Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Johnny South » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:45 pm

51eleven wrote: Strawn Did play non starters and jv players in I think every regular season game this year....


I figured with the number of players on the roster that Strawn would have played several JV games this year, but I guess not.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Jones26 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:03 pm

speedkills wrote:
2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.


It's also a disservice to your starters if you're up 35-0, and they've only played 10-15 snaps. It's a very tricky situation.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby coach_jshelton » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:20 pm

Jones26 wrote:
speedkills wrote:
2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.


It's also a disservice to your starters if you're up 35-0, and they've only played 10-15 snaps. It's a very tricky situation.



My thoughts about 45ing teams at the varsity level:

1) do you have a full JV schedule or not - and are your players able to play in their primary positions when they play JV?
2) if so, does the few extra reps for the less experienced part of your varsity roster outweigh the risk of injury - regardless of how many players are on your roster? (example: backup OL misses a block and starting TB suffers serious injury? In this scenario, HC becomes an idiot to the masses in a hurry if the injury hampers the teams ability to make the playoffs and/or advance.)
3) momentum swings in 6man happen quickly - is it worth it to extend the game and lose momentum - and potentially lose the game?
4) is your opponent getting "chippy" the longer the game wears on?
5) how long is your drive home? - important if you have a 2+ hour bus ride home & half your team has an XC bus call at 6am the next day
6) sometimes everything your team does goes "right", while everything for your opponent goes "wrong"

I've been on the receiving end of being 45'd more than I've been on the giving end. It's part of the game & everyone has their reasoning. I've never taken offense by it - each coach has to do what's best for their program.

Sometimes it can't be avoided, but I dislike it when a JH or JV game ends with the mercy rule - a lot of missed opportunity for development. At the varsity level, do what you gotta do IMO.

Of course Coach Jones, Coach Satcher & Granger all have valid points as well
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby coachbronk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:31 pm

This is not meant to seem rude...

It’s no ones business how coaches handle their teams but the coaches. Every situation is different and you can’t just paint it with a broad brush. I think it’s insulting to say that coaches give a crap about point spreads during the game. Yes, I know that rankings and point spreads make for good fodder during the week, but during the actual competition of the game, I’d say it’s a safe bet that 95% of the coaches don’t think about it.

In regards to 45’ing a team or being 45’d; our job is to score and keep the other team from doing it. If we don’t stop our opponent from scoring and don’t score ourselves, that’s our fault and if that means getting 45’d, well then we have to look in the mirror and fix the problem. This may sound cold blooded, but when we go into a game, our number 1 objective is to Win. If that means we win by a lot or a little than so be it. I don’t care, but I’m not going to go out of my way to stop or slow ourselves down. If our opponent can’t do it, then that’s a Them problem not an Us problem. My teams will always go into each game wanting to crush our opponent; it’s an either crush or be crushed mentality. Just like I don’t think about point spreads during the game, I also don’t think of my opponents feelings and I would expect them to do the same.

I think each game presents its own set of scenarios when it comes to when to play the younger kids and when not to. An example for us this past season, we played Union Hill in Week 8 and got polaxed. We didn’t play well at all. We came back the next week, cleaned things up and recalibrated what we needed to do. We played Chester the following week and were up 52-0 at the end of the 1st Quarter. The issue we had is that our offense had only run 6-7 Plays and we were going to be playing the next week in a Win and We Are In game so we needed more game reps but we also wanted to play the younger kids at some point. We waited until the 5:00 minute mark of the 2nd quarter and played the younger kids. Granted we have a roster of 16 so the majority of our kids already play but we have 2-3 who don’t play much.

My point my rant is that each coaching staff is responsible for their own roster and aren’t accountable to anyone other than themselves and their program. If we have 45 point mercy rule I place then we will use that rule whenever we can. With a roster of 16, it’s win and get out healthy; if that means 45ing someone then it means we 45 them and I won’t lose any sleep over that.

Just my opinion. Fire away...


speedkills wrote:I think there's two ways to look at this:

1) JV team - if your program is fortunate enough to have a JV team with a decent schedule of games for them, then let your varsity players get the work on Friday nights whether it ends as a 45 or not.

2) no JV team- if you don't have a JV team then you're doing your kids (and program) a disservice by not getting the younger guys on the field with a 35+ point lead. The benefits of getting those kids invaluable varsity snaps far outweighs 45ing someone with starters. Now if the younger kids are able to stretch the lead & finish the game with a 45, so be it & good for them.

There are some exceptions to this (like a district or playoff game against an opponent that is capable of recovering from a big deficit). But by and large most coaches have a pretty good feel for the situation. And hopefully as coaches the concern of whether we "cover the spread" or not doesn't outweigh doing what is best for the kids & long-term development of the program.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby speedkills » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:48 pm

Coach Jones, you are correct but let's look at that logically: if you're already up 35-0 after 10-15 plays then you'll be up 45+ after another 3-5 snaps. So your starters are not getting any appreciable extra work. To get them a decent quantity of reps in that scenario means committing to probably ending the game at halftime up 70+, and realistically they still might only get 25 plays.

A good scenario for an overmatched situation (up 35-40) is to utilize your younger guys on one side of the ball & leave your starters in on the other side. It typically extends a game that would otherwise end quickly & still gets reps for both groups.

Coach Shelton, that's a solid list of valid reasons/scenarios for ending it early.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Jones26 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:22 pm

speedkills wrote:Coach Jones, you are correct but let's look at that logically: if you're already up 35-0 after 10-15 plays then you'll be up 45+ after another 3-5 snaps. So your starters are not getting any appreciable extra work. To get them a decent quantity of reps in that scenario means committing to probably ending the game at halftime up 70+, and realistically they still might only get 25 plays.

A good scenario for an overmatched situation (up 35-40) is to utilize your younger guys on one side of the ball & leave your starters in on the other side. It typically extends a game that would otherwise end quickly & still gets reps for both groups.

Coach Shelton, that's a solid list of valid reasons/scenarios for ending it early.


As I stated, very tricky situation. The thing is, even after 3-5 more snaps and we are up 45....then that's still 3-5 more snaps we got. Yes, there are many ways coaches can (and do) get all players in, while still getting the starters their reps.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby TebowTime15 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:54 pm

I always thought the rule should be that the team ahead by 45 points wins the game but you keep playing to get other guys experience. I know some schools have a hard time puting 6 on the field, but sixman really hurts itself from a developmental standpoint by playing less than 11.

Satcher hit on a key point; the unwritten code of coaches in regards to when you do and do not 45 someone. I witnessed the coach of the losing team get mad because the coach of the winning team played his backups when he was 1 TD away from 45ing and his starters when he was 2 TD away from the mercy rule. I think the winning coach did it out of respect because he used to coach at the losing school. To be honest, it probably causes too much friction to even worry about. Seriously, it is like the coaches become high school girls fighting over a guy.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Leman Saunders » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:07 am

Unless the coaches association has changed it the 45 point rule has always been optional as was it's original intent, if both coaches chose before hand to not use the rule they could opt out of it. This however causes problems with record keeping and has generally been avoided since the 1960s.

I would think district committees would have to agree on it as a whole if they wanted to forgo the rule, but non-district games the two sides could agree beforehand to not use the rule as all non-district games are theoretically exhibition games anyway.

I understand the coaches that have posted responses and that they whole hardily disregard the idea that coaches look at and care about rankings and point spreads...it is not a popular opinion but I can assure you some coaches do and it does play a role in this...to what scale is arguable...but it does happen. I also dont like it, but like it or not it happens. That is the last I will say on it.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Leman Saunders » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:36 am

I think "back in the day" the main reasons for 45ing teams were weather and travel related...like Granger said the coaching pool was smaller and typically it was more personal I think from talking to old coaches, they didnt set out to 45 people if it happened it just happened.

Now days as I said there are a ton of factors, some great (injury awareness) and some misguided (ranking awareness). More teams playing and the division split are the major factors now with all other making up smaller percentages.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Blue Bird » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:20 am

In my opinion, a full or near full schedule of JV games are the biggest reason for a large percentage of 45's. If you carry 10 to 12 boys on your varsity, they will all have their positions and get the reps needed for improvement in the varsity games. If they aren't needed at the varsity level for some job they will be getting even more reps at the JV level.

Strawn was mentioned about 45ing people. I know for sure that they had at least two JV games during their year. And quite frankly, they had a RB on their JV that could have started for most teams varsity. Don't know his name or his grade level, but the idea that there were 2 and maybe more RBs better that him at the varsity level is a real eye opener! The real shocker is that I don't think any of the RBs graduated!!

Roddy Maddox was the best in the earlier days about getting all of the kids playing time without 45ing people. In those days it was nearly impossible to get a full schedule for your JV. If you were lucky you might get 1 or 2 a year. When he got a twenty to twenty five point lead he would pull off. If you were good enough to out play his second bunch he would put his first bunch in to maintain the 25 point lead. It made for high scoring games, led his opponants to think that with a break here or there you could actually beat Cherokee, it also led future opponants to underestimate just how good Cherokee was.

Leman, its not just the rankings that lead to the 45ings. Although its there, not just for the coaches, but the kids are aware of the rankings, the school board is aware of the rankings, and the community is aware of the rankings. Lots of pressure on a HC. Add to that the DC wanting to measure what he does by the lack of points scored by the opponant. So where or when do you play a game like Roddy did in the 70s and 80s. I truly believe he wanted the kids on both teams to have fun and feel good about themselves after the game. I fear that Roddy's style of game has passed us by.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Johnny South » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:18 am

To win by 45 or more should be every Coach's goal.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby just an ole hornet » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:44 pm

I played in the 70"s and there was lot's of 45ing going on then
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby pistol » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:54 pm

Something that would be interesting to see would be the percentages of 45s in 2017 as opposed to the 90s and 80s.. that would be a better indicator if there actually is just more teams getting 45d because there is more teams now
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby 51eleven » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:14 pm

just an ole hornet wrote:I played in the 70"s and there was lot's of 45ing going on then


Point well taken. It's not something new. Players like to score, it's fun to keep doing it if you can.
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Re: Why/when did 45'ing teams become so popular

Postby Edward Golden » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:31 pm

Jones26...I am sure you are a very respected coach but I can assure you that most coaches know where they are ranked. I have been around coaches for 40 years and many cannot wait for the Padilla poll, Harris Rankings, and Granger Report to come out and see the rankings.
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