Can we finally admit....

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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:34 pm

txhsfb wrote:You do know there is a different solution to the scheduling issue don't you? And it's a solution that doesn't require sitting around waiting for the UIL to do something they aren't going to do.

If scheduling non-district games is such a hassle and having more district games is desirable, then have more district games. Play your district playing every team in your district twice. In a four team district, that would give you 6 district games.

Their is no UIL rule governing how a district conducts district play. It is left to the DEC of the district.


But I believe only one of those games would count as "the district game?" If so, the non-district game would be more about not giving anything away or avoiding injury. If not, football isn't really able to handle 3 or 4 way ties very well.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:36 pm

swires wrote:I like the division split. Yes the playoffs are watered down. But it is very disheartening for a school with 10 or 12 kids on the team to complete against 30. There are some exceptions to the rule for sure but I would say for the most part, DII teams dont have the capability to play with DI teams. I played a whole heap of homecoming games in high school because the schools with 30 kids would destroy us with 12. Is it life? Sure. Did I survive? Sure. Would kids survive today? Sure. Would travel still be involved? Of course. We traveled 3 hrs I dont know how many times to play a non district opponent. If the the split is such a big deal, then I guess all the DI teams with 30 kids should have to play 2A crowded field ball and we will see how well they compete.

Fort Elliot '02 says hi, Follett '03 says hi. Fort elliot had 10 kids, used 8. Follett had 13-14 beats Valley who had 30 players on the field. 2013 Grandfalls says hi again, smallest enrollment in the state. You have to admit the numbers do and dont matter. It's the Jimmy's and Joe's your team has that can play. Thanks for your opinion even though I disagree with it.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby swires » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:43 pm

For sure, there are exceptions. I know you listed 3 off the top of your head but it doesnt happen that often. Joes and Johns are huge for sure.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby TebowTime15 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:10 pm

swires wrote:I like the division split. Yes the playoffs are watered down. But it is very disheartening for a school with 10 or 12 kids on the team to complete against 30. There are some exceptions to the rule for sure but I would say for the most part, DII teams dont have the capability to play with DI teams. I played a whole heap of homecoming games in high school because the schools with 30 kids would destroy us with 12. Is it life? Sure. Did I survive? Sure. Would kids survive today? Sure. Would travel still be involved? Of course. We traveled 3 hrs I dont know how many times to play a non district opponent. If the the split is such a big deal, then I guess all the DI teams with 30 kids should have to play 2A crowded field ball and we will see how well they compete.


In theory, I don't disagree with most of what you said minus one exception I will address at the end of my point. In my experience, however, the teams with 30 kids might have 45 in the high school while the team with 10 or 12 has 80 kids in high school. I know it sounds illogical, but Richland has been in D2 for about 10 years and always has TONS of kids.

I disagree about even suggesting someone should play 11-man. For one thing, sixman is a better game. Additionally, I feel sorry for the bubble schools that have to worry about going back and forth between 6 and 11 because converting the field is expensive, you have to get a new coach in most cases, learning both games is hard on the kids, and the community may have a strong preference for one over the other. Basically, I'm saying that there needs to be a higher level of scrutiny when switching between 6 and 11 man rather than 2A to 3A or whatever.

If the UIL wants to keep two divisions, I think the might be a solid solution:

-DII is the traditional sixman teams, current DI and DII, all in one division. The cut off is 105 I believe, I but will add a twist to this later.

-DI is "purgatory" and involves any school with an enrollment over 105 in the last 3 alignments. If you have 3 straight enrollments of over 105, you play 2A 11-man. If you have 3 straight enrollments of under 105, you play DII or "real" sixman.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:31 pm

Interesting take Tebow, I like it. One division and use the other as purgatory. I just believe there are enough teams now to make all 8 team districts and take 3 from each district to the playoffs. There were enough teams when I played to have 8 team districts with an exception of a few. I was fortunate enough to play wheeler when they were in sixman for their short stay. They beat us but we were not intimidated at all. They had around 30-40 kids playing compared to our 13.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby swires » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:54 pm

I feel what your saying. I was only using the point of bubble teams playing 11 man as an example. The reason most of the teams dropped to 6 man is because they couldnt compete at that level. I am saying for the most part the split between DI and DII 6 man is a lot the like the split between 2A DII and 1A DI. The numbers wont ever be perfect. Maybe the numbers need to be derived from just the number of boys you have in school. That would open a can of worms in our gender sensitive world!!! However, you could include any young ladies wishing to play in your numbers. As far as 8 or even 6 team districts with 2 teams, I wouldnt disagree. The exceptions are going to happen in West Texas. The original post was about weakened playoffs and travel expenses. I cant disagree with a lot of first round games with the 4 team districts. The travel is another story. Its a big state and travel is involved regardless of A's or divisions.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby LBK6manFan » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:07 pm

West Texas Schools will have to travel more but they could still have 6-8 team districts. They could play a district opponent twice for the non district games like we did with lefors and McLean when I played. It was all about costs/budgeting/scheduling. With one division, better competition in district and of course the playoffs. A district championship should matter like it used to. Plus teams cant run away from a scheduled team because they're afraid the other team. Forces the hand and makes scheduling A Lot easier for coaches.
*Plus a McLean vs Strawn rematch wouldve been awesome to watch last year if it were for the championship
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby BoomerSooner » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:05 pm

It would be nice to bring back one division. I live in a small D2 town where usually you can get into playoffs with 2 wins and one of the schools usually has to forfeit by district time. So most years you have to win one district game and you may have lost all of your non district
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby smokeyjoe53 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:26 pm

First I whole-heartedly support the 1 division and larger district concept. I would reluctantly support 2 teams from each district ( I would prefer only 1 team from each district) entering the playoffs but I’m an old f*rt who lives in the past.
Having said that, it will never happen. There’s too much money involved in the current system for the U.I.ofL to ever relinquish one penny of potential revenue .........
of course I may be just a tad cynical......
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby bootleg33 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:28 pm

Another flaw with the 2 division split is the fact that UIL counts total high school students instead of just male students. For example:

School A has 50 kids in high school, 35 of which are male.
School B has 75 kids in high school, 25 of which are male.

School A gets to play division 2 and dominates whereas School B must play Divison 1. It makes no sense to count female students when determining football divisions.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby T-boneisGood » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Watered down as a justification is not an argument to make. There are large masses of people that believe sixman is just watered down football. Fine by me, just leave my favorite game alone. However, if watered down is justification for removing something it becomes a problem for my favorite game. Watered down would also suggest we don’t need a classification system at all. Schools just play whoever is geographically closest because that way nothing is watered down the best teams will win regardless of enrollment. Things used to work this way and then it got “watered down” by dividing schools into classifications. Occasionally a Hoosiers will happen and we will know it’s the right way....sarcasm of course

I also played in the old days, 1 playoff team, but I don’t get why the fuss over more playoff teams. 2nd and 3rd rounds still sorts out the best ones.

Cynical Father Time above is also correct, there is no way we are going to see less teams. I wouldn’t be surprised a day comes when all teams go. Still I won’t fuss about that either, couple rounds will sort the best teams out to play.

Isn’t it just an absolute great life us Americans have where we can sit around and worry about the best way to handle our games? Much of the world is worried about having doctors and food for their children.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby smokeyjoe53 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:27 pm

I guess we could just get Oprah to go to all the games and hand out little plastic trophies........ “you get a trophy, you get a trophy, Everybody gets a trophy!!!!!!!!!”
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:33 pm

bootleg33 wrote:Another flaw with the 2 division split is the fact that UIL counts total high school students instead of just male students. For example:

School A has 50 kids in high school, 35 of which are male.
School B has 75 kids in high school, 25 of which are male.

School A gets to play division 2 and dominates whereas School B must play Divison 1. It makes no sense to count female students when determining football divisions.

The whole idea of male head count doesn't work either. How many of the males today are more into computer games, skate boarding, motorcycle sports and rodeo instead of old head knocking football. Richland Springs probably has every male student out for the team hoping to get that state championship ring, whether he can walk and chew gum or not. Strawn probably the same situation. Winners bring out participants out of the woodwork whether they should be playing or not. You are aware that in many of the non winning schools that a lot of the males students find other endeavors to participate in. Things have changed, in most schools it is not cool to play on a mediocre team. There always will be exceptions but many D! and D2 schools do not have a strong football culture anymore. So the male headcount thing is a mirage.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby Texlonghorn75 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:38 pm

I seem to remember that Marathon played a round robin schedule with their district out west years ago. Played each team twice, whether both games counted as district I do not know. Old Bearkat or Young Blackwell would have the answer to that question.
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Re: Can we finally admit....

Postby T-boneisGood » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:17 pm

smokeyjoe53 wrote:I guess we could just get Oprah to go to all the games and hand out little plastic trophies........ “you get a trophy, you get a trophy, Everybody gets a trophy!!!!!!!!!”


Ahhh yeah smokeyjoe, I didn’t think about the trophy thing. I’m not a fan of the green ribbon either. Perhaps the custom should be to win a couple playoff rounds before we get a gold ball. Before long schools will need to pass a bond to build a trophy hall at this rate.
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