would be required to build a worthy state championship/semifinal site for the private school associations?

4. How important would a press box be over an area clearly designed to be used by a timer and perhaps a few others but not enclosed?

5. If we were able to put in a couple of "locker" rooms, how big do they need to be? In other words, what is a decent sized 6 man team dressing these days and how many coaches?

6. I'm inclined to provide a small concession area and let the schools fend for themselves here. Perhaps an area that a trailer could pull up to if that's what the school has. Thoughts?

7. Do you think schools would be interested, if something they liked was available, to come play on a Thursday night? Saturday afternoon and evening?(i.e. not the regular friday night slot)

8. Let's say we had 5 prime time "varsity" slots each week: Thurs, Fri, 3 on Saturday (11, 3, 7 or something similar). What would be the best way to fill these slots if we had several interested schools? Higher fees for Friday and Saturday night? A draw? First come, first served? Other

Chew on this a little bit. Other comments welcome. We're not talking Shotwell Jr. but maybe something like Waxahachie city park built for 6 man with more amenities with a forward looking plan.

 

[51eleven]

Lifegate, have you found a wealthy sponsor?
You need a concession stand that serves frito pie with real shredded cheese if you really want them to come. Seriously.
If you've read this site much at all you know you opened the door for some real brain storming here. No idea is too outlandish. A covered stadium with lot's of port a cool fans would stay in use August (scrimages too) and September.
Lot's of roping arena's to the West that would almost hold a 6man game to use as a prototype.

 

[texashelmetproject]

This is coming from a guy who doesn't have a lot of experience with 6-man football, but I proposed 6-man football at Campbell and put the information together to get them to start football. The toughest part was finding a place to play because we couldn't easily play at TAMU-Commerce or another high school field because of the difference of set up. Fortunately for Campbell their baseball field was just large enough to fit a field into the out field. Unfortunately I have moved on from Campbell and don't get to see the new excitement about their football team. This is coming from a school administrators view point and someone who presented information to a school board about the expenses of having a football field, I will give you my views.

1. Call the schools that you think may use your facilities as their home field. Let them decide if they would play there and then build around their specifications. If they could play at your facilities for no fees any school would go for that. It should be more cost efficient for the schools. I wish more schools that were in close proximity would do this, less cost for the schools and nicer fields. The large districts with multiple high schools do this. When I lived in Edmond, OK three high schools and a college all used the same field.

3. Locker rooms, parking, press box, and seating capacity would be the biggest concern for a playoff venue. The largest expense you will be looking at will be the lights, locker room, and bleachers.

4. If you want playoff games and multiple schools using your facilities, I would think a nice press box would be a must. When I say nice, several rooms two for coaches, one for scouts, one for media, and one for timer (five total) and a balcony for schools to film. When I say nice, I just mean the space, it can be built with metal/tin/wood (I'd insulate though). Windows and AC is a MUST, but you can just put AC window units in each room on the back of the press box.

5. I don't know about size, but I would go with four locker rooms so you can play two games in one night and start the second game soon after the first. You don't want to have to wait for one team to get out of the locker room before the next team can even start to get ready for the next game. Anywhere from 2 to 4 coaches.

6. My thoughts on the concession, have your parks and rec do it. You will raise a lot of money, but then again your schools that use it for a home field may want to do their own concession.

7. Yes, their are many Saturday afternoon games and I think it may be because of the light issue. I'm not sure what the electricity cost is to run the lights.

8. Don't charge your schools to come play. If you do, they won't come. Tell the schools they use your field for free. The Parks and Rec will collect gate and concession. The Parks and Rec will pay the officials out of gate and concession. You may not get to dictate gate as some districts set a gate fee for district games. Charge schools though if it is a playoff game, all regular season is no charge.

I ran the youth league last year at Campbell too. We played at Lone Oak's old field. We brought a trailer for concession. We had three games a 1st-2nd grade game, a 3rd-4th grade game, and finally a 5th-6th grade game. After paying $425 for officials for all three games we profited anywhere from $800 to $1200 each weekend. Our gate was I think $3 adults and $2 students. Obviously for high school games you will charge more. Our concession prices were relatively cheap too.

I think you would be talking a good estimate of $750,000 and that may be a little low.

 

[freeagent]

My comments ... and take them for what they're worth ...

1. What would be the minimum "structure" (if you will) for something that you would consider playing your games at -- even if somewhat across town? In other words, what would you need in terms of stands, concessions, rooms, etc.?
I guess the largest crowds I've seen for private school games would seat about 1000 or so; obviously public school games seat more. A large concessions stand would work; press box large enough to handle 2 sets of coaches, announcer/clock operator, film crews (2 teams) and broadcast facilities (radio/tv/internet). Adequate rest rooms and perhaps a first aid/training room.

2. Same question as 1, but answer for a playoff game -- mostly private and early round UIL games.
Larger capacity. UIL strongly recommends a fence around the field for security.


3. What would be required to build a worthy state championship/semifinal site for the private school associations?
Adequate seating, locker rooms, parking. Although I don't think they have one, having a "hospitality room" for visiting coaches would be nice but not required.

4. How important would a press box be over an area clearly designed to be used by a timer and perhaps a few others but not enclosed?
Weather issues are always a concern with rain, etc. and cold weather. For a "top notch facility" and if you're asking what the ideal facility would be, I would prefer an enclosed facility.

5. If we were able to put in a couple of "locker" rooms, how big do they need to be? In other words, what is a decent sized 6 man team dressing these days and how many coaches?
I'd make the locker room able to handle 30 kids with an attached training room and an office/film room for coaches.

6. I'm inclined to provide a small concession area and let the schools fend for themselves here. Perhaps an area that a trailer could pull up to if that's what the school has. Thoughts?
That's a good way to start; depends on financing but a permanent concessions stand works best. But if you run the concessions stand it takes away a source of income from the home team.

7. Do you think schools would be interested, if something they liked was available, to come play on a Thursday night? Saturday afternoon and evening?(i.e. not the regular friday night slot)
It will really depend on the cost. Problem is that even at $5 or $6 a head and our own field after you pay refs, the EMS and the sheriffs deputy, we're lucky to break even at the gate.

8. Let's say we had 5 prime time "varsity" slots each week: Thurs, Fri, 3 on Saturday (11, 3, 7 or something similar). What would be the best way to fill these slots if we had several interested schools? Higher fees for Friday and Saturday night? A draw? First come, first served? Other
I'd charge highest rate for Friday night, and lower on other times.

Chew on this a little bit. Other comments welcome. We're not talking Shotwell Jr. but maybe something like Waxahachie city park built for 6 man with more amenities with a forward looking plan.

If you expect to play multiple games, you almost have to think about turf vs natural grass (again, increasing cost). Seriously, I would tell you to look at making the field an 11 man field perhaps with a sixman field inside just to make it economical and open up opportunities for youth (pee-wee) leagues. A natural grass field is also expensive for maintenance (irrigation, upkeep, etc.) and is going to get a beating with multiple game use.

This Friday, we're going to play a team at a field used for multiple youth leagues in San Marcos (they draw from about a half-dozen area communities). I just talked with a HS 6-man coach who is moving some of his home games from there (there are three 6-man high school teams and four 6-man junior high teams using that field along with many youth 11-man teams which use it for games and some practices). He told me that the field is in pretty bad shape just from the overuse even though the operators of the field (a non-profit police league) do the best they can.

Oh, and I'd add an all-weather track and (forgive me please for saying this, but it makes the joint useful in the off season) make it soccer-friendly. Yuck. Now I gotta go take a shower.

Of course, what I'm talking about with stands, facilities, turf, lights, scoreboards, etc. is going to cost a couple million dollars or more. Maybe the folks around Allen ISD have a few bucks left after their new joint ...

 

[Shane]

Visit Zephyr, Trent, Hermleigh and some of the other new turf 6-man stadiums in West Texas for ideas if you want to attract playoff and/or state championship games.

 

[Texas Aggie]

estimate of $750,000

Some real good comments, but you've constructed Shotwell Jr. and that's NOT what I'm talking about.

Just FYI: the only way this works is to take current city property that's being used for similar purposes (football, including flag and pee-wee, and something like ultimate frisby) and just beef it up a little. The building with the locker rooms would have to serve as M/W restrooms on normal league nights but be functional enough to be used as locker rooms for 2 six man teams. (Hint: lots of locked doors).

Finally, take your green eye shade off (I admit that is tough for all of us who are business minded). This is NOT a profit center. You have to think in terms of something that benefits the city that can also be used for the purposes described here.

 

[Shane]

Nothing wrong with what you are talking about at all. I was just saying that you'd need to build something bigger and better than a nice city park field to attract state games. No offense meant.

 

[51eleven]

You want UIL playoff games, you need locker rooms. A couple at least. TXHelment has much more expertise than I. But I think you could build a decent facillity for a bit less. You do need a decent press box if you want ANY coverage of the games. Kids like to see they're name in the news. Parents, friend's etc. do too. Could be significantly smaller to start with. One room w/dividers - coaches at opposite ends. If you might pretend to lure the Guru consider a back table with home cooked food, chili, venison chili, pies (hey I'm just dreamin' Im Granger). Wifi should be a priority too if you want real coverage/attention paid to the games. The press box should have a/c & heat but could be built out of 2 X S' & metal siding. With volunteer labor and sponsorship (must be 1-2 enthusiastic well to do dads around, or, have a cakewalk).

 

[Texas Aggie]

A press box of some sort is probably workable. And a covered area with tables is not a bad idea. Several uses for that one.

Wanting to minimize building costs, one design would be to build out locker rooms under the home stands with the press box part of that building and the stands around/over it. 2 issues come to immediate mind: first, ADA requirements for 2nd floor (PB) access and second, visitors' access to concessions, which would be part of that building. I hate to be pessimistic, but the chances of the city building 2 permanent structures is zero and the chances of a second floor on one is near zero.

 

[51eleven]

Press box has to be elevated. As far as visitors access to concessions... this is sixman. Any stadium you visit you walk around the endzone for concessions or the bathroom.

 

[bulldawgs]

Identify schools or teams that will use the facility and rent it out. I am sure some team will have no problem paying a reasonable fee for the use of the field. There are several teams, ours included, that have decided it is cheaper to rent a field for 5 or 6 weeks out of a year than to build and mantain one. Parking is important along with adequate seating. Locker rooms that lock are a must (for playoffs, 4 is ideal since many leagues will have a full day of playoffs going). The field must have adequate lighting if you are hoping to host playoff games. Finally you must have an elevated press box so you can film and call the games. Oh and as simple as this must sound.. a working score board.

 

[Texas Aggie]

I know the press box would need to be elevated, but it would probably need to be at the top of the stands rather than a building surrounded by stands. There are ways to do this so it doesn't look like a treehouse we all built or used when kids. Plush is probably out of the question, but functional isn't.

The more I think about it, the more I think 4 locker rooms may be do-able. They could be used as storage for field equipment and other things when not in use. What I need to know is how big they would need to be. And we're talking concrete, hooks, and dividers rather than lockable lockers.

Good comments.

 

[texashelmetproject]

I would have the press box in conjunction with the bleachers, much like the 1A and 2A schools have. If I remember correctly when I was doing research for the costs of building a field, that you may even be able to purchase aluminum bleachers with a press box included.

Press box http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/products/press-boxes

Elevated Bleachers http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/products/alum-a-stand

I think there are two pretty reputable bleacher companies in Graham.

As far as locker room set up, I think hooks and wooden frames would be sufficient.

 

[barny75070]

Hey Aggie- Happy to discuss offline- We are an Independent 6 Man team here in Dallas and play our games at a City Park currently- Would welcome the chance to discuss any ideas that you have as we are looking at options, and frankly can't come near being able to afford what most of the ISD's around this area charge to rent their fields that are properly set up for our games.

Mark Baker
CHANT Chargers
[email protected]