Can we finally admit....

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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby FCSA football » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:34 pm

Something else to add to the discussion of multiple teams from the same District going.
You remove two very important Elements: Fate and Chance. Several years ago in the crowded field arena, a team with only two wins made the playoffs from a small 5 team district. In those first eight weeks, kids, really Good Players got healthy the team was back at full strength and sailed all the way to the State Championship game I believe. I know coaches that don’t care about losses or rankings. They only care that they qualify for the playoffs and are 100% healthy when the play offs start. That’s something that multiple teams going to the playoffs mean, that and more gate receipts $$$$, Which obviously is an intended consequence of that system.
Back to the original point, do you want playoff teams that have fought, suffered and overcome in a single team system, or a roll the dice lets just get there system.
Just asking..........
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Blue Bird » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:40 am

One division or two divisons, if you take 3 teams out of each district to the playoff system you are going to have byes in the playoffs. Byes are bad! I can live with any system as long as the byes are left out.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Kramer » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:05 am

The two divisions were discussed with ALL Superintendents and Coaches. From their the Superintendents took the advice of their present coaches at that time and it was voted to go with the two division format.

Uil sent out the proposal to ALL 6man schools and it came back with MORE IN FAVOR of going with two divisions.

Look at it this way, Marathon/Benjamin/Harrold has an enrollment of LESS than 24 HS students, while the larger schools such as Borden County, Garden City, Ira (only to name a few) all carry a JV team to go along with 16 to 18 players on their varsity squad. These school are pushing 90 plus HS enrollment.


Schools mvoing to 6man such as Irion County, Baird, Roby HAVE A CHOICE TO PLAY 11 or 6. Same as the Div. 1 and Div. 2 1A class.
You want what's best for your school/team. Schools with 20 students in HS will never compete with a school with 90 plus.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby FCSA football » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:51 am

Good points. I agree totally. A team with 7-8 really good players can make it if they have an injury free season which is rare. Otherwise a team with 18-20 good players will run that smaller team into exhaustion. I know that their are examples of the smaller teams dominance and championships, but what you don’t see or hear is the smaller teams (in numbers) being run out of the stadium much more often. I believe the “Texas Country Reporter” did a segment several years ago about a similar under maned 6 man team and their inability to finish the season because they started with so few. I don’t see how anyone can honestly believe that, in the long run, teams with historically low numbers can compete with teams that have 20-30 players.
Just saying........
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:33 am

[quote="FCSA football
Back to the original point, do you want playoff teams that have fought, suffered and overcome in a single team system, or a roll the dice lets just get there system.
Just asking..........[/quote]
Yes, I want all of that including blood, sweat ,tears in one division. It's not like it hasnt happened before and we took 2 teams to the playoffs in our 8 team districts. I added the 3rd seed because hypothetically that could happen. Just opening up a conversation I think is relevant to the sport. Apathy has grown which kills sports, media is trying to kill football. UIL watered down every division.

As far as the superintendents and coaches that voted for the split in the past, I wonder if they have changed their mind now. It probably sounded like a good idea back then but look at the results. It has watered down 6man in general, no one cares about a district championship anymore. How long ago was the split? 2007? Ok now and do the research on district games and playoffs for D1 and D2 before and after the split.
The split has created a stigma and that's not good for life in general. You cant run away your adversity all the time, sometimes you have to face the giant. (And sometimes you win).
But yes, I stand firm on my opinion bringing back 1 division for 6Man only with 8 team districts. Wish something could be done about it.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:38 am

Kramer wrote:The two divisions were discussed with ALL Superintendents and Coaches. From their the Superintendents took the advice of their present coaches at that time and it was voted to go with the two division format.

Uil sent out the proposal to ALL 6man schools and it came back with MORE IN FAVOR of going with two divisions.

Look at it this way, Marathon/Benjamin/Harrold has an enrollment of LESS than 24 HS students, while the larger schools such as Borden County, Garden City, Ira (only to name a few) all carry a JV team to go along with 16 to 18 players on their varsity squad. These school are pushing 90 plus HS enrollment.


Schools mvoing to 6man such as Irion County, Baird, Roby HAVE A CHOICE TO PLAY 11 or 6. Same as the Div. 1 and Div. 2 1A class.
You want what's best for your school/team. Schools with 20 students in HS will never compete with a school with 90 plus.


02 Fort Elliot, 2013 grandfalls, etc..
Not 6man but what about the giant killers known as the Phillips Blackhawks?
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Johnny South » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:40 am

Lbksixman, you want only one division, but do you really want schools with 25 students trying to compete with schools with 104.5 students? You may need to rethink this.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby swires » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:48 am

Exactly the point I was making previously. Why are Baird, Roby, Irion County, and Claude being discussed? Because they didn't have enough kids to play crowded field or they got tired of getting their butts handed to them. The same happens within the 2 divisions of sixman. Smaller number schools will not be able to compete with larger number schools, except on a few occasions where some stars or excellent coaches are involved.

I hope for the sake of our small communities that we will continue to be able to have sixman at all. I know that a lot of communities are dying off because of technology and a lack of jobs. I also know that folks in Austin have discussed for many years to force small schools to consolidate because of funding issues.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:19 am

Johnny South wrote:Lbksixman, you want only one division, but do you really want schools with 25 students trying to compete with schools with 104.5 students? You may need to rethink this.


Yes, it's already happened when it was a 99.5 cut off. Why is so hard to believe that D2 schools cant compete with D1 schools regardless of enrollment which is not the case. If you're in a school with 25 students in an 8 team district that's the cards you were dealt and try and compete. I proposed taking 3 teams to the playoffs to appease the D2 sympathizers even though a champ and runner up make the most sense. You have to admit it would make it easier for schools and coaches to schedule, traveling, and budgeting.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Johnny South » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:32 am

The 8 team districts are the only part that makes sense to me. But I've been preaching combining districts for several years. You will probably have about as much success with your "one division" as I've had with my "8 team districts".
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby pistol » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:34 am

LBK6manFan wrote:[quote="FCSA football
Back to the original point, do you want playoff teams that have fought, suffered and overcome in a single team system, or a roll the dice lets just get there system.
Just asking..........

Yes, I want all of that including blood, sweat ,tears in one division. It's not like it hasnt happened before and we took 2 teams to the playoffs in our 8 team districts. I added the 3rd seed because hypothetically that could happen. Just opening up a conversation I think is relevant to the sport. Apathy has grown which kills sports, media is trying to kill football. UIL watered down every division.

As far as the superintendents and coaches that voted for the split in the past, I wonder if they have changed their mind now. It probably sounded like a good idea back then but look at the results. It has watered down 6man in general, no one cares about a district championship anymore. How long ago was the split? 2007? Ok now and do the research on district games and playoffs for D1 and D2 before and after the split.
The split has created a stigma and that's not good for life in general. You cant run away your adversity all the time, sometimes you have to face the giant. (And sometimes you win).
But yes, I stand firm on my opinion bringing back 1 division for 6Man only with 8 team districts. Wish something could be done about it.[/quote]

Im curious to why you think no one cares about a district championship anymore.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:04 am

Johnny South wrote:The 8 team districts are the only part that makes sense to me. But I've been preaching combining districts for several years. You will probably have about as much success with your "one division" as I've had with my "8 team districts".


What would be the necessary steps to promote the idea of moving back to one division/8 teams? I'm curious to know if anything could be done at all.

Yes district championships dont matter anymore because it used to be a battle. It was like playing in a college fball conference. Preseason games and then the real test begins. I guess in a way they matter but youd have to consider if that district championships wouldve been won if theres no split. Making the districts larger makes district mean more when you win it, compared to winning a district championship with a 3 or 4 team district.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:22 am

Would be interesting to see a poll made for this discussion
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby pistol » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:01 am

LBK6manFan wrote:
Johnny South wrote:The 8 team districts are the only part that makes sense to me. But I've been preaching combining districts for several years. You will probably have about as much success with your "one division" as I've had with my "8 team districts".


What would be the necessary steps to promote the idea of moving back to one division/8 teams? I'm curious to know if anything could be done at all.

Yes district championships dont matter anymore because it used to be a battle. It was like playing in a college fball conference. Preseason games and then the real test begins. I guess in a way they matter but youd have to consider if that district championships wouldve been won if theres no split. Making the districts larger makes district mean more when you win it, compared to winning a district championship with a 3 or 4 team district.


Ill assume you just misspoke, or were just referring to your own opinion about "no one cares" .. you just don't believe they mean as much.. which is wrong in its own right as they mean alot and are on just about everybody's team goals to start the season. The split has been good for the smaller D2 schools, who can go in year in and year out and compete for these championships and then in the playoffs. What makes it seem bad is there have been some REALLY really good D2 teams over the last few years at the top of the division. I would argue those are more outliers than the norm
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Cline » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:05 am

bootleg33 wrote:Another flaw with the 2 division split is the fact that UIL counts total high school students instead of just male students. For example:

School A has 50 kids in high school, 35 of which are male.
School B has 75 kids in high school, 25 of which are male.

School A gets to play division 2 and dominates whereas School B must play Divison 1. It makes no sense to count female students when determining football divisions.



I don't think this has been real well thought out. If we only count boys for football are we then going to have 2 different counts(boys and girls counted separately) and risk boys and girls basketball, track, xc, etc being in different classifications? So much for saving on travel costs.

Also, many schools are not Title IX compliant (whether you like or agree with it is irrelevant). Are your schools willing to add a girls sport or cut a boys sport because if you are not counting the girls in your count then they won't be able to play football. Not a huge deal but it does come up, especially in smaller schools, from time to time.
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