Jerusalem as the Capital

anything else?

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Re: When will we have Football?

Postby oldergoat » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:22 pm

TopHer – I am not a Biblical Scholar by any means however simply based on my Christian believes I am going to respond to your questions as I understand them. I will say this that I am a Christian and have placed my Faith in the fact that I believe Jesus has forgiven my sins and I will be in Heaven with Him some day. I also believe that the King James Version (KJV) is the true and complete word of God.

1) Does Israel under Jewish control even suppose to exist? The Muslims held that land for 1,000 years prior to the end of WW2.
God promised that the Jews would have a homeland and this was their home land before the Muslims occupied it. How long they have held the land is not relevant to the discussion.

2) What purpose does Trump have in recognizing Jerusalem which is one of the most contentious cities between Jews, Christians, and Muslims

That is something I am can not answer because I do not pretend to know what another individual is thinking.

3) Do you know that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same God? Jews call him (one of a few names) Adonai, Christians "God", and Muslims "Allah".... but it is the same God. And yet these three groups have been for 1500 years killing each other over this fact thinking that God is going to choose a side as a favourite?

The difference is that Christians believe that Jesus was God’s only son and that He was God in the flesh. Allah was a man not a god. The Jews on the other hand do believe in the same God as Christians but do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

4) If we all believe in the same God, why can't we all get along? Jerusalem is a sacred city for our 3 sects of religion. Why is it that we can't share it?

God never said we would all get along.

5) Do you know that the second most sacred prophet in Islam after Muhammed is Jesus Christ? Yes, Muslims believe that Jesus was one of hte most important prophets in history but they do not believe he was the son of God.

And there in is a real problem. Christians believe Jesus IS the son of God not just one of the prophets.

6) Jesus was born and died a Jew. He was NEVER a Christian. Christianity sprung out after his death and without the work of St. Paul, our faith would have died probably before the first century ended. St. Paul brought the Christian faith throughout the Roman world with great risk to own self. Had that not happened, Christianity would have fizzled out in Judea where Jesus lived his life.

You are correct about Paul and the important roll he had in the Christian faith. I so not believe Paul was a Saint.

7) Do you really think that Donald Trump knows any of this?!?!?

I believe that if someone tells me that they are a Christian and have placed their Faith in Jesus Christ and that He will forgive their sins both past and future it is not for me to question their statement.

8) Go ask Steven J. Friesen at the University of Texas about any of this ....
https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/rs/faculty/sjf365

Go ask my Pastor at my local church. I have more confidence in his knowledge of the Bible than a professor at the University of Texas.
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Re: When will we have Football?

Postby oldergoat » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:35 pm

topher800 wrote:
Texlonghorn75 wrote:
topher800 wrote:If you truly did question what you read and hear, you wouldn't support that overgrown, orange child running the show in the White House.

What do you say to this article then? :https://bibleprophecy.wordpress.com/2017/12/06/trump-recognizes-jerusalem-as-israels-capital/


In order to divert traffic Texlonghorn75, I have posted a message here with your link.

http://sixmanfootball.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32221

I hope that you have some understanding of the history of Israel from antiquity onwards. I dated a Jewish girl for 3 years during my college years and have dated a Muslim girl. Being a white, Christian Canadian, as you can imagine, that posed all sorts of problems with their respected families. Further, I studied theology at university (a non-Bible college sort) and have taught it so I hope you can appreciate things like the Gospel of Luke and Matthew plagurized from the Gospel of Mark which was written first and that there is a lost Gospel called by biblical scholars "Q" which Matthew and Luke more than likely obtained their stories not found in Mark.

But hey, let's chat about Israel.


Not so much about Israel but..............

I did not study theology while in college (state supported). At that point in my life I was not attending church and was for sure not a Christian.
But I believe that we have the complete word of God in the KJV Bible. I believe that every word was written by the individuals as inspired by God. I do not believe your assessment that Luke and Matthew plagiarized the Gospel of Mark. And there are no other works (or lost gospels) that were left out of the Bible.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion same as all others who choose to post on this site. I am not stating your opinion is wrong. Just the simple fact that I choose not to agree with it and will express another opinion. God Bless
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Re: When will we have Football?

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:41 pm

Fair enough :) But to say "Go ask my Pastor at my local church. I have more confidence in his knowledge of the Bible than a professor at the University of Texas" is.... well. I highly doubt that your local pastor has a better grasp than a man who has his Ph.D in Theology specializing in the New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard. But then again, I could be wrong. What's the name of your church and local pastor oldergoat?
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Re: When will we have Football?

Postby jsdesqtx » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:25 pm

oldergoat wrote:
topher800 wrote:
Texlonghorn75 wrote:
topher800 wrote:If you truly did question what you read and hear, you wouldn't support that overgrown, orange child running the show in the White House.

What do you say to this article then? :https://bibleprophecy.wordpress.com/2017/12/06/trump-recognizes-jerusalem-as-israels-capital/


In order to divert traffic Texlonghorn75, I have posted a message here with your link.

http://sixmanfootball.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32221

I hope that you have some understanding of the history of Israel from antiquity onwards. I dated a Jewish girl for 3 years during my college years and have dated a Muslim girl. Being a white, Christian Canadian, as you can imagine, that posed all sorts of problems with their respected families. Further, I studied theology at university (a non-Bible college sort) and have taught it so I hope you can appreciate things like the Gospel of Luke and Matthew plagurized from the Gospel of Mark which was written first and that there is a lost Gospel called by biblical scholars "Q" which Matthew and Luke more than likely obtained their stories not found in Mark.

But hey, let's chat about Israel.


Not so much about Israel but..............

I did not study theology while in college (state supported). At that point in my life I was not attending church and was for sure not a Christian.
But I believe that we have the complete word of God in the KJV Bible. I believe that every word was written by the individuals as inspired by God. I do not believe your assessment that Luke and Matthew plagiarized the Gospel of Mark. And there are no other works (or lost gospels) that were left out of the Bible.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion same as all others who choose to post on this site. I am not stating your opinion is wrong. Just the simple fact that I choose not to agree with it and will express another opinion. God Bless


Actually, the Bible, as we know it, more specifically the NT, is an agreed compilation of letters (what we now call "books"), that were agreed to be the inspired writings were confirmed by a "church council" in the late 4th Century. Although there are a number of writings that people claimed to be inspired, it was the writings that were generally accepted that became the books of the NT.

Personally, I believe that the NT contains all of the inspired writings that we are supposed to have and that the Holy Spirit led those who confirmed the books in the NT to such conclusion. Otherwise, there would be less meaning and authority in the NT, if not all writings were included that should be in there.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Yes the various councils through the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries did lay down the canon we know today... unfortunately, Dan Brown and his fictional book The Da Vinci Code misinterepted the Council of Nicea as being the be and end all for our Bible today. The writings we have in our Bible are considered by virtually all Christian denominations to be inspired however how they are read is a different story. Some Christians read the Bible literally and others contextually. Most books were written in ancient Greek which have been translated into into English. Furthermore, Jesus spoke Aramaic which is pretty much extinct today outside of parts of Syria. For example, Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" found in Matthew 5 which contain the Beatitudes. Jesus spoke the Beatitudes to his believers in Aramaic. The earliest known fragments of our Gospels were written in ancient Greek. So in order to get the Beatitudes, we have gone from translating Aramaic to ancient Greek to English. How can we certain that there wasn't something lost in translation? Can we as 21st century Christians really think that we understand the beauty and complexity of the original teachings? I know many Christian denominations take a contextual approach to the Bible were they understand that translation is an imperfect art and therefore look for the meaning/message instead of a literal understanding. That doesn't even begin to address the issue of the time period between Jesus' life and when the Gospels were first written... a span of nearly 15-20 years.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:16 pm

TebowTime15 wrote:The Bible also says slaves should be released after seven years or once they pay their debate off. It was more of an indentured servitude than New World slavery. Not making excuse for it, but let's give context.

I think what the Bible says about Israel is secondary to giving the Jews their own state after the horror of World War II. I guess we could have turned Alaska into a Jewish country, but it made sense to make it part of the post-World War II end of colonization movement. To add context, the Vietnam War was directly a result of French not giving up on their colonization. There has never been a country called Palestine. I just don't see what we need to talk about unless your Helen Thomas kind of person.

You should read the book I recommended coach about FDR. I know a lot of conservatives do not like the New Deal, but his willingness to help the Soviets gave them the resources necessary to start industrialization, which fueled them during World War II. Senator Harry S. Truman thought we should turn the "resources spicket" off as the Russians started moving the Nazi west. Basically, let them kill each other yet ensure Germany does not win.

There are reasons to criticize Trump. You and others are entitled to the opinion, but no one is entitled to make up facts. I appreciate you acknowledging he is not Hitler, as crazy that would have sounded a few years ago.

We've gone over the COVID stuff. While I'm happy Canada is doing well, I think Trump has handled the COVID outbreak just fine.


I don't think the Jews would have enjoyed the Alaskan experience. French-Indochina... well the French really aren't good at winning wars and had zero help in that region during the 50s so the result was never doubt that the local population was going to defeat the French. I will look for that book on FDR, thank you sir! :)
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby JasonTX » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:43 pm

I'm beginning to think that Canada doesn't have message boards.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:50 pm

JasonTX wrote:I'm beginning to think that Canada doesn't have message boards.


lololol they are all still frozen! Thank you for that Jason, I burst out laughing when I read your message :)
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:17 pm

Topher800, My post was to point out that Trump's decision to acknowledge Jerusalem as Captial of Israel was the fulfillment of Bible prophecy according to Biblical scholars. The article I referred to stated that the combined United States congress had already approved this acknowledgement but subsequent presidents failed to follow through for various reasons. Trump knew he would take a lot of heat for his action but did it anyway. Argue that point if you wish but I find that amazing information. The Book of Revelations is an amazing compilation of the inspired word of God and is a must read. Revelation 1:3 : Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, for the time is at hand. Amen.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:24 pm

Where does it say in the Bible that Jerusalem was destined to be the capital of Israel? Even if it did say that, I can guarantee you it wasn't because Donald is a God-fearing Christian. Once again, I highly doubt he can find Israel on a labeled map. I'd gvie the man full credit if he actually was a practising Christian but there is nothing in the many, many, many years up to the point where he announced his intentions to run for POTUS that he was part of the faithful.

As for the Book of Revelation, that is one of many apololyptic texts which were written in ancient times. That's just one that the leaders of the Church in the known world went with in the 4th century... however your passage has nothing to do with Jersualem being the capital of Israel.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:38 pm

topher800 wrote:Where does it say in the Bible that Jerusalem was destined to be the capital of Israel? Even if it did say that, I can guarantee you it wasn't because Donald is a God-fearing Christian. Once again, I highly doubt he can find Israel on a labeled map. I'd gvie the man full credit if he actually was a practising Christian but there is nothing in the many, many, many years up to the point where he announced his intentions to run for POTUS that he was part of the faithful.

As for the Book of Revelation, that is one of many apololyptic texts which were written in ancient times. That's just one that the leaders of the Church in the known world went with in the 4th century... however your passage has nothing to do with Jersualem being the capital of Israel.

I can't judge Trump on his being a Christian or not so why can you? Revelations is a must read.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby topher800 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:11 pm

With regards to Trump, I think his track record speaks for itself. Cheating on his wife with that porn star can be one of many examples. But hey... maybe he has found Jesus and become a born again. If thats the case, I would have hoped his baptism would have been televised.

Apocalyptic writing was very popular in ancient times due to its "entertainment" value. I use the word "entertainment" not as we think of it today but more along the lines of something that piqued people's interest and that they wanted to hear in antiquity. The mysteries of how the world was going to end and of fire and brimstone punishment attracted great crowds of ancient people.
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:42 pm

Reasonable people can disagree on the interpretation of an old verse, but I think Donald Trump may have some divine influence looking after him. He's been targeted, called all kinds of name, impeached, had his appointments stalled, compared to a mass murdering pyscho, and still keeps fighting day after day. You can say whatever you want about him, but the bs about him wanting to be President for profit is crap. He could have made way more money with much less headache if he didn't run but keeps on trucking and amazingly wants to be reelected. I wouldn't blame him at all if he pulled a Lyndon Johnson in 1968 "if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve."

PS. Topher, Trump graduated from a pretty good college. You don't think they teach geography at the Wharton School of Finance?

Pss. Just out of curiosity, who cares if Luke and Matthew copied Mark? Divine plagiarism still records the word of the LORD. What do you and your UT professor hope to accomplish with this theory?
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby FCSA football » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pm

Well, someone finally started a thread that will cause A LOT more contentious debate than Politics OR
RICHLAND SPRINGS !!!!!!!!
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Re: Jerusalem as the Capital

Postby smokeyjoe53 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 pm

FCSA football wrote:Well, someone finally started a thread that will cause A LOT more contentious debate than Politics OR
RICHLAND SPRINGS !!!!!!!!

We could interject a little sex to crank it up if it starts to slow............
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