Mr. Trump

anything else?

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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:31 am

oldergoat wrote:Tebow,
In my research of Presidential elections in US this is my understanding of how the process works. If no one receives a majority of Electoral Votes then the individual States Legislatures vote. Each state legislature votes for one of the candidates shown on the ballot. Each state has One vote for President and One vote for Vice-President. As things stand now the Republicans control a majority of the State Houses.
I may be reading things wrong but have discussed this with some History/Government teachers (high school level) and this is how they understand the system to work.
If that is correct then Mr. Trump would probably be re-elected and poor little Nancy can't do anything about it. It is also possible to have a President from one party and a VP from a different party.


Topher, you did not understand oldgoat's post. If he's right, then Trump will win in the event of a tie.

To oldgoat: I was always taught a contested presidential election (IE: no one received 51% of the electoral college) goes to the House of Representatives, which would mean Biden wins since the Democrats control a majority there. After actually reading the text of the Constitution, however, I think you are pretty much right. While confusingly worded, it sounds like to me each state legislature votes for a candidate. If one candidate wins a majority of the state legislature, that candidate gets one vote. Thus, Trump would win something like 31 to 19. It also sounds like the loser, in this case Biden, is VP in the same way Jefferson was Adam's VP due to the 1796 election.

It has not come up since, I believe, 1876 with that super close election between Hayes and Tilden after the Civil War. Honestly, the left is going to lose their mind if Trump wins in this fashion. Keep in mind this only comes up if no one gets 270.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby oldergoat » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:22 am

Tebow The House would select the President with each state delegate having one vote. If the Republican states vote together then Trump would be President. Then the Senate votes for VP with each senator having one vote (total of 100). And VP Pence would still vote in the event of a tie because he is still VP. I think I read that the republicans now have 50 seats with the two in Georgia in a runoff. Also one of the Georgia candidates is the current senator so he would also have a vote. So again assuming (yes I know what assume does) the senate would vote for Pence and you will have another you would have another 4 years of Trump/Pence. All of this is set up so the "New" congress will have been sworn in and the voting is done before the "New" President is sworn in.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:21 am

Tebow: There isn't going to be a tie in this election. It is over. If the GOP had had any proof of widespread voter fraud it would have come up this week in the courts. It has not yet the President continues to tweet away baloney each day. While there is no law about conceding, even Crooked Hillary was man enough to phone Donald and begrudingly congratulate him. I cannot imagine how much seething anger she had after making that call in 2016! lolollol ;)

Trump is just a petulant child who can't grasp that he, of all people, got voted out by the American people.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:29 pm

Topher: It is nowhere near over. Fraud is just one path to victory. Buden hasn't even officially win yet.

Oldgoat: While you might be right about the difference between "state delegates" and "state legislatures," I think Biden has to be VP in this scenario because Pence did not receive any official votes for President. The 12th Amendment differentiates between VP and President, but the tiebreaker process does not and refers to the pre-12th Amendment process. Since the VP do not officially receive votes via the 12th Amendment, Biden is the only person left. The only way I'm wrong is if the 12th Amendment amends the tie breaker process. We basically agree.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:34 pm

The only way that Donald J. Trump can stay in power is if he gets state legislatures with GOP party control to assign their own electors, so-called faithless electors, and vote for him instead of what the people's vote was... so states like PA, GA, AZ, etc

To get Trump to 270 and another term in office would destroy American democracy because the states voting is not even close. Let them recount and audit all they want but it ain't going to happen. In 2000, the Florida recount gave Bush the White House by 537 votes. These are the numbers as of today.

Arizona - Biden +11,537
Georgia - Biden +14,057
Wisconsin - Biden +20,546
Nevada - Biden +36,866
Pennsylvania - Biden +53,825
Michigan - Biden +148,645

If Trump wants to get another term by getting faithless electors in GOP states to vote for him instead of Biden, he will plunge the country into chaos not seen since the 1860s. People need to ask themselves if they would start a civil war to support this man.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby oldergoat » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:12 pm

The way I am reading the information is that the House selects from the top 3 that received votes from EC. There are only two that will receive votes so it will come down to Trump or Biden. My understanding is that the EC is actually voting for President and Vice-President. So the Senate would choose the VP based on the individuals that received votes from EC witch are Pence and Harris. You would think that the 51 republicans in office at the time of the vote (new congress) would vote for Pence. Problem is that each individual senator cast one vote for VP and are under no requirement from their states.
The only way I see any of this taking place is if one or more states elections are ruled void. If the election in a state was determined (by SCOTUS) to be void then probably no one reaches 270. I don't even want to think about the kaos that would take place in that situation.
And the "presidential" election is not until Dec 14th. So at this time there is no reason for President Trump to even consider conceding the election.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:16 pm

You are right. Chaos would ensue if the SCOTUS started determining states that Biden won were void. He will never concede, it's not in his personality to do so. He has been surrounded by "yes" men his entire life and never learned that in life sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some. It's actually quite sad that a 74 year old man behaves like, as I said earlier this morning, a petulant child and doesn't see anything wrong with it.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby oldergoat » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:04 pm

You are correct that Biden has been surrounded by yes men his entire life. I agree Biden will never concede the election no matter what.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:19 pm

Really? Wow goat, I'm surprised you didn't bring Crooked Hillary into the equation! Oh wait, she actually made the phone call to concede... as for Sleepy Joe, I'm sure he has had "yes" men around him his whole life. I'd love to see an example of him acting like a petulant child tbh... maybe Breitbart or OAN has something. Solid choice for news those websites are! Much like Mother Jones! lolol ;)
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby oldergoat » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:46 pm

One of the better examples was Sleepy Joe never answering simple questions at Town Hall meetings and then suggest a contest of push-ups to see who the better man was. Allot like a 3rd grader telling a classmate that "my dad can beat up your dad". The push-up contest was as childish as anything President Trump ever did or said. And I didn't know you were personal friends with Mr. Trump before he became President. Since you "Know" what type people he employed you must have been close friends. You brought up Hillary not me.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:11 pm

Those are fair points about President-Elect Joe Biden. He definitely stooped down to Donald Trump's level during the town hall/debates. He should have kept it classy but he didn't. We can only hope and pray now that DJT has been shown the door, that the 46th President of the United States, Joe Biden, resists the temptation to be a petulant child while in office. America deserves better leadership than this current administration has and continues to demonstrate.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby oldergoat » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:02 pm

That would be presumptive President-elect Biden. He will not be the President Elect until the EC votes on December 14th. One thing that I wish the media, as well as everyone, would do is refer to people by their correct title. Joe Biden is not the vice-president, he is a former vice-president. Just like Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, Mr. Carter and Mr. Obama are not President they are all former presidents of the United States. Hillary Clinton is not Secretary either she is a former Secretary of State.
I did not like a lot of things President Trump did personally and his personality did rub a lot of people the wrong way, but I agreed with almost all of his policy decisions and those decisions put the United States in a much better position than we were in when he took office. I fear that all of his hard work will soon be reversed and we will find ourselves in a much worse situation than we are today.
I do not believe that Mr. Biden has the ability to develop ideas that will improve the country on a daily basis. In his 47+ years in government he has never been able to lead. He makes me think of the Freshman that started and everyone said boy he is going to be a really good player. Then his last game of his Sr. year everyone is saying I really thought he was going to be “that” player but just never really did anything.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:38 pm

Oldgoat: No, the VPs are picked by the party. The person with the second most votes, if Trump wins, is Biden. I agree with the rest of it.

Topher: While it's fair if you don't think Trump has a chance to win, the Supreme Court will make that determination based on the evidence.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby topher800 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:09 pm

Tebow: That's if it even gets to the SCOTUS. Not quite sure what evidence they could possibly provide but we'll see...

goat: That is the assessment that I have heard from my family in LA/MS. They are concerned about the direction of the country and Biden's four decades of mediocrity.

I do think that the country will be in a better position with its allies than it was under Trump. On the flip side, Russia was dealt with kid gloves during this administration. This has nothing to do with the whole 2016 election hullabaloo. Russia is not and never will be an ally. Not under Vladimir Putin any way. And they need to be treated as such.

Same with the DPRK. They outfoxed the current administion under Trump into a giant propaganda win. Bragging is an important part of politics and unfortunately for Donald Trump, the North Koreans used him to legitimize their regime. Fat Boy Kim musta been trained well as a youngster at Kim Il Sung University in the art of military diplomacy and I'm sure by his father and other high ranking DPRK officials. He knew damn well that nothing was going to come from the summits in Singapore and Vietnam other than one freaking huge PR event to broadcast back home in Pyongyang.
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Re: Mr. Trump

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:31 pm

I've got evidence for you: how about the fact Trump won Georgia with 95%+ of the vote in, yet Biden caught him down like a 100,000 to votes to take roughly a 100,000 vote lead. Can you explain this to me? Isn't it at least fishy!?
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