Can we finally admit....

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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:06 pm

FCSA football wrote:Hey man no criticism intended. This is actually one of the better threads in a while. Just my opinions and observations too. Never the less it’s never good to intentionally get slaughtered.
“It’s not smart to die for your country, it’s better to make the other bast - - -d die for his”
George Patton


No offense taken, I'm just enjoying the fact we can debate a "controversial" topic seriously and I respect your opinion. I just feel there are more advantages to one division than there are two. I've said my reasons and examples for one division and I haven't seen or read a good example from the "Pro-Split" guys other than 25 vs 104.5 which seems to be the only reason. I hate to keep using 2013 as an example but I feel like Follett and Grandfalls were cheated out of a one division
championship because of the division split. Wouldve been fun to see Follett, Crowell, Water Valley, and Grandfalls battle it out in the west.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby TebowTime15 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:20 pm

coachj25 wrote:So a team like Lohn who had 18 in high school last year and a team of 6 (5 boys 1 girl) in the same district as Water Valley. Excuse my laughter, because what you would see is more and more small schools opting out of football or you would have scheduling problems if they could not field a team. Then you would have the message board masters complaining about scheduling problems. When I started coaching in 6 man; I was in a 8 team district with Whitharral, Ropes, and Meadow. One of those team sat at home because we only took two to the playoffs. Originally we coaches thought we were going to take 4 to the playoffs when UIL made its change. I've coached in 4 team district where the 3rd place team was 8-2 and sat at home and the district champion was 6-4 and made it to the state game (they played a harder schedule)l People complained when we went from 1 to 2 teams going to the playoffs. With this new alignment rule things could get even hairier. I remember when you would go to the regional track meet and your little track team would compete against the 1A schools ( not a whole lot representation from the six man at the state meet ). Go to a power lifting meet and watch these kids compete against the 2A and 3A kids and watch them to try to earn to a top 12 spot to regionals (all three classifications are in the same division). Then watch them try to earn to spot to the state meet. Even though you might have the top 1A kid. They are put in the same classification as 2A (Oh well, so sorry).


Unlike Water Valley, Lohn has actually won a state title. I think Lohn beat Water Valley in a playoff basketball in like 2003. Leon Freeman made the playoffs numerous times with big D1 teams in the district like Eden, Lometa, Rochelle, and Santa Anna.

Have Water Valley and Lohn ever been in the same district?! There are so many sixman schools between them that I doubt it. Lohn has been in the east a few times.

Although I know things have been tough for Lohn, I would much rather play any of the schools listed above than D2 Richland Springs. I think the whole county, Lohn, Rochelle, and Brady, are having a hard time. A friend of mine told me Brady didn't have a JV football team last year; that directly affects Lohn because so many of their kids transfe from Brady.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:00 pm

txhsfb please say what you said in our PM regarding DECs and your example of district games with a 4 team district. I had never heard of it.

*Tebow... thank you again
Thanks for showing some history about Lohn. Whole point I'm trying to make is I dont believe the current split doesn't make sense. Follett should be in Higgins, Darazette (spelling), Miami, White Deer, Lefors, McLean, and either Groom, Hedley, or Claude, 8 team district right there.

Wish Fort Elliot didnt give up football and Wheeler-Kelton would start a team.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby jc_30 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:31 am

If they are going to do away with the split, then they need to drop the 1A/2A cutoff number from 104.9

If they are going to do that it needs to go back down to 85-90 to play 6man. When we won in 2013 GR had 28 kids in high school. We could of competed with anyone that year, but 9 out of 10 years you can't compete with 27 kids against a school that has 103. As long as they keep raising the number to allow schools to play 6man, the split is nearly a necessity.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby jc_30 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:40 am

videojoe wrote:Johnny South,
Yes, I DO want 25 students competing with 104.5 (if that's the way it has to be). I don't need to re-think anything. 6-Man football IS and SHOULD be treated as a separate sport from all of the 11-man schools. Who says that just because you suit up a team, you have to be competitive? There are still life lessons, life-long relationships, and the satisfaction of testing oneself that can be experienced by suiting up six players and competing.



The point of the split was because they were raising the numbers to play 6man. Like I said in my earlier post, if you are going to do away with the split then you need to drop the actual number back to 85-90. Sixman was intended for small schools who can't field a 11man team to be able to play football. When you have 35-45 boys out for football you should be playing 11man. Sorry that you don't have a JV, but that's the way it is. In y'alls opinion. But realistically, not everyone is going to be happy with the way UIL does things. If it was up to me,(which it's not) I would drop the number down 75 and make an 8 man classification with 76-104. And everyone over 104 plays 11man. That's just my two cents.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Superjrj » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:08 am

One division would just go back to the same reason those with 105 decided to play 6 man got tired of getting butts kicked against 165 kid schools. The lower numbers schools might just drop the football and elect to not play football at all. Scheduling is a problem in some areas but halfway fields can always be found and the travel is not much more distance than some schools in all the divisions. 6A to 2A. For a competitive chance it’s only reasonable to leave the two divisions as they are. There have been and probably always be inequality in divisions but reasonable decisions have to be made to allow for some level of competition. Almost every year there are teams in playoffs with only one win. And in years past some who had 0 wins in upper divisions. It would be unreasonable to take the top four teams in each district division to the playoffs as it would water down the playoffs but would give the kids in those 4 team districts a chance to experience the playoffs. The UIL makes money from every playoff game so it’s only reasonable to at least experiment the idea. The rural towns and schools are slowly beginning to become extinct and the school is the only glue keeping it there. If the movement is to destroy Div 1A then put them all in one division. Reasearch the 6A to 2A divisions and find equality in those!
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby One _pac2018 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:44 am

2 divisions is the best thing that ever happen to 6 man . I mean you have some teams that only have 6 kids . You can’t take 6 kids with population 100 to play a team like Calvert that prolly has 20 kids with a population of 2,000. Doesn’t make any since . 1 division would be ignorant! If your team is having trouble with cost and traveling then stop trying to get cup cakes . Because I know strawn Borden Richland McLean Milford and other power houses will play you at your home field any time . Due to the fact of no one wanting to play them . Put all of them in your schedule and you might get all pre season games at home ! But then again those teams travel well so might not be able to afford water and enough food to serve due to cost
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby TebowTime15 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:13 am

Aren't Richland Springs, Throckmorton, and Panther Creek the last 3 schools to win a merged state title?
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Coach Roach » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:18 am

There are solid arguments for both sides, but I disagree with the saying that it would be ignorant to do. It worked fine before the split in 2007, and we were able to witness some legendary games because of it.

I noticed everyone is somewhat putting this in a worse case scenario opinion. Not all teams have 6 players and not all teams have less than 30 in their school. So to keep using this reference is technically somewhat ignorant.

I agree the cutoff increase does make it more difficult for schools with less players to compete. At the same time, plenty of D2 teams prove that wrong weekly. That’s the beauty of this game.

This is obviously just my opinion, but I would like to go back to 1 division. It brings the best out of everyone. Regardless of division, a school with 6 players will likely have a rough year. Guthrie had a great team a few years back and now are one of the teams struggling to field a team. They’ve been there before. Teams have “down years” but they also have years where they can also have really good seasons for consecutive years.
Again just my two cents
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Coach Roach » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:19 am

TebowTime15 wrote:Aren't Richland Springs, Throckmorton, and Panther Creek the last 3 schools to win a merged state title?


Strawn and Calvert before them
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:33 am

One division is the greatest thing to happen to 6man. I would rather a team play seven different teams in their district and earn their way to the playoffs. This 25-104.5 argument and how unfair it is is just dumb. Again, we played in 8 team districts it in the early 2000s with 99.5 and it worked out fine. The best teams that earn it are the ones that deserve to go.

*I will say if the number for the cutoff keeps rising,(say 114.5 or 119.5) I would be in favor of 8 man being brought back and have the 6man cutoff at 75-85 as mentioned before
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby One _pac2018 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:34 am

Well my 2 cents says it’s ignorant but that’s my 2 cents . 1 division will never happen so it don’t even matter those days are over lol
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:01 pm

I have seen some real good ideas and arguments about the two divisions but none than would persuade the powers that cast the votes to change back to a single unified division. As far as the scheduling issues it would a smart move for the small schools struggling to keep their numbers up to schedule schools with the same issue twice each year, a home and home agreement, until the numbers improve. Such schools as Benjamin, Guthrie, Paint Creek, Trent and the list goes on could play each other round robin( if the drive time and expense works). It would allow them to compete on a more equal footing for more games each year and give their players a chance to improve against comparable competition. Just an idea but more games played instead of more cancellations has to be an improvement. I realize that injuries are a wild card but the coaches could make it work out to everyone's advantage.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby TebowTime15 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:13 pm

Coach Roach wrote:
TebowTime15 wrote:Aren't Richland Springs, Throckmorton, and Panther Creek the last 3 schools to win a merged state title?


Strawn and Calvert before them


Calvert beat Sanderson, PC beat Highland, not sure who Strawn beat, Throckmorton bwat Valley, Richland beat Valley and Rule twice. They are all D2 other than Calvert and maybe Valley.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:53 pm

Strawn beat Fort Davis in 2003. Richland Springs beat Valley in 2004 and Throckmorton beat Valley in 2005. Then two divisions of competition started.
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